Kirill Peskov: "LENR: Pseudoscience or scientific revolution?"

    If you have the 'Google Translate' app the article SERGEI linked above can be read in English. Here's the opening...


    "There are many cases in history when contemporaries at first called great discoveries the delirium of a madman, and their authors were sent to be treated or, even worse, to the fire. There are still many underwater currents in nuclear physics that are not recognized by official science. Among them is the famous cold fusion, which in recent years has become almost synonymous with pseudoscience. Our author has been following this topic for a long time, he has something to say. Anticipating the objections of some readers, we are waiting for letters to [email protected] ."

    I did this translation part by part so

    might have missed some.


    There are many cases in history when great discoveries were initially called the ravings of a madman by contemporaries, and their authors were sent to be treated or worse - to the stake. There are still a lot of undercurrents in nuclear physics that official science does not recognize. Among them is the famous cold fusion, which has become almost synonymous with pseudoscience in recent years. Our author has been following this topic for a long time, he has something to say. Anticipating the objections of some readers, we are waiting for letters to [email protected] .


    One of the basic laws of the universe is continuous development. This process, like all others in nature, goes by leaps and bounds. First, a new, more progressive content appears in the depths of the old obsolete form, then the form itself changes. This pattern applies to all areas of science and technology, including fundamental physics.


    In the last century, there have been qualitative scientific breakthroughs in this field, first of all, we are talking about discoveries in the field of nuclear and quantum physics. But what has been going on for the last 60 years? All these quarks with their color, smell and charm, Higgs bosons, string theory, hundreds of billions of dollars spent on ITER, CERN and other gigantic projects that have not found at least some practical application… Maybe the reason for this is the long-standing crisis of the old fundamental physics, which has long been time to move to a new scientific paradigm?


    Meanwhile, somewhere behind the scenes of official science, first at the level of theoretical research, then numerous successful experiments, and now parallel processes are taking place with the release of industrial products. Maybe this is where we need to look for a new scientific breakthrough? What if it is naturally inhibited by scientists of the old formation and officials? The first do not want to lose their status and privileges, the second - to do something new — and so it is very good to live. But a breakthrough is inevitable, and something tells me that it will happen not smoothly, in an evolutionary way, but in a sharp leap, revolutionary. As a result, it will shake the entire world community, and first of all the countries whose economy is based on energy.


    The Birth of LENR


    In March 1989, physicists Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons presented an installation in which, according to the authors, nuclear fusion reactions (conversion of deuterium into tritium or helium) took place at a temperature close to room temperature under the conditions of heavy water electrolysis. However, no perceptible neutron and gamma radiation was registered. But the experiments still made a lot of noise. It was then that journalists came up with the name "cold thermonuclear" for such effects.


    A little later, Francesco Piantelli and co-authors discovered the effect of abnormal heat release in nickel-hydrogen systems. Their experiments were repeated with varying success in many laboratories around the world. After that, various modifications and improvements were made, which allowed to stabilize and strengthen these effects. In particular, similar experiments were conducted in the USSR: on Anatoly Vachaev's Energoniva apparatus, Stanislav Adamenko's Proton-21 installation, and Ivan Filimonenko's installations. However, as often happens, the research did not receive the necessary support and stopped with the death of the authors.


    Since these effects were often accompanied by transmutation of elements, they were called low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR). Although this name does not accurately reflect the processes taking place and the energy from the transmutation of elements does not always correspond to the overall energy effect, the name has stuck.


    Promising transmutation


    Now the effects of obtaining excess energy and transmutation of elements have already been obtained in hundreds of laboratories in various ways: on metal-hydrogen installations, electrolysis, pulse technologies, plasma vortex generators, cavitation, gas discharge, etc.


    The main conditions for such reactions are the presence of hydrogen or deuterium in the form of water, gas or decomposing hydrides, nickel- or palladium-based getters with a developed surface - nanopowders, nanocoats, defects in the structure and twins, allowing to adsorb and absorb hydrogen with its separation into protons and electrons, plus the addition of surface energy, and powerful local energy effects - electromagnetic pulse, laser, heating, etc.


    Transmutation is a secondary effect, the primary is the interaction of a certain energy medium with matter. But it is this secondary effect that can contribute to the promotion of qualitatively new technologies. For example, they can actually destroy radioactive waste by transmuting radioactive isotopes into stable forms, changing the half-life, which will really increase the competitiveness of nuclear energy. Separately, successful experiments of transmutation of elements by bacteria, including the conversion of radioactive caesium into stable barium, should be noted. Although these works began in Russia (Kornilova, MSU), they are now being implemented on a semi-industrial basis in Korea.


    From startups to government programs


    Visit the new photo bank of the Rosatom Country

    All work on LENR started with a small private financing. But now the USA, China, Japan, Korea and the European Union have adopted state programs. The European Union has launched international projects HERMES and CleanHME, in which dozens of countries and organizations participate. The SAFIRE project, funded by the USA, is also known. I'm not talking about numerous little-known projects funded by military departments. More than a hundred international conferences on this topic have already been held. The last one is in mid-June in China (ICCF23).


    Extensive information on LENR is collected on this site, although it has not yet been fully systematized, and on hundreds of other sites. I think not paying attention to LENR means repeating the position of an ostrich hiding its head in the sand.


    E-Cat for Sale


    Rossi did not stop there. After a series of trials with firms that funded his research, which prevented him from starting mass production of thermal E-Cats, he found new sponsors (Leonardo Corporation) with accreditation in Miami (USA). Rossi has developed a new modification, the E-Cat SKL, in size 20*20*20 sm, which, according to him, no longer generates excess heat, but excess electricity in the amount of 4 kW without an external power source. Now the factory model is being finalized, products are being examined and certified. Rossi plans to present a model and release an industrial design in 2022. And now he has already fully prepared for sale (passed all examinations and certifications) a simplified E-Cat SKLed model.

    The presentation will take place on December 9. Together with industrial SKLed, Rossi will present a demonstration sample of SKL. The Italian is already accepting pre-orders on the website ecat.com, advises on the portal rossilivecat.com . Rossi expects to release 1,000,000 installations by the end of the year and start selling at a price of $ 25 apiece.


    The stated characteristics of the product are impressive. This LED lamp with a weight of 200 g and a size of 15*10*10 cm consumes only 4 watts of electricity and gives more than 10,000 lumens with a 10-year warranty. Conventional LED lamps require 100 watts for this, that is, the COR (energy efficiency coefficient) is 25 (excess of output power over input). The lamp is designed to illuminate streets and greenhouses. And although this is not yet the main model, however, its characteristics can play the role of a Trojan horse and bring down the energy market. Then there will be modifications for other purposes.


    In search of a theory


    No one can really explain the principles of LENR. There are about a hundred hypotheses, but they are contradictory, and the theorists themselves do not like each other very much. But almost all of them proceed from an appeal to the energy environment surrounding us - ether or physical vacuum (PV), from which matter was formed and whose energy is limitless. Most likely, there is a general principle at work here — an impulse effect on matter (a hydrogen medium), and through it on the PV associated with it, a local compaction of the PV medium with the matter in it - free electrons and protons (from the hydrogen medium). Their nonequilibrium state in a higher density PV causes them to absorb its energy in the form of an antineutrino and receive an impulse from it, as in beta decay. This gives an excess of thermal energy. Of course, here we still need to find the resonant frequencies of the PV. But if a field is applied to this chaotic pulsed motion of electrons, then the movement of electrons and protons can be ordered and an electric current can be obtained.


    This is not a theory yet, but only an approximation. Nevertheless, Andrea Rossi published an article in his journal noting that these approaches are close to his.


    Since there is no complete theory yet, everyone works more by poking or multiple poking. Those who have money, equipment and high-level specialists, like Rossi, have the advantage. The Russians don't have any of this, so we've been marking time for almost 25 years. With all the originality and experience of the current Russian scientists dealing with LENR problems, their desire to develop and promote the process and attract attention to it, it is unlikely that they will be able to be on a global level without outside help. But it is simply necessary to monitor the development of this direction all over the world.

    The whole area of free or cheap energy is littered with false science.

    From the most kooky end of perpetual motion machines (Orbo etc, etc) to the exoticness of quantum theory and zero point energy.


    In some cases it is genuine scientists who are fooling themselves and then when they fail to convince others they claim they are some misunderstood and persecuted genius.

    Of course it is always possible, if unlikely, that they are misunderstood and persecuted, see comments below on Wegener.


    In some cases it is charlatans who are not even scientists but dress their pitch up in pseudoscientific language.


    For instance the following link is an interesting criticism of the Safire project.

    The Safire Project is not real science.


    If Safire, or BLP or others want to convince the scientific mainstream then experiments and data are required not videos of flashing balls of light!

    Serious researchers likeMcKubre and Nagel do not indulge in such YouTube theatrics, so it has to be asked, why do it? (I have my own views on this).


    As we all know, far as LENR is concerned there are clearly hundreds of results from thousands of experiments which makes it compelling, but still on the scientific fringes with no theory and no reliably reproducible experiment. But LENR has suffered from its own instances of fraud and scandal which damages the credibility and gives ammunition to those who wish to attack it.

    Fringe science is usually ignored by the mainstream and at worst is attacked and ridiculed. Alfred Wegener was ignored by most and attacked by a few. He had no credible mechanism for his theory and the large number of pieces of evidence he offered were simply ignored. But in the end continental drift was confirmed and went from fringe science to mainstream. I expect that LENR will similarly be widely validated and accepted, just 40 years later than it should have been. Hopefully we won't have to wait too much longer, the planet needs LENR now.

    I am a geologist myself and worked with Alfred Wegener in the search for oil and gas. Now I realized a long time ago that we need new energy and now we have come to this. Oil is the blood of the planet and pumping it out is ruining the planet. I found globular nodules and look at them, how everything happens in the earth's crust. All substances in the earth are formed due to terrestrial electricity and I go in search of new energy due to geology and geophysics. You correctly made such a detour with Wegener-this is my idol!

    if you knew how much you know nothing about him, your condescension does nothing to your credit.

    Some people read you others are probably closer to you than you can never imagine, but you bulge the torso as a condescending ignorant.

    LenrForum is just the tip of a world you can't see.

    Quote from Curbina

    ZenoOfElea , The so called “professor” criticizing the SAFIRE project has been already discussed here in the proper thread. He is not even a professor.

    Thanks Curbina,


    Actually I am not that interested in Safire, I am here because I am interested in LENR, but I will take a look at the thread.

    Is Safire LENR or something different?

    I certainly am not in a position to debate Safire. Is anyone in a position to say whether it is real science or not?

    If and when they produce something concrete then we will know.


    Anyhow this is not the appropriate thread and it is not my intention to get into a discussion over that specific topic.


    As I said the area of free energy or cheap energy is plagued by pseudoscience.

    It is sometimes very difficult to work out what is genuine and what isn't.

    It seems clear that the phenomena of LENR is a real scientific phenomena. The problem is that LENR operates at the scientific fringe and needs to be progressed into legitimacy and eventually mainstream. Hopefully the ARPA-E LENR workshop will move things forward.

    Quote from Cydonia

    if you knew how much you know nothing about him, your condescension does nothing to your credit.

    Some people read you others are probably closer to you than you can never imagine, but you bulge the torso as a condescending ignorant.

    LenrForum is just the tip of a world you can't see.

    Cydonia , I am talking about YouTuber “professor Dave”, is he who you claim I don’t know? I wasn’t taking about “il dottore” inventor of the ECat-SKL, whom I followed long enough to eventually lose my interest in his perpetual evolving inventions,

    and parted ways from following him anymore, not without first wishing him well in his endeavors.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

    Quote from ZenoOfElea

    I certainly am not in a position to debate Safire. Is anyone in a position to say whether it is real science or not?

    Try this - interview with the CEO of Safire AKA 'Aureon', talking very freely about what they are doing.


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    Quote from Shane D.

    I think I may have upset some people with my comment about that "Italian guy". To keep the peace it is now deleted. Is it me or is the forum a little touchy today?

    With Covid a lot of people are

    Touch Starved.


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    www.medicalnewstoday.com

    I think I also upset some people yesterday, for which I apologise.


    I have been a long time follower of the LENR story and am also interested in the blight of pseudo-science. I put my foot in it by referencing specific experiments or projects as examples, when my actual intent was to make very general points. I get that certain experiments or projects have passionate followers.


    As a lay person I am not in a position to provide scientific criticism on specific research. I don’t know which might be valid and which not. And even if I read all the books and papers that they generate I would still not be able to say.


    But the topic of this thread is whether LENR is pseudoscience or not.

    So after a rethink of what I am trying to say hopefully these comments are generalised enough and “common sense” enough to promote general agreement.



    What I learned from Orbo;


    It is often impossible to prove to everyone that something is pseudoscience or even an outright scam. It is always possible to make the argument that if only more money or time had been available then miracles would have been delivered.



    What I learned from Rossi;


    YouTube videos with clever talk and pretty lights do not constitute proof or evidence.


    Are the claims exceptional? – then be sceptical.


    Is there money being taken? – then be sceptical.


    Is there some reference to a fundamental theoretical paradigm shift? – then be sceptical. There are always a dozen or so instances of parties with theories that require a paradigm shift in nuclear physics, they cannot all be right and maybe none of them are.



    Now, as I said above, it is difficult for a lay person to judge the validity of a science experiment. But you know what else I learned from Rossi – even university professors and savvy business men can be misled. So who is able to say whether something is valid or not? Which of us cannot be misled?


    Ultimately we have to put our trust in the scientific method.

    Eventually every endeavour will fall by the wayside or success will be the proof for all to see and replicate.

    I really hope that at least one of these bold energy projects succeeds because the world needs it.



    I said above that I would guess that LENR is on the scientific fringe but hopefully will become mainstream. So “scientific” and not “pseudo-science”.


    What I find compelling about LENR:-


    It is a community of researchers, based across the world, that has survived the slings and arrows aimed at it, and continued to make steady progress. And many of these people are clearly not in it for the money. To me this makes LENR more credible than a lone maverick or one fringe project.


    The impression I get is that the main criticism from the “scientific mainstream” is the problem of the Coulomb barrier. From what I have read it is not felt in the LENR community that a full on paradigm shift in nuclear theory is required but perhaps a reformulation or loophole might provide the answer. Again this seems to me to be more credible.


    Rather like Wegener, as I mentioned above, LENR is held back while it is in search of a convincing mechanism. But like Wegener, what it does have is evidence. As Jed has stated, there have been many results from thousands of experiments. The weight of evidence is the most persuasive thing for me, it supports the case that there is a real LENR process.


    Hopefully the ARPA-E LENR workshop will move things forward.

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