MEET THE EXPERIMENTERS - Interviews with notable scientists.

  • You need to adjust the lighting and microphone. You need to move back from the microphone. A virtual background with a green screen might help. Montgomery Childs had the right equipment, lighting and delivery.

    It should be apparent that we have absolutely no shame and are compelled to continue despite serious deficiencies. We will do better. Nevertheless, however it rolls, we roll with it brother.

  • Here is a partial transcript:


    ---First, you've just come off of the 2020 RNBE meeting, for French CMNS scientists to exchange ideas, and you gave the Introductory talk. Describe what you talked about. What did you discuss in your introduction?

    JR: OK, you are talking about our RNBE meeting. This needs some explanations. In France we have our own association dealing with cold fusion. Simply because we need an organisation for French speaking people. Not everybody here likes to read papers in English or worse is able to listen to speeches in English. That's a fact.


    So, this association is the société française de la science nucléaire dans la matière condensée, in understandable French French society for condensed matter nuclear science. The object of the association is LENR, in French RNBE. Last month we held our 3rd RNBE meeting RNBE2020. Because of the pandemic situation RNBE2020 was organized as a virtual meeting. The amazing result was that much more people joined the meeting than during the previous ones. May be because it was cheaper to participate and thre were no travelling costs. May be also because the subject attracts more and more people. We had participants coming from California to Russia, with many of them discovering the subject.


    So, I made the introductory talk mainly to introduce the subject to new comers, giving the basic information already familiar to our listeners today, about Pons & Fleichsmann's history, the proofs of excess heat, the absence of neutrons, of gamma rays etc. I also pushed forward the message that the term cold fusion is too restrictive because what we see in the experiments is much more various than the fusion of deuterons into helium. We see reactions with protons. We see reactions with palladium but also nickel, titanium, other metals. We see transmutations. We are far from the initial cold fusion concept. I propose, at least for the moment, to describe what we study as Hydrogen-Metal-Energy, a term forged in Japan by Takahashi. It describes in a simple way what we are looking at with no pretention concerning the deep phenomena at play. The day a complete theory accepted by all will exist we will change the name again for the last time.


    I also took this opportunity to say our satisfaction for the support of the European Commission to 2 research projects. The 2 projects financed are called HERMES and CleanHME. It is a great leap forward to receive an official support from such a large organization. The visibility may prove more important than the money received. Personally I have the pleasure to be involved in CleanHME for the engineering aspects of the project.



    ---Jacques Ruer, you gave an Energy Production Policy talk at the The Clean Hydrogen Metal Energy project Kickoff session. Talk about that project. What is the Clean Hydrogen Metal energy Project about? What is the mission? Are labs working separately? or collaborating?


    JR: The CleanHME project adresses the topics required in the call for proposals from the European Commission. To describe the mission let me quote what was written in this European call :


    “Breakthrough concepts and techniques for generating heat and/or electricity efficiently with zero emissions and with a minimal use of rare or toxic materials. Research areas could include, for example, long duration high heat sources from hydrogen-metal systems (e.g., using nickel), energy generation in plasma and cavitation systems. These or any other concepts with high energy density and low-cost energy generation capabilities should be harnessed to make them usable for specific application contexts. Clear and ambitious performance targets and milestones to achieve them shall be provided.”


    The project duration is 4 years. The labs are collaborating together. The collaboration includes the exchange of information, the exchange of samples between labs that are able to manucfature sample materials and other labs that are able to test them, discussion and replication of the results, etc.


    The target is really ambitous. Should these 2 projects succeed, the World could be changed completely because the access and the use of energy shape the world we live in in a great extent.


    As you say, I made the Energy Production Policy talk at the CleanHME project Kickoff session. Because I used to work on renewable energies in the past I also have a broad view on climate change and on the impact of fossil fuels energy. The big question we are facing now is to determine how fast we need to make the transition of energy supply in order to make sure we avoid a catastrophic climate change. We don't have a clear answer to this question now. So we should act as fast as possible in order to never have to discover the answer. Because in the future answer might very well be what we should have done in the past to avoid the catastroph, in other words too late.



    ---Last ICCF-22 in 2019, you gave a talk on the basics of mass flow calorimetry - which was a really good break down on how it operates optimally - in order to better understand the reports of big heat from veteran researcher Tadahiko Mizuno and his palladium-rubbed nickel-mesh reactor.


    What did you learn about that reactor, and what do you think about it now, as labs around the world still are attempting to reproduce the method, and none having the same success?


    JR : Again I have the eye of the engineer. I was greatly intrigued by Mizuno's experiment. I cannot judge the profound results concerning the reactions in the reactor itself, but air flow calorimetry is a technique that be can analyzed in terms of classical physics, I would say in engineering terms. And when you study airflow calorimetry you start to realize there are many parameters involved, and that some of them are difficult to control. For example you have to measure the mass of air flowing through the system and the air temperatures at the inlet and the outlet. It may be hard to believe but these parameters are not easy to measure accurately. Also, heat transfer between the hot reactor and the calorimeter enclosure is complicated. For example, air is transparent to infrared, so the heat radiated by the hot surface of the reactor is not captured directly by the airflow, but indirectly. It is complicated. A careful calibration of the calorimeter must be done. It is the only solution to obtain reliable results but even calibration has some difficulties. So, if we want to compare the results obtained by different labs it is necessary to go into details of the complete system used in each case. By the way, it would be advisable to describe a common protocol that could be used by everybody.



    ---You've done some analysis of catastrophic events and in fact offered a scenario for the 1985 experiment by Fleischmann and Pons, which “destroyed an experiment, burned through the supporting bench and produced significant damage in the concrete floor." --Overview of ICCF21 by Nagel and Kandinsky Well, there's a bit of a discrepancy on how big that hole bench was. In fact, we just published a comic book saying it was a big as a fist, but others dispute that and say it was as big as a thumb. Do you know how big that 1-cm-cube Pd meltdown was?


    JR: Well, it is true I have done the analysis of some catastrophic events. When I do this my starting point is always : "is it possible to explain the catastrophic event with conventional physics ?"


    The first event I investigated was the strong explosion that occurred at Jean-Paul Bibérian's lab in 2004. The electrolyser was shuttered by an explosion so violent that Jean-Paul put forward the question "Was there an atomic origin?".


    When you look at the physics of explosion in hydrogen-oxygen mixes you learn that you can get a middle deflagration or a violent detonation. If you try to replicate the explosion in a tube filled by a mix of hydrogen and oxygen you only get a gentle deflagration. Except that in some cases the initial deflagration flame transits into a very strong shockwave. This is well known and called SWACER for Shock Wave Amplification by Coherent Energy Release. I made my own experiments and I am now able to reproduce such detonations in a setup similar to the one used by Jean-Paul. I tell you these explosions are surprisingly strong.


    I think we should do such analyzes in order we refrain ourselves to advocate nuclear mechanisms when conventional physics coupled with simple experiments can explain the events. Some day we will attract the attention of mainstream scientists. They will discover that we wrote mistakes in the past. It will be detrimental for the credibility of all of us. So, we should avoid unnecessary mistakes.


    When I presented my results in Italy David French came to me and asked me "Jacques could you study if conventional physics could explain the hole observed with this 1cm cube palladium meltdown?" David was a friend we miss now. I accepted the challenge and started to look at the problem, again with the starting point from conventional physics. I made a model. And I calculated that a cube of palladium saturated with deuterium coming into contact with air can heat up the metal to red hot temperatures because of the chemical reaction between the hydrogen coming out of the metal and the air oxygen . This phenomenon was observed a few times by Ed Storms and other researchers. So, the calculation has some validity. Beyond that, if you want to stick to classical physics you have to imagine a credible scenario why the cube goes in contact with air, why an explosion occurs, why the explosion is so violent, why it creates a hole on the floor. You can imagine a scenario, and I did it, but I must admit it remains difficult to explain a large hole on the bench and on the floor. A small one, may be, a large one is largely speculation. I would like to have an archeologist in our community to go to room 1331 at the basement of the Eyring lab at Utah university. He could find out remnants of the event by looking at the repairs on the floor. I would very much like to know the results.



    ---Well, we've got to wrap it up, but before we go, Jacques Ruer, talk about some of the ways you see LENR changing the World.


    JR: Cold fusion, or LENR, or Hydrogen-Metal-Energy, depending as we name it, can offer new clean energy sources without any emission detrimental for the environment. For the moment it is still a dream but we have now good reasons to think that this dream will come alive soon or later.


    It will take some time to transform the energy world we know into the new one, simply because there are huge implications at every level. Just think at the production of coal, oil and gas, at the automotive or aircraft industries, at the international trade and the financial fluxes between energy producing countries and energy consuming countries, the geopolitical consequences, etc.


    Like any revolution in technology we are going first to face some reluctancy to accept the change. And suddenly the situation will flop over and everybody will push to adopt it. That day will come and we are working for it to happen.

  • MEET FRANCIS TANZELLA interview just published!



    Great news for our members and readers. We had the honor of interviewing Francis Tanzella, one of the "household" names in the LENR field, and who has been working in many of the research teams that have been able to succesfully replicate the results of Fleischmann and Pons, and has met and worked with many of the greatest minds behind the development of Cold Fusion LENR, and beyond.



    Francis Tanzella is a Chemist and Principle Scientist with the Energy Research Center in Northern California. He first confirmed the Fleischmann and Pons Anomalous Heat Effect at SRI International's lab in Menlo Park, California in 1989. There, along with a team led by Michael McKubre, he correlated the excess heat generated in palladium-deuterium cells to the amount of helium produced by the cell, among other LENR discoveries. Frank Tanzella has also evaluated and tested the Brillouin Hot-Tube energy generator now in development by Brillouin Energy Corporation and continues to evaluate various technologies vying to find the recipe to clean energy from the hydrogen in water.

    Francis Tanzella, as portrayed by Matt Hottwarth in "Discover Cold Fusion" by Ruby Carat and Matt Hottwarth, Curtiss Press.



    In this interview Francis updates us about how things are going on Brillouin Energy and the fascinating engineering challenges that represents turning Brillouin's Intellectual Property into a commercializable device, while still not having a deep understanding of the theoretical aspects and finding ways to create the very specific conditions in which the reaction works.


    We also get to know a brief glimpse about other projects he is involved in, within LENR and outside the field.


    We then get a peek into the personal side, the fascinating characters he has had the honor to meet in all these 32 years, and the friendships that he has forged, how he cultivates them, and how he has managed to take part and be a key member of many of the most succesfull LENR projects and teams with people from all around the world.


    We hope you enjoy this interview and get this important first hand update, about one of the companies that is probably closer to become the first one to put a LENR device in the market.


    Godspeed, Francis, we loved interviewing you and hope to have you again back soon with great news!!!


    You can watch the interview in the following link:



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    and remember to take part in the discussion of our MEET THE EXPERIMENTER SERIES Here:



    Until the next one!


    The LENR-FORUM Staff.


    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • The resolution of the video I think is because the setting during the meeting, not sure if it can be increased but I think in this kind of interview higher resolution is not needed.


    About the figure I don’t know, can’t anyone see it?

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Curbina

    Now it's visible. You can also perform a similar check by using a different browser or logging out from the forum.


    It appears that sometimes, when admins or moderators upload something on the forum, only other admins and moderators can see the uploaded resources, not ordinary members or guests.

  • Curbina

    Now it's visible. You can also perform a similar check by using a different browser or logging out from the forum.


    It appears that sometimes, when admins or moderators upload something on the forum, only other admins and moderators can see the uploaded resources, not ordinary members or guests.

    Yes, I know now how to avoid it, thanks for pointing it out. Regarding the resolution, there’s not much that can be done, this is a collaborative effort and bandwidth for uploads / downloads is limited.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Tanzella put in a plug for the revamped https://brillouinenergy.com/ website, but it looks the same to me. Also, his http://energyresearchcenter.net/ is still a little sparse.

    I hadn’t look at the BEC site for a long while (4 years) and It looked all new to me, so perhaps he was referring to a not so new update that you had looked recently. The 2019 data there was not new to me but I had read it elsewhere.


    The site of Francis is more of a business card, but is great that he is open to share his experience as a consultant.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • If i understood correctly what FT said that the main problem is to get enough electromagnetic excitation power in the THz-range. Their solution is to create very sharp, high dU/dt (or dI/dt), pulses and wish enough harmonic components in the high frequency area. It is easy to understand the problem, because the highest electric frequencies in normal life are those found in WiFi or inside a microwave oven, a few GHz. So 1000x more is needed. I checked a little bit in the internet what is available at the moment. The fastest components seem to be capable of handling a few hundreds of GHz but THz is still far-away.


    To succeed they need to invent something quite exotic to overcome the problem. Fortunately there is quite a lot of interest in this frequency area especially in sensor development so maybe suitable components are soon available there ?