Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

  • BTW- Harper Whitehouse (who is super smart btw) is of the opinion that this guy really pioneered the physics and mathematices they need to understand the LEC.

    Inside the Papers of Karl K. Darrow | American Institute of Physics

    It is rather intimidating to write about the papers of Karl K. Darrow. Dr. Darrow was a 20th century intellectual and lived most of his very refined life in Manhattan. He was a physicist, a prolific writer, a gifted and witty speaker, a world traveler, an ardent patron of the arts, a connoisseur of fine food, and a guardian of decorum and proper manners. Thus, were he to be displeased with any of this effort, he would not hesitate to let the writer know – most often with subtle humor and, at times, with more than a little sarcasm.

    The Darrow Papers are one of the broader collections in the Niels Bohr Library and Archives. While there is a great deal to satisfy any serious historian of physics, there is much to be learned and observed about what could be called the intellectual and/or cultural history of mid-century America and Europe. Some topics of interest include: everyday life and social interaction in Manhattan; women’s issues at the time of World War II and after; international travel, as well as travel throughout the U.S. at that time; the arts in New York including the New York Philharmonic, the Metropolitan Opera, Broadway theater, and saving Carnegie Hall in the late 1950s; Darrow family genealogy and correspondence, including a few letters of famed trial lawyer Clarence Darrow, who was Karl’s uncle....

    BTW- sadly the two links given at the bottom of this article are dead...

  • The results of Frank Gordon and Harper Whitehouse are the best proof of the existence of exciting LENR-related phenomenon that was still unknown. Nothing has been presented more convincingly for years. I was very happy to discuss of this it with Frank Gordon and Alan Smith during the ICCF 24.

    I encourage all experimenters to replicate and improve upon his results.

    Picture : Frank Gordon successful demonstration in the hall of the Computer History Museum during the meeting.

  • We regularly see gammas for cold fusion that of course do ionize gas. This indirect effect may produce charge if a proper media is used.

    NASA uses a C-14 battery that collects the beta electron that also produces an avalanche of charge. This of course is already a "commercial" application of a "lattice energy generator.

  • I had a brief conversation with Larry Forsley about the LEC. He was thinking that the conduction channels are being opened by thermionic emissions. Has this notion been explored yet?

    There is that possibility, I have thought about it and so have Frank and Harper. Work function via different materials and temperature vs output experimentation might help clarify that.

  • I had a brief conversation with Larry Forsley about the LEC. He was thinking that the conduction channels are being opened by thermionic emissions. Has this notion been explored yet?

    Thermionic emission would imply emission of electrons only. If so, the LEC would behave unidirectionally, like a diode. Instead it shows a very symmetric conduction capability. This imply that both positive and negative charges are present, and that there is no preferential emission from one electrode (i.e. most probably charges are created in the gas).

    Work functions are for sure involved in the generation of the voltage, but we don't know if they can affect the generation and amount of ionization. However, we will have some answer for both these questions: in the forthcoming weeks (months?) I will try to add some low work function elements during the co-deposition process (mainly calcium) and I also plan to scan an active electrode with a FLIR thermal camera (if hot spots will be present they may be responsible for a thermionic emission).

  • Frank has said that the present LEC is 9 orders away from producing 1 kW, which he called a "practical" level of electricity. That's a lotta orders! He thinks they can close that gap by a number of methods that he discussed in the presentation. However, I quibble with the idea that 1 kW is the lowest practical level. I think it is much lower. I wrote to him as follows --

    A hearing aid battery produces the most expensive electricity


    You mentioned that you need to increase power by 9 orders of magnitude to reach a "practical" level of 1 kW. That's not strictly true. Actually, far lower power levels are not only practical, they are extremely valuable. The most expensive electricity a person can buy is produced by a hearing aid battery. This is around 5 or 10 mW. They last about 5 days, so that's 1200 mWh, or 0.0012 kWh. You can buy that from the power company for $0.00017 (0.017 cents), whereas a battery costs $0.50, I think. That's 2,900 times more expensive per watt-hour. That is quite a heck of a market.

    A miniature LEC that produces 10 mW of electricity would sell like hotcakes at a huge premium. If it lasts for 5 years -- which I think is possible -- that would be the equivalent of 365 batteries, costing $183. Granted, you can get rechargeable hearing aid batteries for $10 each, but a LEC version would be more convenient and would probably last longer than rechargeable batteries. I think you could get at least $100 for it.

    There is a similar market for wrist watch batteries. They consume 10 microwatts. Your present LEC can almost reach that.

    There is a gigantic market for cell phone batteries. Cell phones consume 3 W at peak. A thermoelectric chip with a heat-producing cold fusion reaction would make the cell too hot to keep in your pocket. A LEC might be ideal.

    A cardiac pacemaker battery costs a fantastic sum of money. Power levels are 10 to 50 microwatts. A LEC would be an ideal power source, because replacing a pacemaker calls for surgery which is painful and can be dangerous, so it is better to leave it in place indefinitely. Of course you have to meet very high performance and safety standards, so it would take a long time to develop this and have it approved, but it would be worth millions. Over a million pacemakers are implanted per year. They cost between $4,000 and $6,000 each. Much of the cost is probably for the battery. I expect you are looking at a market worth $1 to $2 billion.

    So, anyway, when you present the LEC to venture capitalists, you should not say that 1 kW is the lowest "practical" level of power. 10 microwatts is a practical power level. Not only practical, but per watt, is it is worth thousands to millions of times more than power company electricity.

    - Jed

  • The point I am trying to make here is that people such as Brillouin and even Mizuno should stop thinking they must scale up before venture capitalists will fund them. If a venture capitalist tells you "you must produce 1 kW before anyone will buy this," he is wrong, and he does not understand the market for energy.

    The problem with today's experimental cold fusion devices is not that power levels are low. The problem is, they are not reliable. Power is not constant, and it cannot be controlled. If it could be controlled, and if the device could be miniaturized, it would have enormous economic value, and many practical applications. So, when you talk to venture capitalists, do not sell yourself short. You should not think that the only commercially valuable form of cold fusion will be in the kilowatt levels.

    Frankly, I wish the people at Brillouin and even Mizuno would grasp this fact. There is no need to scale up at first. What we need is control. Scaling down to microwatt levels might actually bring in a lot more money at first. Billions of dollars!

    Brillouin is wasting their time in any case. They should not even try to make it into a practical source of energy. That is not their job. If an industrial company becomes interested and starts to develop this in house, they will make more progress in one month than Brillouin would make in 10 years.

  • JedRothwell, I agree with you: even generating a small electrical power would be enormously valuable if it can be made reliable, long lasting and physically small. However, the latter attribute probably is hardest to achieve for many systems. You have physical constraints that do not allow to scale down dimensions. Probably you can power a smart watch right now with the BEC HHT+thermoelectric generator, but you cannot wear it on your wrist... :) So it is somewhat easier to scale up the power to circumvent this limitation (also because most LENR systems output thermal energy).

    The LEC (as well as few other systems) is somewhat different in that: the output is close to be practically useful and dimensions can be probably scaled down. It's a good option.

    I also agree with you that some attributes such as reliability, useful life, industrial scalability, are even more important than power level.

  • I agree with Jed: generating a power of the order of 1 microwatt is not ridiculous, since it is the power of a wristwatch or that of many electronic devices of everyday life. (Thermometer, fire alarm, calculator, etc.) Results showing and confirming Frank Gordon's observations as well as improving the results obtained were presented at ICCF 24.

    On the other hand, I do not think that this current is caused by the ionization of the gas by an ionizing radiation emitted by the palladium. Far too high dose rates would be needed, higher than those observed in the buildings of the Fukushima plant! You know that I was a molecular biologist before my career was broken into pieces by LENRs. So I propose a different explanation: according to me, the current in the Solid-State Fusion Diodes with hydrogen gas is produced according to a mechanism close to that observed in the solar diodes of Grätzel. In Grätzel dye solar cells, organic dyes are adsorbed on the surface of titanium dioxide nanoparticles stuck to a transparent electrode. The counter electrode is made of platinum. Between the two electrodes there is a solution of iodide ions. Organic pigment molecules capture light, and the excited form of the pigment oxidizes iodide (I-) ions to triiodide (I3-) ions. The triiodide ions diffuse in the liquid phase and will be reduced on the platinum counter-electrode. The electrons pass through the external electrical circuit where their energy is used. There is a rolling cycle of oxidation/reduction inside the solution. I like the rolling circles, like in my isothermal DNA PCR-like process or in my rotative Engine...

  • I think the diodes used by Frank Gordon work in a similar way. But obviously, as in the Solid-State Fusion Diodes with solid semiconductor, in this case, the energy does not come from the sun, but is brought by the Down-Conversion of the energy of the LENR which takes place in the nanocrystals of palladium.

    Before the complete Down-Conversion of Hagelstein and before complete thermalization of the LENR energy, under 0.1 eV, the energy is harvested at the level of electron-volts.

    In a gaseous diode that Frank Gordon calls “L.E.C.”, the active electrode is made of metal covered with palladium by electroplating in an aqueous medium. This palladium obviously contains hydrogen and a small amount of deuterium. The counter electrode is made of copper. (or other metal) Between the two electrodes there is hydrogen gas. Low Energy Nuclear Reactions take place in the active electrode, according to theoretical modalities which remain to be defined, but which produce energy. This energy undergoes the "Down-Conversion of Hagelstein», and the energy is used to oxidize on the surface of the active electrode the molecules of hydrogen H2 into H2+ ions. The H2+ ions diffuse in the gaseous phase and will be reduced on the copper counter-electrode. There is another “rolling circle” cycle of oxidation/reduction. (Like in a rotating ATPase of the membrane of a living cell, to take the same exemple as Georges Egely does.) It’s a biochemist point of view. The electrons pass through the external electrical circuit where their energy is used.

  • Could you enlarge on that idea a bit?

    Here is the logic chain. The LEC depends on ionization to carry potential difference. Ions must move in the atmosphere between electrodes for electrons to move in conductors between electrodes. NAE, nuclear active sites on one electrode provide the means of that ionization; otherwise, the control would show electrical potential. Rout et al provide the most complete analysis of the radiation from cold fusion. They could not identify the type of radiation but could provide a characterization of the radiation or process to transfer energy that would develop a film. Transfer of energy to develop a film could transfer energy to create a potential difference.

    Per Rout et al the energy transfer process appears to require a porous pathway. That implies that the gas fills the role of an electrolytic fluid. Hence the question: what elements in the gas are critical to ion transfer? Per Rout et al’s table one, atmospheric gas is better than oxygen is better than hydrogen is better than nitrogen. Air is better than oxygen and nitrogen by itself is useless, but air is mostly 4 parts nitrogen to 1 part oxygen. Therefore, logic suggests that nitrogen requires oxygen to create the energy transfer that makes air better than oxygen. (Provided that water (hydrogen) isn’t disproportionately important, which I seem to remember was shown in this discussion). It then follows that whatever the radiation or energy transfer means it involves electron transfer between oxygen and nitrogen.

  • Yes, the observations of the “L.E.C." operating in air observed in particular by Jean-Paul Biberian can be explained in two ways:

    1) The occluded hydrogen is gradually released, undergoing the oxidation/reduction cycle detailed in the image above.

    2) Gases present in the air also undergo a similar oxidation/reduction cycle. Of course, the prime suspect is argon, due to its ease of ionization.

    I bet a bottle of champagne that experiments with an L.E.C. diodes filled with an argon/hydrogen mixture will give very good results, superior to diodes filled with air or filled with pure hydrogen.

    We will drink it together in Stettin.

  • Drgenek Thank you for your contributions. In conversation with Frank he mentioned to me that hydrogen/air was better than pure hydrogen, so you may be onto something.

    Other gases and vapours (possibly including fabrice DAVID 's Argon) may also be interesting, Polar solvents like acetone and Iso-propanol certainly work, and I plan to try a protic vapour like ammonia. Many experiments. so little time.