Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

  • To get asymetric ionisation (H+ H-) is around four times as much.

    The electron (H-) one gets for free if metal is present....And as said Rydberg matter does it at no cost. The Wiki source is based on an other process. H+ needs the well known 13,6 eV and then the electron is free to join H what gives a small contribution. See Mills GUTCP. So the real factor is about 3 without any help - But all LEC have a Rydberg matter structure surface.

  • Haha. Well if the charge generation is large enough (say, from the ferrocerium) then that shouldn't matter. I've seen it work with a small lump of (I think) Strontium-90.

    Thinking about the tests described with a vacuum pulled in a closed LEC chamber, and the lack of measurable voltage between the two electrodes, then I guess that could be taken as evidence of the lack of electron generation in the tested WE.


    However I always have, in the back of my mind, memories of a tale told to me in the 1980s by an old-timer who had been active in nuclear research since the 1940s, regarding the sometimes baffling behaviour of old electrical vacuum devices, which sometimes refused to do what was expected by theory...

  • A new replication of the LEC from a laboratory in China. A short study of one system, apparently work is ongoing. I have edited this for clarity at the request of the Author. so any mistakes are probably mine



    EXPERIMENTAL REPORT ON REPLICATION OF LEC by QIURAN LABORATORY, XI'AN, CHINA


    Zhang hang [email protected] CHEN [email protected]

    ABSTRACT:-


    The lattice energy converter (LEC) phenomenon was discovered by American scientist Frank
    Gordon working with Harper Whitehouse.. French scientist Jean Paul Biberian, Italian scientist
    Antonio Di Stefano and Alan Smith in the UK repeated the experiment. Our Qiuran
    laboratory carried out many experiments and observed the LEC phenomenon. The data we
    gathered are basically consistent with the data observed by foreign scientists.



    Experimental Report on Duplicated Lattice Energy Converter.pdf

  • Thanks Alan Smith , very good they worked with titanium as supporting material of the iron co deposition and got a positive result with heating and using air as the gas. This keeps increasing the parameters under which the LEC can be seen working. Knowing they will replicate in H and D is also very encouraging. The lab report seems very well put together also.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Nice to know that the report author is now publishing this report- linked to LENR forum - in other places too.

    I will upload it to LENR-CANR.org after he gives me the go ahead. I think he is making some additional changes.


    The sample data in this paper is only for air. He also tested hydrogen and deuterium. I suggested he discuss hydrogen and deuterium results as well. He told me:


    "LEC voltage is observed for copper and nickel plating

    Copper plating is the most stable in the air"


    That is the only comment he has made so far about the results from different gases.



    . . . I believe other people who have done this experiment say that air works, but hydrogen or deuterium work better. Is that the consensus?

  • LEC voltage is observed for copper and nickel plating

    Copper plating is the most stable in the air"

    Wow! Copper plating with co deposition? Interesting!

    . . . I believe other people who have done this experiment say that air works, but hydrogen or deuterium work better. Is that the consensus?

    I’d say that the consensus is that H and D works better with iron co-dep, not necessarily better for other metal co deps, and in general prevents rust.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Message from Hang Zhang. He has (like me) shown that co-dep is not essential to see the LEC effect- and his Ti / Ti cell seems to be working after only 3 hours at quite a high voltage. Hard to be sure but I suspect from the voltage used that he wasn't using any electrolyte at all...


    There are new discoveries today, I put the titanium tube into tap water for electrolysis. The titanium tube is the cathode and the anode is titanium. Electrolytic current 0.3A, electrolytic voltage 60V Electrolysis for three hours, then put the cathode titanium tube into the LEC reactor and fill it with hydrogen
    The voltage is also measured at 90 mV and the voltage continues to increase. Smith's electrolytic method is very good (but) I didn't use potash and no carbon rods. This is easier and the effect is the same
    I will measure the voltage in the air again tomorrow


    Thank you.

    HANG ZHANG

  • However titanium at the anode easily forms an impervious oxide layer during electrolysis.

    So it does, but it is very dependent on pH of the electrolyte, At neutral it can form titanium hydroxide, but like Al chemistry Ti chemistry is tricky to put it mildly. However, it might be possible that if oxide or hydroxide were formed gas evolved from the metal beneath it might be able to deflagrate the surface*. Since solubility of both the oxide and tetrahydroxide is very low they would then accumulate on the bottom of the electrolysis tank. Using 60V with presumably a low inter-electrode distance suggests to me that this might be the case.


    Dr. Hang Zhang reads the forum, and would be a member, but there are apparently some technical problems with signing up from the PRC.


    * After all, there is some 58V of overpotential available to cause some powerful effects.

  • I still wait for an XRF confirmation of LENR products or x-ray/gamma rays, or a higher than galvanic energy production.


    Don't waste your time with improper experiments. Only potentials against a mass or a reference electron are valid never between two isolated surfaces.


    As said we know (from Mills) that it can work. But this needs proper experiments.

  • Don't waste your time with improper experiments.

    I agree that there is no more need for replications: the effect has been observed consistently by a large number of researcher. We now need to understand what happens, so more specific experiments should be carried out.

    We still need to find some unequivocal signature of LENR, but we have the gas ionization, that cannot be explained by ordinary knowledge. So, instead of complaining, get into the challenge: are you able to provide a good theoretical explanation for a phenomenon requiring >10 eV happening in that very simple environment? ;) (In finding it, please take into account that in my experiments the plating voltage was < 0.5 V all the time).

  • I agree that there is no more need for replications: the effect has been observed consistently by a large number of researcher. We now need to understand what happens, so more specific experiments should be carried out.

    I think you are wrong, in that there are a huge number of experiments to be done. I have been looking at material effects for example, but have barely scratched the surface after 44 runs. There is no need to discourage replication, but more to view it as the welcome joining in of another potential helper.


    After all, people complain there were never any replications of F&P's work......

  • So, instead of complaining, get into the challenge: are you able to provide a good theoretical explanation for a phenomenon requiring >10 eV happening in that very simple environment?

    I gave you two reason that teh figure of >10eV is wrong.

    1) Most porous surfaces show Rydberg electrons that are bound below temperature level. E.g. n=60 or = few micro volt.

    2) In a solution the H-H separation voltage is 10x lower. All surfaces behave solution like if you don't work under e.g. Argon/Nitrogen as there always is air with hydrogen.

  • Well, there have been quite a few instances where this does not work, carbon/carbon being just 1 example, and plenty of control experiments run looking for artifacts to do with galvanism and none found. Here we are looking at room temperature and persistent mV in the hundreds. Also some more unexplained effects - polarity flipping for example. The Aluminium/co-dep Pd-Al cell that JP Biberian brought to Assisi switched polarity overnight. He can't understand that, nor me.

  • The Aluminium/co-dep Pd-Al cell that JP Biberian brought to Assisi switched polarity overnight. He can't understand that, nor me.

    AS said. Only measurements with a reference electrode/ground are valid measurements. We have to nail down the effect to its roots.

    A media -media voltage is always affected by dozens of parameters. One being the ability to store charge or re-balance charge.


    Please start measuring the currents/wattage even if it takes weeks.

    I just remind you that even with plain lemon you can drive a flashlight for a certain time.



    A potential versus ground is only real if it stays for days/weeks.