Cavitation (sonofusion) reactor from B-J. Huang et al.

well what do you wanted to say by reverse neutron decay ( sorry for my blindness) ?

In this way could you write your equations ( postulates) for my better understanding ?

Thank you.

Quote from Drgenek

I like BJ Huang experiments as a reference type. It requires no input of electrical energy directly into the reaction chemistry. It proposes the reaction as a simple basis (reverse neutron decay) and has a single output of the 1st elementary step (production of oxygen-17). Further, the second step is a consequence of the 1st step. The fusion and then fission reactions based on oxygen-17. The chemistry and nuclear reactions are closed system. That is heat can enter the system and leave the system through the walls of system but evolution of carbon dioxide and of neon and lost of heat can be closed system. Finally, the probability that neon-22 and oxygen-17 are from sources other than transmutation seem vanishingly small. So, in a closed system, the reaction products are extremely convincing evidence of nuclear reaction.

It has an easy measurement of reaction for self-funded scientist. That is the production of carbon dioxide from water and from a metal containment devoid of carbon.

His practical use of heat exchange and cavitation through the fluid medium and measuring the gas contents is quite brilliant.
I hope to learn more and work with him and his team.
I wish I didn't miss his presentation live though, as I would have asked him a lot more questions.

Quote from Cydonia

well what do you wanted to say by reverse neutron decay ( sorry for my blindness) ?

In this way could you write your equations ( postulates) for my better understanding ?

Thank you.

Neutron decay produces a proton, an electron and an antineutrino. The reverse neutron decay would be a combination of a proton, an electron and antineutrino to form a neutron. Since the phat radiations from hydrogen ionization have quantized energies, one finds that in the phat state n=240, the energy is sufficient to reverse neutron decay. E=n²(~13.6 eV). For phats google Pharis Williams.

When a phat state of hydrogen decays, it produces radiation at those energies. So, in theory any phat state of hydrogen is a pseudo-neutron. Also, electrons appear to have phat states, pseudo-electrons. Electrons are repulsive to each other, but pseudo-electrons are attractive (fermions versus bosons). So, in theory a cluster of pseudo-electrons can form something like ball-lightening, or an EVO as named by Ken Shoulders.

If a force holds a cluster of electrons (actually pseudo-electrons) together, what is it? It isn't the strong force, the weak force or the electromagnetic force. Therefore, one proposes a form of gravity. Einstein spend his life looking for way to understand gravity as an extension of the electro-magnetic force. So, it would not be unreasonable that the force that hold a cluster of electrons together would be gravity but not universal gravity.

I have done the math elsewhere in this forum for electro-gravity. I have shown that a cluster of pseudo-neutrons are the likely explanation for the integer relationship between the sizes of Matsumoto's blackholes. I have shown that Ed Storms' MeV radiations from glow discharge are a function of phat states of hydrogen. I have shown by mass balance and stoichiometry that cold fusion is catalyzed by clusters in Santilli's intermediate fusion and in the case of AquaFuel.. Miley has data that shows these clusters occur in metal matrixes and their numbers correlate to fusion rates in electrolysis based LENR.

My modification of the cluster model proposes that pseudo-electrons and pseudo-neutrons form clusters. Their electro-gravity creates quantum states within the cluster, so the energies in the cluster do not interact thermally with the environment just as the quantum states of elements do not interact thermally with the environment. Since, the size of these clusters is very small, and they are electrically negative, positive charges are induced near them. Positive ions are much larger than an electro-gravity cluster (EGO, extreme gravitational object). The positive charges exclude each other in space (are packed densely about the EGO). Hence, the double layers as see by Safire. However, an EGO does have energies in the MeV range at its escape horizon and will radiate particle with MeV range energies (Storms data as above). Since, the energy distribution include MeV energies, fusion will proceed per our understanding of the coulomb barrier. Further, MeV range energies allow reverse neutron decay to produce pseudo-neutrons. Neutron can form but what is usual is pseudo-neutrons. Pseudo-neutron can fuse with oxygen-16 to form oxygen 17. Unlike neutrons, a cluster of pseudo-neutrons will decay; a cluster of only a few pseudo-neutrons will produce enough particle to develop pixel by pixel the complex images of Matsumoto's blackholes. The radiation from Matsumoto's blackholes is strange radiation. It is a massive radiation not electromagnetic and was described in great detail by Rout et al. This is the typical radiation from LENR which cause the voltage of the LEC.

I hope that answers your question.

Yes thank you, it well answered my question, thank you again.

Now as for all other theoricians ( Wyttenbach, EDO, others) only experiments could prove a way or not.

In this way, what kind of experiment could confirm your expectations ?

About me i asked more details from your thoughts but i still stay at some spallation involvements sometime.

Quote from Drgenek

Neutron decay produces a proton, an electron and an antineutrino. The reverse neutron decay would be a combination of a proton, an electron and antineutrino to form a neutron. Since the phat radiations from hydrogen ionization have quantized energies, one finds that in the phat state n=240, the energy is sufficient to reverse neutron decay. E=n²(~13.6 eV). For phats google Pharis Williams.

When a phat state of hydrogen decays, it produces radiation at those energies. So, in theory any phat state of hydrogen is a pseudo-neutron. Also, electrons appear to have phat states, pseudo-electrons. Electrons are repulsive to each other, but pseudo-electrons are attractive (fermions versus bosons). So, in theory a cluster of pseudo-electrons can form something like ball-lightening, or an EVO as named by Ken Shoulders.

If a force holds a cluster of electrons (actually pseudo-electrons) together, what is it? It isn't the strong force, the weak force or the electromagnetic force. Therefore, one proposes a form of gravity. Einstein spend his life looking for way to understand gravity as an extension of the electro-magnetic force. So, it would not be unreasonable that the force that hold a cluster of electrons together would be gravity but not universal gravity.

I have done the math elsewhere in this forum for electro-gravity. I have shown that a cluster of pseudo-neutrons are the likely explanation for the integer relationship between the sizes of Matsumoto's blackholes. I have shown that Ed Storms' MeV radiations from glow discharge are a function of phat states of hydrogen. I have shown by mass balance and stoichiometry that cold fusion is catalyzed by clusters in Santilli's intermediate fusion and in the case of AquaFuel.. Miley has data that shows these clusters occur in metal matrixes and their numbers correlate to fusion rates in electrolysis based LENR.

My modification of the cluster model proposes that pseudo-electrons and pseudo-neutrons form clusters. Their electro-gravity creates quantum states within the cluster, so the energies in the cluster do not interact thermally with the environment just as the quantum states of elements do not interact thermally with the environment. Since, the size of these clusters is very small, and they are electrically negative, positive charges are induced near them. Positive ions are much larger than an electro-gravity cluster (EGO, extreme gravitational object). The positive charges exclude each other in space (are packed densely about the EGO). Hence, the double layers as see by Safire. However, an EGO does have energies in the MeV range at its escape horizon and will radiate particle with MeV range energies (Storms data as above). Since, the energy distribution include MeV energies, fusion will proceed per our understanding of the coulomb barrier. Further, MeV range energies allow reverse neutron decay to produce pseudo-neutrons. Neutron can form but what is usual is pseudo-neutrons. Pseudo-neutron can fuse with oxygen-16 to form oxygen 17. Unlike neutrons, a cluster of pseudo-neutrons will decay; a cluster of only a few pseudo-neutrons will produce enough particle to develop pixel by pixel the complex images of Matsumoto's blackholes. The radiation from Matsumoto's blackholes is strange radiation. It is a massive radiation not electromagnetic and was described in great detail by Rout et al. This is the typical radiation from LENR which cause the voltage of the LEC.

I hope that answers your question.

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Quote from Cydonia

Yes thank you, it well answered my question, thank you again.

Now as for all other theoricians ( Wyttenbach, EDO, others) only experiments could prove a way or not.

In this way, what kind of experiment could confirm your expectations ?

About me i asked more details from your thoughts but i still stay at some spallation involvements sometime.

The problem isn't what kind of experiment confirms expectations but rather what experiment could provide practical results. For example, one expects enormous amounts of energy from nuclear reactions per E=mc². However, energy converts back to mass as strange radiation from EGO catalyzed fusion/fission. For example, Santilli's intermediate fusion example in his patent has enough transmutation in two minutes to produce energy equal to a bomb 1/10 the size that which was dropped on Hiroshima, but the measured energy excess was a few thousand BTU. Because the multitude of states produced for the strange radiation product compared to few states of the reaction before fusion/fission. In other words, most of the expected energy becomes entropy. We need a process to convert strange radiation back to larger pseudo-particles, hence releasing energy or converting strange radiation mass to energy.

So, what to do? I don't know yet. I suspect that LEC or some variation of BJ Huang is on the right track.

When you are talking about strange radiations, how are you sure there are really unknown ?

Could we not talking about neutrinos for example ?

In another words what are specificities of these strange radiations vs "normal " other radiations ?

Quote from Drgenek

The problem isn't what kind of experiment confirms expectations but rather what experiment could provide practical results. For example, one expects enormous amounts of energy from nuclear reactions per E=mc². However, energy converts back to mass as strange radiation from EGO catalyzed fusion/fission. For example, Santilli's intermediate fusion example in his patent has enough transmutation in two minutes to produce energy equal to a bomb 1/10 the size that which was dropped on Hiroshima, but the measured energy excess was a few thousand BTU. Because the multitude of states produced for the strange radiation product compared to few states of the reaction before fusion/fission. In other words, most of the expected energy becomes entropy. We need a process to convert strange radiation back to larger pseudo-particles, hence releasing energy or converting strange radiation mass to energy.

So, what to do? I don't know yet. I suspect that LEC or some variation of BJ Huang is on the right track.

Quote from Cydonia

When you are talking about strange radiations, how are you sure there are really unknown ?

Could we not talking about neutrinos for example ?

In another words what are specificities of these strange radiations vs "normal " other radiations ?

Ask a physicist if there is any kind of radiation that isn't either electromagnetic or a particle which is part of the standard model. You would get a range of answers, but they all basically say one cannot imagine what else there could be. Here is the problem. If a cluster of pseudo-neutrons decays as a blackhole until it has completely evaporated what was evaporated. S. Hawking's best hypothesis is Hawking radiation which is electromagnetic. If Hawking radiation could be neutrinos rather than electromagnetic that would be interesting. But LENR radiation is stranger than neutrinos.

The radiation from LENR was examined in detail by Rout et al. They ruled out electromagnetic radiation and known types of particle radiation. It is very strange that the radiation is something else.

Based on Rout et al, the radiation is defected by a magnetic field, so it probably has charge. It can cause greater reaction with film when accelerated by an electric field of either polarity, so it likely has both polarities. It can pass through paper that light and chemicals cannot, therefore it likely has mass but a very small mass. So, it is likely a gas that isn't chemical (composed of elements)

All masses interact via impulse. A vacuum is a means of removing mass, so the vacuum prevents the LEC potential difference, by removing the carrier of electrolyte charge. So, logically the radiation from LENR is a charge carrier.

It would need to shuttle electrons at a slower rate than metals to act as an electrolyte in gas. LENR radiation works as a better electrolyte as follows: air>oxygen>hydrogen> vacuum, nitrogen, helium and argon. This suggests that the electrolyte is electrochemically reactive. That of course would have to be true for the charge carrier to be an electrolyte. However, this electrolyte acts with hydrogen which is electropositive and oxygen which is electronegative. That combination makes the charge shuttling in air significantly greater than when shuttling in oxygen. By comparing ionization potentials of the gases above, one finds the electrolyte ionization potential is between 13.6 and about 14.53 eV. So, it reacts with nitrogen but only when oxygen is present, and it doesn't react with argon and helium whose ionization potentials are higher than14.53 eV.

As a whole range of specifications, these observations make LENR radiation very outside of normal. I hope that answers your question.

Quote from Drgenek

The problem isn't what kind of experiment confirms expectations but rather what experiment could provide practical results. For example, one expects enormous amounts of energy from nuclear reactions per E=mc². However, energy converts back to mass as strange radiation from EGO catalyzed fusion/fission. For example, Santilli's intermediate fusion example in his patent has enough transmutation in two minutes to produce energy equal to a bomb 1/10 the size that which was dropped on Hiroshima, but the measured energy excess was a few thousand BTU. Because the multitude of states produced for the strange radiation product compared to few states of the reaction before fusion/fission. In other words, most of the expected energy becomes entropy. We need a process to convert strange radiation back to larger pseudo-particles, hence releasing energy or converting strange radiation mass to energy.

So, what to do? I don't know yet. I suspect that LEC or some variation of BJ Huang is on the right track.

My approach is to thermalize it by the use of a large mass energy screening material like graphite. In theory it should thermalize a majority of radiation and transition the emitted energy to the thermal spectrum. I haven't worked out the math for specific heat capacity of the said carbon mass, or even began experimenting with it yet, except for some graphitic nanoparticles. I want to run it through some people who can help predict the outcome as well as have all the sensor equipment in place to proper record the data. Taking care to not destroy the experimental apparatus and benchtop in the process would be ideal *:D.

If these strange radiations are intertwined with neutrons somehow, a water medium should help to slow down any high energy neutrons if they are present and a graphite sleeve should increase the heat production of these reactors as a black body absorber. While I don't think there is Fission chain reaction products being emitted, strong thermal emissions are pretty well documented, so focusing on transitioning the energy into the thermal state would be novel I believe. I hypothesize using a graphite shield should increase efficiency, and perhaps the COP of these systems?

Happy experimenting, whether they may take place in the mind or on a bench top.

Thank you to have take time for these long and full replies.

Unfortunately for my side i have no particular thoughts, beliefs to share in this way.

Quote from Drgenek

Ask a physicist if there is any kind of radiation that isn't either electromagnetic or a particle which is part of the standard model. You would get a range of answers, but they all basically say one cannot imagine what else there could be. Here is the problem. If a cluster of pseudo-neutrons decays as a blackhole until it has completely evaporated what was evaporated. S. Hawking's best hypothesis is Hawking radiation which is electromagnetic. If Hawking radiation could be neutrinos rather than electromagnetic that would be interesting. But LENR radiation is stranger than neutrinos.

The radiation from LENR was examined in detail by Rout et al. They ruled out electromagnetic radiation and known types of particle radiation. It is very strange that the radiation is something else.

Based on Rout et al, the radiation is defected by a magnetic field, so it probably has charge. It can cause greater reaction with film when accelerated by an electric field of either polarity, so it likely has both polarities. It can pass through paper that light and chemicals cannot, therefore it likely has mass but a very small mass. So, it is likely a gas that isn't chemical (composed of elements)

All masses interact via impulse. A vacuum is a means of removing mass, so the vacuum prevents the LEC potential difference, by removing the carrier of electrolyte charge. So, logically the radiation from LENR is a charge carrier.

It would need to shuttle electrons at a slower rate than metals to act as an electrolyte in gas. LENR radiation works as a better electrolyte as follows: air>oxygen>hydrogen> vacuum, nitrogen, helium and argon. This suggests that the electrolyte is electrochemically reactive. That of course would have to be true for the charge carrier to be an electrolyte. However, this electrolyte acts with hydrogen which is electropositive and oxygen which is electronegative. That combination makes the charge shuttling in air significantly greater than when shuttling in oxygen. By comparing ionization potentials of the gases above, one finds the electrolyte ionization potential is between 13.6 and about 14.53 eV. So, it reacts with nitrogen but only when oxygen is present, and it doesn't react with argon and helium whose ionization potentials are higher than14.53 eV.

As a whole range of specifications, these observations make LENR radiation very outside of normal. I hope that answers your question.

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Quote from Cydonia

Now as for all other theoricians ( Wyttenbach, EDO, others) only experiments could prove a way or not.

Sonofusion is done since > 30 years. Most serious experiments done with D₂O did show 4-He production in line with energy produced. Thus no fantasy with mystic radiation.

Only people with lousy equipment use such last resorts to explain the missing success.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Sonofusion is done since > 30 years. Most serious experiments done with D₂O did show 4-He production in line with energy produced. Thus no fantasy with mystic radiation.

Only people with lousy equipment use such last resorts to explain the missing success.

How does fusion produce neon as was detected in the Cavitation (sonofusion) reactor.

When a star’s core runs out of hydrogen, the star begins to die out. The dying star expands into a red giant, and this now begins to manufacture carbon atoms by fusing helium atoms.

More massive stars begin a further series of nuclear burning or reaction stages. The elements formed in these stages range from oxygen through to iron.

oxygen atom + helium atom fusing to give a neon atom: ¹⁶O + ⁴He → ²⁰Ne via the alpha process

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_process

The alpha process, also known as the alpha ladder, is one of two classes of nuclear fusion reactions by which stars convert helium into heavier elements. The other class is a cycle of reactions called the triple-alpha process, which consumes only helium, and produces carbon.^[1] The alpha process most commonly occurs in massive stars and during supernovae.

Type II supernovae mainly synthesize oxygen and the alpha-elements (Ne, Mg, Si, S, Ar, Ca, and Ti).

From the preprint:

Quote

Cavitation may induce low-energy nuclear reaction (LENR) through implosion of water vapor

bubbles using various techniques. We conducted experiments using two reactors made from multiple-pipe heat exchanger and found that the heat exchange process produces peculiar excess heat and nuclear transmutation. Recently, we have tested another 8 reactors. Interestingly, these reactors also produce non-condensable gas. We suspected that they include Ne22 and CO2 and are from nuclear reaction of water.

Nuclear transmutation in copper pipe (C increases 2-5 times, O increases 3-6 times, Fe increases 4 times, new elements: P, S, Ca)

By the way, LeClair produced all the elements in the periodic tables including transuranic elements using cavitation of water as verified by analysis made by Ed Storms.

How is this done using fusion? Can someone here explain how this is done?

Well, I think the field will do a more big step when it will ALSO consider Lenr reactions without any hydrogen involvement . That will allow to give us the complementary datas we still need for a full understanding.

Quote from axil

How is this done using fusion? Can someone here explain how this is done?

We already explained this many times. All A+H*,A+D* reactions are exothermic and thus you can easily produce all elements. H*-H* either adds like 2 neutrons or as n,p more rarely as single particle. D* can add as p-p or p-n.

Quote from Diadon Acs

My approach is to thermalize it by the use of a large mass energy screening material like graphite. In theory it should thermalize a majority of radiation and transition the emitted energy to the thermal spectrum. I haven't worked out the math for specific heat capacity of the said carbon mass, or even began experimenting with it yet, except for some graphitic nanoparticles. I want to run it through some people who can help predict the outcome as well as have all the sensor equipment in place to proper record the data. Taking care to not destroy the experimental apparatus and benchtop in the process would be ideal *:D.

If these strange radiations are intertwined with neutrons somehow, a water medium should help to slow down any high energy neutrons if they are present and a graphite sleeve should increase the heat production of these reactors as a black body absorber. While I don't think there is Fission chain reaction products being emitted, strong thermal emissions are pretty well documented, so focusing on transitioning the energy into the thermal state would be novel I believe. I hypothesize using a graphite shield should increase efficiency, and perhaps the COP of these systems?

Happy experimenting, whether they may take place in the mind or on a bench top.

this kind of so-called "radiation shield" has ever been considered by us when we feel something strange in energy balance during LENR and some strange results of SEM/EDX on the ruptured copper pipe. just wait and see with more test results.

Quote from axil

How does fusion produce neon as was detected in the Cavitation (sonofusion) reactor.

When a star’s core runs out of hydrogen, the star begins to die out. The dying star expands into a red giant, and this now begins to manufacture carbon atoms by fusing helium atoms.

More massive stars begin a further series of nuclear burning or reaction stages. The elements formed in these stages range from oxygen through to iron.

oxygen atom + helium atom fusing to give a neon atom: ¹⁶O + ⁴He → ²⁰Ne via the alpha process

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Neither neon-20 or neon 21 was detected only neon-22.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Sonofusion is done since > 30 years. Most serious experiments done with D₂O did show 4-He production in line with energy produced. Thus no fantasy with mystic radiation.

Only people with lousy equipment use such last resorts to explain the missing success.

Another specification of the strange radiation from sonofusion is afterheat. As I detailed above, strange radiation is chemically reactive; without such an effect there would be no LEC voltage. That reactivity produces a chemical of some kind which when heated decays and produces heat. See ENECOtheseventh.pdf (lenr-canr.org) and look at page 361 "Predictable and reproducible heat".

Whatever the chemical, is it can't be identified by element composition. Also consider Aqualfuel, the heat/torque it produces in a test engine is 3.02 times its predicted value based on its chemical composition. After the reaction that produced it, it can be kept then burned at some later point. Hence, it is a fuel. Nuclear sourced energy is being converted to potential energy (a conclusion based on mass and energy balance). Further, a kinetic equation for the reaction of the afterheat chemical shows a dependence on dissolved gas in water in case of sonofusion and has a covariance with the amount of nitrogen produced by transmutation in the case of Aquafuel. In both Aquafuel and gas produced in sonofusion, the fuel to energy reaction is codependent on the concentration of hydrogen. (i.e hydrogen even in the form of water.)

Other examples of this reactive non-elemental chemical are US 2010/0209360A1 and magnecules of R Santilli. These are chemical compounds that seem to have magnetic based bonds. See Alternative Energy Through the Discovery of the Fifth State of Water - Water Ion Technologies

I think the delusion is not accepting the abundance evidence that there is some mass that has an origin in nuclear transmutation and has an origin in pseudo-neutrons that become blackholes. Further that this mass can be converted to energy. It is known that blackholes are a source of dark energy. Further the LEC uses a diffusible energy source. It would be great if we could label this mass as neutrinos or something we are familiar with but that just is not the case.

Quote from Drgenek

It is known that blackholes are a source of dark energy.

We (standard model) know nothing real about black holes. Also nothing about dark energy.

What is dark? Originally classified as energy produced by non visible matter. What means it does not radiate in the 400..2000nm range...

A large part of this matter is H*-H* or H*_x. Some believe that most matter outside stars is made of it.

Of course Santilli first discovered H*-H* but he did believe its a single H* atom what is not possible.

So we here see a clash of missing classic physics knowledge and new physics understanding - about H*-H* .

Quote from Drgenek

Also consider Aqualfuel, the heat/torque it produces in a test engine is 3.02 times its predicted value based on its chemical composition.

I never read this figure from Santilli and nobody did write a paper with this claim, Classically magnefuel did compress gasoline by about 10% what resulted in 10% more energy/volume but not relative to mass.

Quote from Wyttenbach

I never read this figure from Santilli and nobody did write a paper with this claim, Classically magnefuel did compress gasoline by about 10% what resulted in 10% more energy/volume but not relative to mass.

I can’t check it right now, but if I recall correctly, one paper published by Santilli in the IJHE states that the weight per cubic feet, at the same pressure, of one mole of Magnehydrogen vs normal hydrogen in one paper is 4x. This is way more than 10%.

As said: Here we want to see facts not claims.

Quote from Curbina

I can’t check it right now,

Quote from Wyttenbach

As said: Here we want to see facts not claims.

The results were from a lab analysis, not theoretical. Santilli explains these results are in agreement with his theory of the magnecular bond, but the results are experimental, not theoretical.