Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

    fabrice DAVID, I agree with the first part of your explaination: LENR and "down-conversion" that cause the ionization of something. However, since the device is almost perfectly symmetric in carrying the current, a symmetric mechanism and probably an equal number of positive and negative charges are requires to explain the conduction.

    Drgenek, I confirm that air works better than hydrogen (with reference to voltage, actually current would be a better indication) and, as said by J.P. Biberian alcohol or acetone works even better. I will be not surprised at all that a mixture of air or hydrogen with argon or xenon will provide very good results...

    BTW, there are some curious similarities with the behavior of the Celani constantan wires: he reported too that acetone increase the effect, that its wires are able to dissociate water and that a very small voltage appears along the wires...


    EDIT: just to back up what Jed wrote: Prometheus — MATRIX: Self-Powered Solutions (matrixindustries.com)

    I would be remiss not to mention that several new conventional ways to power cardiac pacemakers have been proposed, such as:


    Thermoelectric from small temperature differences within the body, or piezoelectric devices


    Pacemakers charging using body energy
    Life-saving medical implants like pacemakers and defibrillators face a big drawback that their batteries eventually run out and patients require frequent…
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


    Itty-bitty turbines driven by blood flow!


    Engadget is part of the Yahoo family of brands


    Extraction of chemical energy from blood glucose!!


    Russian nuclear scientists are developing a new method of generating electricity from human blood to allow pacemakers to work without replacement.


    Energy from blood: How can we turn our veins into power plants?
    Russian nuclear scientists are developing a new method of generating electricity from human blood to allow pacemakers to work without replacement.
    www.rbth.com


    Creepy, eh? Just what you expect from nuclear scientists.

    Frank told me that he is not ignoring low power applications such as hearing aid batteries. He says they are thinking about them. My response to him --



    Yes, I realize you are not ignoring this. I meant that in general, people overestimate the need for high power in the initial phases of development.

    In your comments to me before the conference, you mentioned the need to increase power by 9 orders of magnitude to reach a "practical level" of 1 kW. That is a practical level for most macroscopic applications, such as running a kitchen blender or turning on the lights. Obviously, for cold fusion to succeed everywhere it will eventually have to be boosted up to megawatt levels. But as Feynman said, "there is plenty of room at the bottom" for microscopic applications. Plenty of profit as well.

    Many companies such as Brillouin seem to be holding back from commercialization until they can achieve high power levels. That is my impression, anyway. I think a better strategy is to stick to low power, ~10 W, and to concentrate on improving control and reliability. Then hand off practical development to large corporations.

    The Clean Planet Roadmap for product launch slide describes a 2.8 kW prototype, and a project with Mirura boilers to produce industrial scale equipment by 2025. That's grand if they can pull it off. I have no objection! But suppose they don't? I fear they may put too much effort into scaling up, rather than improving control, reliability (and also replicability, robustness and so on).

    I do not understand why anyone thinks that a 1 kW reactor is more convincing or closer to being a practical device than a 10 W reactor. This is confusing an unimportant attribute (high power) with the all-important engineering parameters (control, etc.). Improving the so-called COP is also a useless distraction. Increasing power with today's devices brings you "closer to the goal" only in the sense that walking a few hundred feet north brings you closer to the North Pole.

    Granted, heat below 1 W can be difficult to measure. 10 W is much easier. 1 kW is actually more difficult to measure accurately than 10 W.


    Thank you to everyone for your interest in the LEC. This post addresses several questions and comments that have been posted and also some that came up during discussions at ICCF 24.


    With regard to thermionic emissions, we have considered this possibility and we don’t believe that the effect is produced by electrons that are ejected. However, another possibility we are considering involves thermal energy in the lattice ejecting hydrogen ions from a vacancy at the surface. Most lattice vibration models show linear chains of atoms vibrating in a string. This may accurately describe the situation in the bulk but is it accurate at the surface? In sonar, the water surface is a pressure release surface. Is there a similar effect at the surface of a metal hydride lattice? Why would the atoms, particularly a hydrogen atom that is much lower mass than a Pd atom, vibrate in a linear string at the surface? Would the energy in the lattice favor the hydrogen atoms to vibrate out of the plane of the surface of the lattice? Is there enough energy that the hydrogen atom could be ejected from a vacancy with enough energy to ionize the gas? Could the hydrogen atoms that are vibrating perpendicular to the surface produce electromagnetic energy sufficient to ionize the gas? Many of these questions could be resolved if we can determine the source and type of energy that is ionizing the gas.


    Alternatively, keV electromagnetic energy radiated by the working electrode could emit energetic photoelectrons from the counter electrode which would have sufficient energy to ionize multiple gas molecules. As a matter of interest, in the experiments by Thomson and others, care was taken to be sure that the Roentgen rays did not impinge on the electrodes because they didn’t want photoelectrons to be produced and corrupt their results. In the case of the LEC, the photoelectric effect could be a primary source of ionization.


    LEC experimental results appear to be consistent with the description by KK Darrow. He describes a diffusion driven device where differences in ion mobilities and ion density gradients lead to the production of a voltage and current. In this regard, gas mixtures could be important. It is known that electronegative gases such as oxygen, have a greater affinity for electron attachment than hydrogen and thus in combination with the positive hydrogen ions would produce a gas mixture with a greater difference in ion mobility and diffusivity than that which hydrogen gas alone would produce. Similarly, a Penning gas like mixture involving inert gases (argon, etc.) might also produce differences in positive and negative ion mobilities which would be helpful.


    Our experimental results also indicate that the LEC behaves as if it is a current source under load and a voltage when open circuited. This complicates approaches to scaling up the usable voltage through an external load, of LEC circuits. The LEC appears to operate as a temperature dependent, diffusion driven current source, shunted by a voltage dependent conductance.


    Several people have suggested that LEC output is the result of dissimilar metals that are insulated from each other in the presence of water vapor which as Darrow describes which contains ions of different mobilities and diffusivities. This is a real effect that we have observed. An open circuit voltage in the presence of a small current, proportional to the number of ions present per unit volume, will deliver power to a load. However, the density of ions in a LEC is several orders of magnitude greater than that which can be attributed to water vapor at a similar temperature. E.g. A LEC operating at -55 °C conducts current even in the absence of any water vapor molecules. Two Carlon papers are attached for reference.


    A common comment that we have heard is that LEC voltage and current is the result of hydrogen outgassing from the lattice. We have observed LEC output decaying over time in cells exposed to air where insufficient hydrogen is diffusing into the lattice to make up for the outgassing. However, it should be pointed out that the conventional description of outgassing of hydrogen is that the hydrogen atoms sit on the surface until they join with another hydrogen atom to become H2. It appears that the conventional description of outgassing is incomplete when vacancies are present. Also, if this were the only process, the LEC would behave as a diode which we don't observe so there must also be a complimentary gas ionization process occurring simultaneously in order that the conduction be bi-directional as we and others have observed. These results suggest that flux could be important and this may provide an opportunity to scale up the output.

    Quote from Frank Gordon

    LEC experimental results appear to be consistent with the description by KK Darrow. He describes a diffusion driven device where differences in ion mobilities and ion density gradients lead to the production of a voltage and current. In this regard, gas mixtures could be important. It is known that electronegative gases such as oxygen, have a greater affinity for electron attachment than hydrogen and thus in combination with the positive hydrogen ions would produce a gas mixture with a greater difference in ion mobility and diffusivity than that which hydrogen gas alone would produce. Similarly, a Penning gas like mixture involving inert gases (argon, etc.) might also produce differences in positive and negative ion mobilities which would be helpful.

    Thank you for your very complete FAQ above. I think that we are now looking at a materials science project that extends into the realm of both metals and gases. There is much to do.


    BTW, my copy of KK Darrow arrived today, Published in the USA in 1932, my copy is 'ex libris' from the University of Cape Town, (S.Africa) and sold to me by a UK book dealer. ;)

    Quote from Frank Gordon

    LEC experimental results appear to be consistent with the description by KK Darrow. He describes a diffusion driven device where differences in ion mobilities and ion density gradients lead to the production of a voltage and current.

    I think it is marvelous that you are looking at old literature to understand this! Martin Fleischmann strongly recommended doing this. He said there is a lot of forgotten science in the back issues of Nature circa 1900.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    He said there is a lot of forgotten science in the back issues of Nature circa 1900.

    Indeed there is, and in the public domain content of 'proceedings of the Royal Society.' and the patent databases. People published scientific discoveries and explained them carefully, often not realising that they would eventually become useful or important commercially.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Can I ask how? Via calcium hydroxide electrolyte or some other method? Metallic calcium is quite reactive in air or water.

    I was thinking of dissolving a small amount of CaCl2 into the electrolytic solution: it should partecipate to the co-deposition process and so some Ca++ ions should be embedded into the metal lattice. Probably the most external layers will react with water forming Ca(OH)2, but it worth a try... Also potassium is a good candidate (in addition of having a low work function, it also has a radioactive natural isotope).
    BTW, I found this very useful book about work functions of elements and compounds:

    Handbook of Thermionic Properties

    Quote from Stevenson

    Also potassium is a good candidate (in addition of having a low work function, it also has a radioactive natural isotope).

    Potassium is a very good candidate, particularly K2CO3. Chlorides can be surprisingly aggressive when dissociated, but it's worth trying I guess. Don't try mixing them however, you get a neat double decomposition reaction with a precipitate of calcium carbonate (chalk) .

    Has anyone tried a thoriated tungsten welding rod in the middle? Maybe be even plated (I have no idea if iron will effectively plate onto it) it may enhance (or decrease) the effect.


    Cerium oxide is readily available from window glass shops (for polishing). It often has a fair bit of lanthanum oxide in it, up to 10%, based on analyses I have done in the past. Lab quality materials are more expensive, but the glass polish I have been given maybe 100 g or so just for the asking.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    Cerium oxide is readily available

    Actually the 'fire-starter' sticks they sell in camping shops are 'mischmetal' AKA Ferrocerium, which contains some interesting materials


    Ferrocerium - Wikipedia
    en.wikipedia.org


    "Ferrocerium (also known in Europe as Auermetall) is a synthetic pyrophoric alloy of "mischmetal" (cerium, lanthanum, neodymium, other trace lanthanides and some iron – about 95% lanthanides and 5% iron) hardened by blending in oxides of iron and / or magnesium."

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