Ultra-dense hydrogen and Rydberg matter—a more informal general discussion thread

  • B.T.W. in addition to detect muons in industrial reactors or micro reactors at universities, it would be highly useful when other LENR researchers would actively apply muon detectors.
    As Holmlid stated a few month ago, most LENR findings likely are bound to UDH/UDD.

  • By MIT, CosmicWatch: 100 $ muon detector.


    This is how CERN detects them.

    The underlying SiPM could possibly be a good alternative to other low-cost light-amplifying sensor types and might be able to detect the signal similarly to how PMTs and certain semiconductor detectors do, but the plastic scintillator could be probably omitted and replaced by a metal sheet or foil as in Holmlid's case with an ordinary photomultiplier tube. It could be sensitive to thermal and RF noise, though.


    Of course, unless somebody with a proven working detector can check it out in practice, it will be difficult to determine for sure whether this can really work or not.


    I gave a look at the website and the claimed 100$ costs are under a very optimistic scenario using bulk prices, no shipping costs, no case, no spares, etc.


    EDIT: it looks like these sensors have a dark count rate in the order of 100000/mm2, which is way higher than that of PMTs (in the order of hundreds/s for a several cm2 photocathode), so they might not be very suitable after all.

  • Given the background count rate of these sensors (as I later found), that wouldn't be unexpected, assuming that in principle they can indeed work for detection. The signal from a moderately large PMT with a background rate of about 300 counts/s would typically increase to about 1000-5000 counts/s after just admitting hydrogen into the chamber, depending on testing conditions. The increase can be a few orders of magnitude lower than the background signal from a typical SiPM of just a few tens mm2 area.


    The images below are from Sveinn Ólafsson's ICCF23 presentation, around minute 17:30. The "layers" refer to the number of aluminium sheet layers placed in front of the PMT (which enhance the signal).


  • A) Industrial catalytic reactors contain sometimes big heaps of catalytic pellets

    B) LENR or Holmlid hydrogen phenomena are rare at least

    C) ergo, catalytic reactors could be excellent LENR or Holmid experimental devices

    D) and LENR aficonados must consider with interest hot-spot failures in catalyst beds

  • Rob Woudenberg

    That's the PMT signal pulse height, which can be interpreted as pulse energy. The multichannel analyzer (MCA) used for analyzing the amplified PMT signal and plotting the spectra sorts the pulses into different 'bins' (or channels), depending on their height/amplitude.

  • Rob Woudenberg

    That's the PMT signal pulse height, which can be interpreted as pulse energy. The multichannel analyzer (MCA) used for analyzing the amplified PMT signal and plotting the spectra sorts the pulses into different 'bins' (or channels), depending on their height/amplitude.

    Assuming this should represent an energy scale with increasing energies (eV) from left to right.
    Not easy to calibrate.

  • Rob Woudenberg

    Higher channels should have higher energies, but a problem seems that different radioactive sources may give similar spectra in the PMT. So, it's possible that the calibration procedure performed by Holmlid using a Cs-137 source is not correct, which could have an impact on the conclusions of the signal origin.


    PMT glass scintillation due to gamma radiation is a known phenomenon, see here for example: https://profdoc.um.ac.ir/articles/a/1078306.pdf

  • PMT glass scintillation due to gamma radiation is a known phenomenon

    That made me wonder about the following:

    A high energy particle that passes through a scintillation element has a remaining energy which is not converted into light within the scintillator. This means that the output value of the PMT does not represent the amount of energy of that particle but only a part of it.
    For muons that seems a realistic situation. How to determine the value of a high energetic muon when scintillators aren't just big enough to catch all the energy of that muon?

  • To do that, you might need something like this..


    A plastic scintillator-based muon tomography system with an integrated muon spectrometer
    A muon scattering tomography system which uses extruded plastic scintillator bars for muon tracking and a dedicated muon spectrometer that measures sc…
    www.sciencedirect.com


    A muon scattering tomography system which uses extruded plastic scintillator bars for muon tracking and a dedicated muon spectrometer that measures scattering through steel slabs has been constructed and successfully tested. The atmospheric muon detection efficiency is measured to be 97% per plane on average and the average intrinsic hit resolution is 2.5 mm. In addition to creating a variety of three-dimensional images of objects of interest, a quantitative study has been carried out to investigate the impact of including muon momentum measurements when attempting to detect high-density, high-Z material. As expected, the addition of momentum information improves the performance of the system. For a fixed data-taking time of 60 s and a fixed false positive fraction, the probability to detect a target increases when momentum information is used. This is the first demonstration of the use of muon momentum information from dedicated spectrometer measurements in muon scattering tomography.

  • Rob Woudenberg

    If the scintillating element is not long enough, of course not all the energy of the incoming particles will be captured.


    The PMT detector used in Holmlid's studies does not generally use a (proper) scintillator, however. It's the aluminium (or other metal) foils placed in front of the PMT window which generate the signal. Without them, the signal is lower by a factor of 100 or so (as reported here). Sometimes it has been also noted that adding several centimeters worth of plastic scintillator material in front of the foils causes a signal reduction (due to interaction with the supposed muons), so the energy of the incoming particles must not be exceedingly high.


    The most recently published explanation is that the passage of muons through such foils generates electron-positron pairs that penetrate into the PMT and get directly amplified by the dynode chain contained therein, but I'm not sure if the possibility of the Al foils themselves generating gamma radiation or x-rays (in turn causing PMT scintillation) or perhaps even directly visible photons (e.g. due to some novel interaction by unknown particles) has been investigated. I don't recall PMT glass scintillation being considered by Holmlid as a possible explanation for the observed signal.

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