Ultra-dense hydrogen and Rydberg matter—a more informal general discussion thread

    Quote from gio06

    Is Holmlid 0.023 angstrom D-D separation a signature of a triple D Efimov state enabling Deuterium fusion?

    Holmlid measured 630 eV for a cluster >= 6H* bound electron! Thus 315 is just half of it. As Deuterium consist of 2 protons then D*-D* has 4 protons, a cluster has >= 12 the added electron flux is shared by 2 protons in average in two dimensions and thus the bond is just half of the H*-H* bond.

    Magnetic bonds show a different action than Coulomb bonds and below the Bohr Radius only magnetic bonds can act.


    Just one more hint. In SO(4) physics I give the exact energy levels for H*-H* as measured by R.Mills. I just noticed if I use the same law as in 4-He for parallel flux I also get about 630 eV for clusters of H*!


    It's a shame that the mafia spends billions for fruitless high energy physics and we still have no deep experiments for the most simple forms (H*-H*) of matter.

    Testeng the Holmlid D-D separation of 0.023 angstrom on a time-of-flight mass spectrometer?

    A low voltage tof mass spectometer with laser ionization might possibly be used to verify the D+ at 630 eV, which is the basis for Holmlids proposal of superdense deuterium. A sample of deuterium satjurated FeO(K) catylyst is ionized in the spectrometer, run at at low acceleration voltage (100V). A D+ signal should then precede all other ions such as H+. By ionization of other deuterium saturated materials like PdD, TiD2, ZrD2, LaD3, one could verify that a 630 eV signal is independent of matrix, and therefore probably caused by a coulomb explosion of two D's very close together.

    I just noticed this got published from Holmlid, Olofson (not the same person as Ólafsson) and Gall:


    Consumption of Hydrogen by Annihilation Reactions in Ultradense Hydrogen H(0) Contributed to Form a Hot and Dry Venus

    https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/ast.2022.0131


    Quote from Abstract

    When water vapor reacts with metals at temperatures of a few hundred kelvin, free hydrogen and metal oxides are formed. Iron is a common metal giving such reactions. Iron oxide together with a small amount of alkali metal as promoter is a good catalyst for forming ultradense hydrogen H(0) from the released hydrogen. Ultradense hydrogen is the densest form of condensed matter hydrogen. It can be formed easily at low pressure and is the densest material in the Solar System. Spontaneous and induced nuclear processes in H(0) create mesons (kaons, pions) in proton annihilation reactions. It is here agreed on that the great difference in the present conditions on Venus and Earth are caused by the initial difference in the temperatures of the planets due to their different distances from the Sun. This temperature difference means that, in warmer planetary environments such as on Venus, the iron + water steam → iron oxide + hydrogen reaction proceeded easily, meaning a consumption of water to give H(0) formation and release of nuclear energy by subsequent nuclear reactions in H(0). On the slightly cooler Earth, the iron + liquid water reaction was slower, and less water formed H(0). Thus, the water consumption and the heating due to nuclear reactions was smaller on Earth. The experiments proving that the mechanisms of forming H(0) and the details of the nuclear processes have been published. The more intense particle radiation from the nuclear processes in H(0) and the lack of water probably impeded formation of complex molecules and, thus, of life on planets like Venus. These processes in H(0) may, therefore, also imply a narrower zone of life in a planetary system than believed previously.

    From the above paper it sounds as if a simple experiment giving a spontaneous signal similar to what Holmlid et al. have observed many times could be heating up to elevated temperature iron powder with slight amounts of alkaline/caustic water solution in a closed container. Perhaps if the container itself was composed of soft steel, metal powder may not even be needed.


    Though, a detector similar to what has been used in his experiments will likely be needed since the signal is so tiny and that detector highly sensitive.

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention can , is an interesting hypothesis. The co authors are listed as belonging to LazeraH, which is also intriguing.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

    Haha 1

    Holmlid published a new paper

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/374854063_Spontaneous_creation_of_muons_and_destruction_of_protons_in_ultra-_dense_hydrogen_H0


    It is estimated by Holmlid that 8×10²³ hydrogen atoms in form H(0) was produced. Given that 6×10²³ atoms of hydrogen is 1 gram, presumably 1,33±0,01 grams of H(0) were produced. The lifetime of H(0) was estimated to be 10¹¹ years. The activity for this amount was roughly 40000 spontaneous reactions/second, so activity per gram is roughly 30000 reactions/second. Given that 1 reaction corresponds to consumption of 2 atoms of protium with rest mass of 939 MeV, we can estimate that 30000×939×2=56340000 MeV of energy per gram is constantly released. Assuming standard density of H(0) to be around 130000 g/cm³, we can estimate that 1 cm³ of H(0) would have an activity of roughly 3900000000 reactions per second, or 3,9 GBq (gigabecquerel). So 1 cm³ of H(0) would constantly release 3900000000×939×2=7324200000000 MeV of energy. Assuming that only 46% of that energy can be converted to heat by any means, we can calculate that 3369132000000 MeV of usable energy would be released, which corresponds to 0,54±0,01 joules/second, or 0,54±0,01 watts of heat. That is not negligible amount of heat just from "decay"!

    Quote from Oleg

    I knew it can be produced in good enough amounts, and finally there is evidence.

    The calculation is interesting but I think there are several unexplained assumptions in that paragraph from that paper and I'm not sure if it really counts as evidence.


    If enough H(0) could be accumulated on/in a suitable material as to noticeably affect its apparent density, that would be undeniable evidence of an ultra-dense material existing, though. Just enough to make the density in the order of several tens of grams/cm3 would be enough for that (let alone kilograms or 130 kg/cm3).

    Quote from can

    If enough H(0) could be accumulated on/in a suitable material

    The energy release from the formation of each dense hydrogen is estimated to be of the order of 500ev by Wyttenbach..


    If as Holmlid estimates there is ~1 mole (8×10²³)of dense hydrogen formed

    then the energy release is ~500x 96.5Kj/ev= ~50Mj


    which is enough energy to vaporise a lot of water.

    The Holmlid experimental setup did not include calorimetry ..

    perhaps somebody could add this but this takes $/time


    also the K doped ferrite catalysts used may be obsolete?

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/374536554_The_proton_and_its_resonances_RIIpdf?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6Il9kaXJlY3QiLCJwYWdlIjoicHJvZmlsZSIsInBvc2l0aW9uIjoicGFnZUNvbnRlbnQifX0

    Quote from RobertBryant

    Holmlid estimates there is ~1 mole (8×10²³)of dense hydrogen formed

    This is obvious nonsense. The second electron of H*-H* is still in his original, orbit albeit much less bound. The Bohr radius is a basic quantity in physics that hold for all chemical bonds.

    Of course H*-H* must be a bit more dense as two H* use the same space as one H. Also the magnetic force may lead to some weak compression (May be I should once calculate it...). Santilli wrote of about 10% in hydrocarbons....


    As said: Old school thinking did mislead all old school guys. See also the Lipinskys and of course Mills.

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