What was wrong since 1989 ?

  • I am not sure I understand the presentation. But I provide an interpretation based on NAE (nuclear active environment). NAE form which cause an LENR reaction. NAE form at the surface of H absorbing metals. The NAE in a H absorbing metal have a higher concentration of H relative to the chemically predicted concentration of H in the absorbing metal which chemistry is a function of pressure and temperature. However, when one analyses a sample, one see averages for hydrogen concentration, so more NAE means the ratio of hydrogen to metal is higher with NAE than without NAE. The H in the NAE are in a condensed state meaning that H converts its state (chemical or nuclear) and absorbs to an NAE and diffuse of hydrogen back out of the NAE has a different temperature and pressure function than for non condensed hydrogen absorption to the same metal. Therefore, the conversion of hydrogen to a state which condenses in NAE is the most significant parameter to the formation of NAE. The amount of NAE is the most important parameter to energy production by LENR. Further, there is an expected threshold of hydrogen in a condensed state for an accumulation of condensed material to become an NAE.


    Per the presentation, the change of state to "Rydberg" matter may involve absorption of phonons to hydrogen from the lattice vibrations which place mono-atomic hydrogen in highly excited state. A mixture of hydrogen absorbing metals exposed to steam will generate hydrogen with each type of metal. It will also create some "Rydberg" matter. It is proposed that the "Rydberg" matter has different absorption rates to different metals, so it is generated between various metal lattices but kinetically tends to the metal with the highest "Rydberg" matter absorption rate.


    Experimentally one plays with particle sizes (mass transfer depends on transfer surface area) and ratios of different metals. Some metals transfer "Rydberg" matter and others absorb "Rydberg" matter. There is some combination and ratios of metals to get the feeder metals to cause the accumulating metal to develop active NAE.

  • Drgenek

    Sometimes i spoke about NAE which was only a quick way to talk about the place where the reaction occurs.

    Now, absolutely no link with Storms D2 ways.. also alsolutely no link with Oldlid at all.


    I thought I had popularized as much as possible, but it seems that this is not enough, I will try to give even more explanations soon.. However, it will not be a support to waste my time with all my detractors :thumbup:

  • Cydonia
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's always good to see different insights.

    You mentioned 'The famous catalyst : The Iron Steam Reaction'. It is a new suggestion for me although I studied Rossi for many years. Do you have an independent source that confirms the use of this reaction?


    It seems that Rossi has left the original method of using nickel powder plus catalysts.

    Do you have any thoughts on Rossi's next development steps after the process that you described?

  • Rob Woudenberg  Drgenek


    Well to be the more understandable as possible, if you need doing a chemical reaction with A+B you will have next AB.

    Now, if you need 10x more AB you should need 10x A and 10x B.

    If you have only for example 10xA and only 5x A never you will product 10x AB.


    This is the same about increasing Lenr reactions by powders, if face to face each nickel atom (for example) you aren't able to put one hydrogen atom, no need in this case to use powders.

    Only using high hydrogen pressure isn't enough.

    Better should be using mono hydrogen liquid "if existed" at ambiant temperature and pressure.

    Now it will be easier to use any solid or liquid catalyst as this one proposed.

    Creating directly mono H "enough stable and excited" against the nickel, this is the way.


    Never ICCF grandfathers or MFMP, Parkhomov and so many others understood that !

  • Rob Woudenberg

    Well, to be clearer on your "excited state" question.



    As you can see above rust formation is exothermic then this energy will be transfered to the 2 H which will become next highly excited.

    it's like running to catch up with a starting train, it's easier than walking.

    Energy at nickel surface highly fluctuates at high frequency, this is surface plasmon charge fluctuation.

    So, when the surface charge will become more weak than nominal that H excited will be "sucked" like a kind of P/N junction, as the "train" analogy.

  • Thank you for explaining a bit more what you meant Cydonia.

    I am wondering how this would be a better effect than just raising the temperature of the reaction vessel, e.g. with an electrical external or internal heater element

    Increasing the temperature will also 'excite' hydrogen because of extra heating.


    You probably have in mind that at atomic scale the heat that is released by iron oxidation can be directly transferred to surrounding hydrogen molecules. There will also be a temperature increase of the created iron oxide of course. So, if heat is transferred at atomic scale it will be partly transferred to the surrounding hydrogen.


    In addition, probably also the nickel particles will oxidize which will frustrate the absorption of atomic hydrogen.

  • I think quite a few chemical reactions can produce monatomic hydrogen. This was not considered to be remarkable.

    Old school chemists would maintain that some simple reactions, for example the reaction between Zn metal and Hydrochloric acid (Zn+2Hcl = ZnCl2 + 2H was said to produce what they called 'nascent hydrogen' - meaning 'new born'. So the reaction would continue as 2H -> H2.

  • Well i understand that 2Hcl are 2x ( H+Cl) that means during the reaction we will have 2H during a short time before doing H2 no ?

    Ways to produce H mono are well known but maintain its during a relative long time and carrying them remains a real challenge of engineering.

    This is why produce them directly against where they have to "react", this is the key.

    Now, to do that you need to use nm iron powders to reach 5% porosity after compression.

    Even if you don't use a real press able to compress at several tons by cm2 no way.

    I well known dreamers rather using threaded rods and nuts but you have to let them keep dreaming ahaha.

    I suggest a mix of iron powder from 25nm up to 1µm mixed with 5µm nickel T255.

    I still have 200 grs of this kind of nickel powder available for free if someone is interested.

    Old school chemists would maintain that some simple reactions, for example the reaction between Zn metal and Hydrochloric acid (Zn+2Hcl = ZnCl2 + 2H was said to produce what they called 'nascent hydrogen' - meaning 'new born'. So the reaction would continue as 2H -> H2.

  • I have proposed a highly excited state of mono H. Actually, there are 240 states whose energies range from 13.5878925 ev to 0.7824260093 Mev ( values are specific to with 2.0 E-5 ev). These states are related by a multi body photon condensation called Phats by P. Williams. The quantum formula relating these states is E = 13.5878925 * (n2). The n is the integer number of excited mono H which simultaneously transfer energy to a single hydrogen or other atom within a cluster of excited mono Hs causing deexcitation of all the the atoms (linked by shared photons interaction) except the one atom that receives the photon condensate. Of course when some of hydrogen or other participating atoms in the cluster are in a state other than quantum level one, n does not correspond number of atoms causing the production of a photon condensate. The accepting state preserves the condensate energy via an almost instantaneous but reversible reaction which consumes an orbital electron, an anti-neutrino and photon condensate. Because the phat activated states are the same as activated states for beta decay, the atom's nucleus is also activated by absorption of the photon condensate. This type of activated state of an atom's nucleus causes the atom to become super-magnetic. So much so that the atom is capable of magnet to magnet bonding. Further, there are several elements other than hydrogen which are capable of absorbing the above phat based photon condensates. Some examples are helium, oxygen, nitrogen, lithium, beryllium, boron and carbon. Hence, any of these elements can become super-magnetic atoms under some condition.


    Because photon condensate production is tied to 13.5878925 ev photons, much of the energy provided by heating, lattice vibrations, laser, or electric current would be useless to cause cold fusion (LENR?).


    However, it is because of these super-magnetic states really do exist, that I was able to prove cold fusion by mass balance and stoichiometry. For complete details see US020180322974A120181108 (storage.googleapis.com)


    My apologies to Cydonia and others if by comment does not seem relevant. I felt that my view has several parallels with Cydonia's presentation, "Ryberg" states and the mixtures used by Rossi.

  • My apologies to Cydonia and others if by comment does not seem relevant. I felt that my view has several parallels with Cydonia's presentation, "Ryberg" states and the mixtures used by Rossi.


    No worries Drgenek all points of view are good as long as people have a capacity for questioning.

    Even I am perfectible but I wrote this paper because I have found too little relevant work for 30 years and so many repetitions.

    Take a look at this new ICCF, for example, what new could we already say ?


    Regarding photons, I trust you, you are surely more experienced than me on this topic.