Testing the Rossi Ecat SKLed - Technical Discussions Only

  • This topic is for technical discussions only.
    Moderators : please delete any Rossi-Dissing posts.


    Suppose that Rossi actually delivers the SKLed.


    I have pre-ordered two. How should I test them?

  • The landing page for the Ecat SKLed is at

    Leonardo Corporation | Order Ecat Products


    The specification is at
    https://ecatorders.com/specifications/


    • Size: Length 15 cm, diameter 10 cm (6” x 4”)
    • Weight: 200 grams
    • Operational Lifetime: up to 100,000 hours
    • Lamp type: LED
    • Luminous Flux: >10,000 lm [ Edit : not certified ]
    • Luminous efficacy: 2,500 lm/watt
    • Light color: 5,000 K (cold white) [Spectrum not stated]
    • Beam angle: 60 degrees
    • CRI (color rendering index): 90
    • Power supply: 110–240V AC, 50/60 Hz, or 12 V [+- 3V] DC
      [ Select AC/DC at the time of ordering.
      I'll order one of each. ]
    • Power consumption: 3.9 W (+/- 10%)
    • Recyclable: Yes
    • Protection: IP65 (outdoor use)
    • Warranty: 3 years

      Note: I'm updating the spec in this post based on rossisez comments.
  • The input power is 4 watts. Supposing a maximum COP of 10, the system would have to handle 40 watts without over-heating.


    I see three main avenues:

    Optical -

    Measure the flux, compare it to a known lamp

    Here's the testing procedure for LED Fixtures

    https://www.lisungroup.com/wp-…tandard-Free-Download.pdf
    That's beyond my capability.

    Edit: Photovoltaic. (Suggested by Truth)

    Air Calorimetry: Wrap it in a black plastic bag / put it in a black box and see how much heat it generates.

    Water Calorimetry: Ditto, but dunk it in water.
    I have a Prominent Gamma pump which could handle this.
    (Assuming 40W and a convenient temperature rise of 10C the required flow would be about 5 l/hr ... well within Gamma's range)
    As an alternative, keep the lamp outside the "tank" and shine the light into the tank. That's the main avenue I'm investigating.

    (Note : Calle H on ecat world suggested using it as a heat generator : https://e-catworld.com/2021/10…heater-ever-made-calle-h/ )

  • This topic is for technical discussions only.
    Moderators : please delete any Rossi-Dissing posts.


    Suppose that Rossi actually delivers the SKLed.


    I have pre-ordered two. How should I test them?

    Our unwritten policy is that those who start a thread, moderate that thread. You decide what is appropriate. If you think someone is being disruptive, say so. If they are stubborn, we will intervene and either delete the post, or move it where it belongs.

  • Electrical : The SKLed works on 12V DC. I have a regulated power supply that I can use. (I have to dig it out .. I'm not sure if it displays amps. I think it goes up to 20V)

    Right now I'm planning analog-only. (Or disconnected-digital).

    I only need about 10% accuracy.

    I already have a 10,000 lumen comparator ..
    https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0…_yo2_dt_b_product_details

    I'd also wire it up to the regulated supply.


    though I'm not sure I believe them.

  • Already written here more of six months ago.



    This topic is for technical discussions only.
    Moderators : please delete any Rossi-Dissing posts.


    Suppose that Rossi actually delivers the SKLed.


    I have pre-ordered two. How should I test them?

  • Already written here more of six months ago.


    I added PV to the list of general methods.

    I'm not sure it will give an absolute power output, but could certainly be used to compare with a "calibration" lamp.

  • ... " In prospect, this work provided deeper understanding of the effect of the activator and sensitizer concentrations on photon upconversion resulting in a simple way to obtain high intensity NIR to UV upconversion for use in optical, chemical and biological applications."

  • Suspend a thin two-sided thermally conductive black body* plate in a vacuum chamber. You need one optically transparent at the IR thermometer wavelength, and at 5000K. Only 5000K is needed of the TC method is used.


    point a spot IR thermometer at one side of it.


    Place the SKLED a suitable distance away from the BB Plate such that the other side of the BB plate receives some proportion of the SKLED light.


    Switch the light on and off observing the time vs temperature graph of this plate as determined by the IR thermometer.


    Calibrate the plate power vs temperature by heating it using some known light source of roughly 5000K - e.g. a halogen bulb.


    Note that anisotropy in the SKLED output can pretty easily be estimated and corrected for.


    Variants:

    • Use a TC to measure the plate temperature instead of an IR thermometer. The TC output would need to go through thin wires.to minimise conduction. IR measurement has the merit that errors due to inhomegeneity in temperature distribution can more easily be determined.
    • Replace the plate by a sphere (I don't think this would help, and it would make some calcs more difficult).
    • Calibrate using a resistive heater instead of a light source. Heater wire could be bonded to the plate with some thin thermally conductive insulator, the whole thing painted.
    • Don't bother with vacuum chamber and hope convection effects can be calibrated out. (I prefer vacuum!).


    * e.g. a suitably painted copper leaf. BB at 5000K is required. calibrated absorption for the IR gun id also needed, if not using TCs.


    THH

  • The landing page for the Ecat SKLed is at

    https://ecatorders.com


    The specification is at
    https://ecatorders.com/specifications/


    • Size: Length 15 cm, diameter 10 cm (6” x 4”)
    • Weight: 200 grams
    • Operational Lifetime: up to 100,000 hours
    • Lamp type: LED
    • Luminous Flux: >10,000 lm
    • Luminous efficacy: 2,500 lm/watt
    • Light color: 5,000 K (cold white)
    • Beam angle: 60 degrees
    • CRI (color rendering index): 90
    • Power supply: 110–240V AC, 50/60 Hz, or 12 V DC
    • Power consumption: 3.9 W (+/- 10%)
    • Recyclable: Yes
    • Protection: IP65 (outdoor use)
    • Warranty: 3 years

    This spec is capable of various interpretations.


    If we use the correct one, then since lumens represent power at 683 lm / W we have specified power out / power in = 14.6


    However an incorrect specification would be to take the maximum output flux, and work out equivalent lumens for an isotropic source of that flux. This would be the apparent brightness.


    60 degrees cone wisth is 0.84 steradians, where the sphere is 4pi => 14.95 reduction in power needed.


    Typically, a beam angle of 60 degrees does not imply even illumination so there might be an additional factor, where the flux averaged over a 60 degree solid angle is actually only say 50% of the maximum intensity flux.


    So, using this alternative (incorrect, but often used) measure we require a COP of less than 1 - possibly as little as 0.5. That would still be impressive, normal lighting LEDs top out at a luminous efficiency of around 30%.


    Existing blue laser LEDs - which could be used here - allow about 60% luminous effiicency. So we are pretty close to meeting (with some creativity in measurement of beam angle possibly meeting) this alternative spec with blue laser light!


    https://collateral-library-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/asset_file/attachment/13679/Laser-Diode-Lighting-The-Potential-Future-of-High-Efficiency-Solid-State-Illuminationv_DIGITAL.pdf


    Perhaps the SKLED manufacturer could clarify that indeed this is the real light output in lumens as opposed the the equivalent output of an isotropic source with the same flux?


    EDIT - I am confused. The 60% efficiency source from that link looks like an LED (labelled SOTA LED), not a laser. Do 60% efficiency LEDs exist?

  • I added PV to the list of general methods.

    I'm not sure it will give an absolute power output, but could certainly be used to compare with a "calibration" lamp.

    If you are interested first of all to verify the main claim that is: Ecat-SKEld generates Energy Out>>Energy In, this is a robust way to check it, it's tricks-free and it doesn't need any calibration lamp.

    It needs only the starting check of no battery hidden inside or a long time test to exclude it.

    In any case this check must be done whatever kind of test you chose.

  • Clamp or tape a thin black disc to cover the light (..or <ahem> slide small trash pail over large lamp body), and IR the part covering the light outlet. Compare to 10000 lumen LED flashlight with cover. Compare brightness of two lamps without covers.

  • If you don't have a suitable light-meter there's a very old-school method of comparing brightness. Put a drop of white oil in the middle of a sheet of paper and arrange it between your 2 light sources. The paper becomes translucent and transmitted light from the brightest source will show up as a bright spot on the side with the less bright source. By altering the distances between spot photometer and the two light sources you can do some math and work out their relative brightness.


    Far from perfect but an interesting very low cost method.