Thanks for adding this. My own preference would be to use a larger diameter cylinder with gas inlet/outlets at the ends rather than a 'closed one end' tube.. This would allow for easier purging with hydrogen or other chosen gases. George's electrodes are tubular with sharp edges, other designs may be possible, but the concentration of current at the edges obviously reduces the voltages required to initiate sparking. This is certainly the case with needle-point electrodes.
George Egely's Magic Wand
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Talking about leakage, it reminded me to remind Alan about parasitic inductances, capacitances. Make sure of basic "hygiene" rules are respected, differential/symmetrical lines, no big wire loops in the high speed current path, always check the return path of current, attention to parasitic capacitances, no close parallel wires where they're not suppose to couple, at these high voltages and high dv/dt, high di/dt events many unwanted effects can take place.
Crocodile clip quick-connect in a random spider-web fashion might not be the best way to create the circuit, regardless of how simple the circuit is.
Please just make sure not to confuse oscillations through parasitics with the "small explosions" that suppose to give the excess juice.
On that topic...
For all circuits you get parasitic inductance and capacitance effects.
However for the high voltage stuff - capacitance will predominate.
Even there - if you are dividing down to some low voltage in a probe - inductive pickup could be significant around the divided down part of the circuit. And always beware of earth connections/loops. There should NOT be any earth loops, except that two scope probes to different parts of circuit will often make one, so that the noise injected comes from both. For best measurement, measure only one thing at a time choosing an earth point close to what you want to measure. Note however that earth noise is really not going to matter for high voltage measurements, as long as you do not inject noise into the ground side of the probe.
the rule is:
- low voltage => inductive pickup an issue
- high voltage (or high impedance) => capacitive pickup an issue.
- and of course you gte both much of the time...
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Added HV insulation, gas ports and stuff to hint on assembly procedure.
Regarding assembly procedure: solder wires that connect to cell tubes to wires that are pressed through rubber cap, place black rubber o-ring inside test vile then insert all assembly into vile and press inside o-ring. O-ring is supposed to allow rolling in and gripping the tube but provide resistance to rotation, thus gap adjustment screw should not rotate assembly, instead adjust gap.
I also had thoughts on gas purging, this design should be in vertical position (rubber cap down), so H2 gas rises, then a couple of vacuuming and filling cycles should provide good enough gas composition for basic tests. It's a compromise to simplify construction.
Regarding BOM: Borosilicate test viles, rubber caps are cheap; wires, plastics are insignificant cost, electrode tubes can be stainless steel or aluminium, based on Egely's long video. I have no idea about the secrets that enable the "small explosions".
This is still just in "idea" stage, I'd increase commitment if at least somebody of third-parties would report positive test results.
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This is still just in "idea" stage
Hi Tibi.fusion - I'd like to make a couple of comments.
In a low pressure chamber you will always have to contend with (a) corona, and (b) space charge effects.
The two tags, circled in red, are likely to induce corona discharge - as will any exposed thin wires, and sharp metallic corners. Watch George's video again, and notice that he highlights the fact that as the gas pressure reduces, coronas can end up dominating.
The other major problem is space charge. This can create the kind of perverse discharge behaviour described in another part of George's video - where, in one design of cell, the arcs would continue to originate from the rear ends of the electrodes - despite their distance from the central "spark gap". Space charge will affect all low pressure chambers, and can also have varying effects at higher pressures - depending on the particular gas constituents.
George has had to contend with these problems (as well as plenty of others), and develop practical solutions, through a long series of hardware tests. He should be congratulated on his patience, imagination, and tenacity - as I'm sure a lot of other people would have given up long ago.
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Hi Tibi.fusion - I'd like to make a couple of comments.
In a low pressure chamber you will always have to contend with (a) corona, and (b) space charge effects.
The two tags, circled in red, are likely to induce corona discharge - as will any exposed thin wires, and sharp metallic corners. Watch George's video again, and notice that he highlights the fact that as the gas pressure reduces, coronas can end up dominating.
The other major problem is space charge. This can create the kind of perverse discharge behaviour described in another part of George's video - where, in one design of cell, the arcs would continue to originate from the rear ends of the electrodes - despite their distance from the central "spark gap". Space charge will affect all low pressure chambers, and can also have varying effects at higher pressures - depending on the particular gas constituents.
George has had to contend with these problems (as well as plenty of others), and develop practical solutions, through a long series of hardware tests. He should be congratulated on his patience, imagination, and tenacity - as I'm sure a lot of other people would have given up long ago.
Thanks for the feedback! Dr. Egely commented on 33:48 timestamp of long video (ICCF-24 Presentation - Dr George Egely (final version)) the glow discharge low pressure region is to be avoided. Pics show pressures as high as 0.5bar, this is ark discharge region and I don't expect corona effects to dominate at all. This is also why despite HV insulation in this design is visually added in some places, I'd consider skipping the implementation.
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In the drawing competition, you are not on head alone.... Now that you have proven to us that you know how to use a mouse, let's move on to the real world, the laboratory one.
Thanks for the feedback! Dr. Egely commented on 33:48 timestamp of long video (ICCF-24 Presentation - Dr George Egely (final version)) the glow discharge low pressure region is to be avoided. Pics show pressures as high as 0.5bar, this is ark discharge region and I don't expect corona effects to dominate at all. This is also why despite HV insulation in this design is visually added in some places, I'd consider skipping the implementation.
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And what could be the possible reactions ? From Jaitner:
Some examples for fusion via Coulomb tunneling are given here:
(1) 2 × 2H → 4He + 23 . 85 MeV
…
(5) 1H + 58Ni → 59 Cu + 3 . 42 MeV ,
59Cu + e− → 59Ni + νe + 4 . 80 MeV ,
59Ni + e− → 59Co + νe + 1 . 07 MeV
(6) 1H + 62Ni → 63Cu + 6 . 12 MeV
…
(9) 27Al + 27Al → 54Fe + 21 . 86 MeV
Because hydrogen will be in use, then maybe some amount of (1) is also possible. Because the electrodes are made of stainless steel, maybe also (5) and (6) are possible.One interesting reaction is (9), not in this case, but maybe for some other experiments, because simple aluminium would be enough.
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And what could be the possible reactions ? From Jaitner:
Some examples for fusion via Coulomb tunneling are given here:
(1) 2 × 2H → 4He + 23 . 85 MeV
…
(5) 1H + 58Ni → 59 Cu + 3 . 42 MeV ,
59Cu + e− → 59Ni + νe + 4 . 80 MeV ,
59Ni + e− → 59Co + νe + 1 . 07 MeV
(6) 1H + 62Ni → 63Cu + 6 . 12 MeV
…
(9) 27Al + 27Al → 54Fe + 21 . 86 MeV
Because hydrogen will be in use, then maybe some amount of (1) is also possible. Because the electrodes are made of stainless steel, maybe also (5) and (6) are possible.One interesting reaction is (9), not in this case, but maybe for some other experiments, because simple aluminium would be enough.
Could it be any of above, even more?
Reading through Jaitner Lutz's very nice paper:
https://condensed-plasmoids.com/condensed_plasmoids_lenr.pdf
and considering other information sources, for example:
External Content www.youtube.comContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.perhaps anything can happen in loop once conditions are created for fusion/transmutation between:
-H and H;
-H and products;
-products and products;
-H and metal electrode;
-product and electrode;
-electrode and electrode;
-etc. (have I listed every variation)?
and fission/decay of heavy products in other products going back in the loop.
The trick is how to create reliably the conditions.
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I've made some tweaks to this design
- spot weldings to reduce corona discharge
- remove o-ring, add zip ties to facilitate anti-rotation
- larger diameter electrodes, (aluminium as per Correa papers)
- vile size reduction
I have my BOM ready.
Also looking into a cheap 2 stage vacuum pump (used for HVAC) setup.
Still gathering info...
I've tried to compare the electrode design of Egely, Correa, and Papp based on the online stuff I've found. Then supplement with theories on mechanisms of a nuclear event, then thought on how those events could create a potential/electromotive force between electrodes. Now I'm starting to think this cell design is not the best to try to explore the realm of the unknown. Maybe simple needle electrodes would be better to generate the ark discharge and attempt to create CPs/EVOs; then surround with X Y Z plane electrode pairs and X Y Z axis magnetic pickup coils to diagnose macro after effects. Think of CERN LHC but on a kindergarten level, one-man effort scale.
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I suggest a look at this paper, where needle-point electrodes were used.
https://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DufourJcoldfusiona.pdf
Also another paper on page 482 (yes!) of this collection of excellent papers from the LENR-CANR library run by Jed Rothwell.
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NEDOthesixthina.pdf
If anybody cares to browse through this book (above) btw there are some very interesting papers.
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I suggest a look at this paper, where needle-point electrodes were used.
https://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DufourJcoldfusiona.pdf
Also another paper on page 482 (yes!) of this collection of excellent papers from the LENR-CANR library run by Jed Rothwell.
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NEDOthesixthina.pdf
If anybody cares to browse through this book (above) btw there are some very interesting papers.
Thanks for the suggestion! I still have to digest them! Both these papers seem to be a continuation of a first publication in 1993, I think one needs to start with reading that, otherwise key info is missing. (Dufour, J. (1993). Cold Fusion by Sparking in Hydrogen Isotopes. Fusion Technology, 24(2), 205–228. doi:10.13182/fst93-a30228). Still additional googling managed to find additional info that helped to understand cell construction:
Just so happened I came across the day before Dufour paper recommendation with a similar ring electrode construction when looking into condensed plasmoids:
http://bjm.scs.illinois.edu/papers/Dubowsky2020.pdf
It seems to be not listed in Rothwell's lib.
Years ago, when I started looking in Ni-H heat yielding designs I pulled the Britz bibliography summary (authors, title, abstract, keywords, etc.) and parsed it into a local database so I can filter out what I want. It's crude but it worked. Maybe if I'll work on it I could share the tool, someone else could find it useful. It'd be nice if Jed Rothwell had an advanced query feature online.
Also web-scraped Rothwell's bibliography summary
, but have not parsed it and merged it into the local DB (laziness + Britz list was already plentiful). Anyhow, running a query now such as give me all that contains any of "discharge", "glow", "ark", "spark", "plasma", then keep only those that contain "excess" I get 40 papers already (file attached). They also have a lot of references. Of course query is simplistic and returns also electrolysis systems. What I want to say I don't want to see myself going in a rabbit hole just reading instead of constructing. It's difficult to balance the small hobby/spare time I have, I'd be grateful if forum audience could point me to a carefully selected, key set of papers. It took Egely decades to read it all, reconstruct, experiment, explore the vast parameter space, persist in face of failure. I also can only congratulate him and thank him for coming forward. What I can do as a curious folk is to put some skills to work and perform a variation of a proposed experiment. What the LENR field can benefit from is more experiments (peer reviewed), right? -
BTW, one of the Dufour papers mentions a patent, I have been unable to trace it, but it would be of interest.
J. Dufour Patent WO 94/10688 "Energy source system and process", Filed 26 October 1992,
International publication date I I May 1994 -
BTW, one of the Dufour papers mentions a patent, I have been unable to trace it, but it would be of interest.
J. Dufour Patent WO 94/10688 "Energy source system and process", Filed 26 October 1992,
International publication date I I May 1994It should be this one:
WO1994010688A1 - Energy source system and process - Google Patents
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In the drawing competition, you are not on head alone.... Now that you have proven to us that you know how to use a mouse, let's move on to the real world
my personal learning curve.... a neat design is one thing, a working experiment is a different ball game.
For our process, a simple quartz tube (better visibilty for gamma sensor) will do the job.
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When doing these condensed plasmoid experiments maybe Jaitner's warnings also should be taken seriously.
They can be found in ch. 1.4 The Main Properties of CPs, e.g:
"
The ionizing and re-condensing capability of CPs is responsible for one of the most perplexing properties of CPs: CPs
are able to bore holes several millimeters deep through even the hardest materials. Thus CPs can escape all sorts of
enclosures. This is rather problematic, because CPs are harmful to biological tissue and pose a serious health risk.
"
I suppose Egely is aware of those possible threats and knows how to utilise CPs safely in his device.
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A few months ago you mentioned and showed a (from memory) a double-triode glass bottle circuit that was allegedly 'over unity'. Could you post it again, please. Somebody might just fancy building one.
Hi Alan. Did you mean this one?
https://www.lenr-forum.com/attachment/22400-hf-box-lab-tests-pdf/
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Looking through the lab report from "Millenergy", again, it seems they were unable to see anything unusual in the the way power was handled in the device.
QuoteNo energy anomalies of any kind were seen even though this device was very interesting, in general, as it combined moderately high voltage with high frequency in a fashion used by Henry Moray and others in the 1920’s, and not seen around here in a long time.
The RF bursts measured by the lab were around 30-32 MHz - which given the device's age, and possible drift, suggests it might have originally been meant to operate in the Ham 10 meter (28 MHz) band - as a morse transmitter. It certainly looks like it might have been home-built by an early radio amateur - right down to the old Taylor T-55 tubes:
Taylor_T-55_1939_catalogue.pdf
The provenance of this device is a little vague. My guess is that it was spotted by Bruce Perreault in a junk shop, or garage sale, and, as it looked a bit peculiar (and Moray-like), he snapped it up. I guess that connecting the output of any 10 Meter transmitter across a lamp could give similar weird results.
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That;s it, thank you.
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Hi. I read some papers and thought to myself there must be something going on if so many minds have (re)discovered the same effect and bothered documenting it, also filing patents on it. Worth committing to lab work...
Continued to work on BOM and have ordered a batch of stuff (vacuum system, DIY electrolysis parts, cell construction parts).
Egely's chronology together with Jaitner's chronology (https://condensed-plasmoids.com/history.html) on the subject seems to be a potent mix of information pool.
Currently looking into "how to create" these CPs, EVOs. Correa and Ken Shoulders patents are nice.
I wish Jaitner had more details: page 6/96 of https://condensed-plasmoids.com/condensed_plasmoids_lenr.pdf
Egely referred at 24:32 of long video (ICCF-24 Presentation - Dr George Egely -final version-) to the book of von Engel, this might hide some key info. Can anybody help track down pdf form of "ELECTRIC PLASMAS: THEIR NATURE AND USES" by A. von Engel, 1983, ISBN 9780800230760, 0800230760?
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urrently looking into "how to create" these CPs, EVOs. Correa and Ken Shoulders patents are nice.
In that case you should read this ... the complete Ken Shoulders.
