The perpetual “is LENR even real” argument thread.

  • Which may be the case?

    [The case that there are many different discoveries.]


    I doubt it.


    First, because most of these names describe very similar experiments such as Pd-D electrolysis. In some cases they called the phenomenon "cold fusion" at first and later decided to call it something else.


    Second, McKubre's "conservation of miracles" principle. It seems unlikely there are many different, unrelated, previously undiscovered ways to produce a nuclear effect in hydrides.

  • New open source paper out by Mike Staker of Loyola University (Baltimore). Have not heard from him in a few years. He received a little help from Carl Page's Anthropocene:


    How to achieve the Fleischmann-Pons heat effect | Elsevier Enhanced Reader


    Abstract:


    To understand if cold fusion produces nuclear energy, a calorimeter was designed for

    electrolysis of Pd in heavy water with a precision of ± 0.5%: it exhibited excess power levels

    of between 20 and 240 W/cm3 accompanied by excess heat of 150 MJ/cm3 or 14 000 eV/atom

    of Pd, corroborating the original findings and verifying a nuclear source. An extra (other

    than commonly used Pt/H2O) control experiment using Pd/D2O lacked essential conditions

    necessary for producing the Fleischmann-Pons heat effect and so did not yield the

    Fleischmann-Pons heat effect, and neither did all Pt/H2O controls. Ten hard-to-achieve but

    vital conditions are disclosed for a recognizable (measurable) Fleischmann-Pons heat ef-

    fect; and these resulted in 100% reproducibility in this study. The phenomenon should not

    be rejected as a valid topic of research: it is not Rutherford's moonshine and rejection was

    categorically premature.


    Conclusions:


    The Fleischmann-Pons heat effect in electrolysis of Pd in heavy water at excess power levels of between 20 and 240 W/cm3 accompanied by measured excess heat of 150 MJ/cm3 or 14 000 eV/atom of Pd with precision of ± 0.5% is presented, verifying and collaborating the original findings and indicating the source of the energy is nuclear. An extra (other than commonly used Pt/H2O) control using Pd/D2O lacked essential conditions and did not yield Fleischmann-Pons heat effect, and neither did all Pt/H2O controls. Ten hard-to-achieve but vital conditions are disclosed for a recognizable (measurable) Fleischmann-Pons heat effect; and these resulted in 100% reproducibility within this study. The phenomenon should not be rejected as a valid topic of research: this was categorically premature.

  • I copied Shane D. ’s post here because we have another recent replication of Fleischmann and Pons, with 100% reproducibility and what might be called the “10 commandements” for a succesful replication. Some of these commandements deal specifically with maintaining a close control of the meniscus of the liquid level. Totally recommended read for our skeptics.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • I copied Shane D. ’s post here because we have another recent replication of Fleischmann and Pons, with 100% reproducibility and what might be called the “10 commandements” for a succesful replication.

    The paper says that is important for high precision, not as a way to enhance reproducibility per se. Quoting the paper:


    "Maintaining meniscus level via a Harvard Apparatus Model 22 Digital Syringe pump outfitted with two 100 ml syringes was the single most important aid to high precision since small deviations of meniscus position made large differences in measured T: details are in next section."


    You could have high reproducibility with low precision, although I would not recommend it.


    F&P achieved high precision while letting the liquid level rise and fall with their half silvered cells. The water level never falls as far as the half-silvered window. Very little heat escapes above the window.


    Even though the window improves precision, Fleischmann still recommended checking the water level and refilling every day. I think it was every day. Maybe every 2 days? It was a regular schedule. They recorded the water level carefully. They had trouble seeing it, because the fully silvered portion of the cell covers the water level. Fleischmann told me they used a round dental mirror to peek into the cell to see where the water was. He said the people at the NHE did not do it right, and they did not control the water level or know where it was.


    In a fully silvered cell (a Dewar), very little heat escapes from the walls. Much of it goes out by the wires to the electrodes and instruments, in the lid. This is unpredictable. Somewhat uncontrollable. It is a bad way to do the experiment.


    I discussed the window here:


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJreviewofth.pdf

  • I wasn't sure where to put this - a grainy but very historic video.


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  • I wasn't sure where to put this - a grainy but very historic video.


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    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    As it turns out to be my Birthday, Is a great talking point for me on that ocasion. I prefer to remember this historic date than my own b-day, for real.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Hi,


    Can anyone out there explain to an intelligent layperson how what Prof. Staker refers to as crossing the miscibility gap increases the D/Pd ratio? The phase diagrams are Latin, I'm afraid; I am still in water, ice, steam world. For bonus points can anyone explain what the delta phase is, or is believed to be? And, since Prof. Staker's paper documents additional requirements for replication, is anyone here able to share any news of replication experiments following Prof. Staker's guidance?


    Thanks in advance.

  • The delta phase is something that nobody except Fukai and Staker have claimed exists (as far as I am aware. Staker claims that vacancies (mossing atoms) in the lattice create tunnels formed in the Pd sublattice, H/D nuclei can enter these tunnels where they experience fusion.


    To quite Ed Storms.(private email)


    "During the nearly 100 years Pd has been studied by many people using both X-ray and neutron examination of PdH over the full range of its existence, evidence for this phase has never been seen in the composition range shown on the Staker phase diagram. The accepted literature shows that PdH has only 2 phases, both of which are fcc. In the alpha phase, the H are located at random locations between the Pd atoms. In the beta phase, the H and Pd occupy separate sublattices, each of which is fcc. Vacancies exist in the H sublattice from about D/Pd=0.6 to 1.0 under the conditions used to produce LENR. Very few if any vacancies form in the Pd sublattice."


    In other words Ed asserts the sub-units of the lattice do not form joined-up tunnels as Staker suggests, and the expansion in volume of the Pd is due to the creation of cracks (or cleavage planes) in the structure. So- to link back to your ice phase- these are not caves, but crevasses.

  • Thank you! So would it be fair to say that "phase" in this case is referring to a particular ordered arrangement of atoms and vacancies which may exist at particular ratios of deuterium to palladium in particular temperature and pressure zones? And does miscibility refer to the ability of two such phases to mix? It is hard for me to make sense of what it would mean for two modes of arrangement to mix, since I imagine mixing as randomizing any structured arrangement. I'm guessing there's a problem with what I'm imagining.

  • So would it be fair to say that "phase" in this case is referring to a particular ordered arrangement of atoms and vacancies which may exist at particular ratios of deuterium to palladium in particular temperature and pressure zones?

    The alpha and beta phases are certainly described that way. In my opinion it's not really correct (though convenient) to call these phases, since they are both examples of a disordered solid phase. As a solution containing different amounts of a solute might be (is that where the use of the term 'miscibility' arises? I think what Ed is suggesting is that the the 'delta phase' is not really that at at all, that the high ratio of loading with D/H is due to a process more like embrittlement where cleavage between crystal planes occurs that adsorbs D/H - thous levering the crystal lattice further apart. This can exist alongside the alpha and beta phases.

  • Thank you, Alan. That's very helpful in trying to visualize what is believed to be happening as more D/H enters a lattice. I'll describe my layperson's mental image and perhaps you'd be kind enough to say what might/might not fit where? I picture the lattice as a tub of ball bearings, say, with magnetized parts at the poles and four points along the equator of each ball bearing resulting in a "crystal" structure. There are vacant spots throughout, and an external atmosphere containing half-sized ball bearings (the D/H). If I understand you correctly, the hypotheses are saying that at certain D/H densities, those vacant spots form channels through which additional D/H can travel, and/or create enough weakness in the lattice that it breaks apart along a collection with a high percentage of vacant spots as (shifting the metaphor) perforated forms are easier to separate along the perforations. I don't understand (trapped, perhaps, by these images) why having a vacancy occupied would weaken the structure further than the vacancy itself. What is the effect of the D/H on the metal atoms that reduces their attachment to one another? Does the D/H exert force against them? How?


    I find it easy to imagine the vacancies themselves acting to make it easier to split the lattice. I find it hard to imagine the role of the D/H.

  • I find it easy to imagine the vacancies themselves acting to make it easier to split the lattice. I find it hard to imagine the role of the D/H.

    in the same way you find vacancies (defects) on the fcc lattice, so there are faults within the bulk crystalline structure of the metal. It is not one perfect single crystal, and those faults are what Ed Storms' metallurgical processing seeks to increase in number. It is there at the discontinuities created by these domain boundaries within the crystal that D/H nucleons can gather (their electrons having left home to join the Fermi sea in the bulk) and these same nucleons create what is effectively the hydraulic pressure that creates more cavities within the bulk metal and cause it to expand.


    Think of reading a book while lounging on the beach. Any of the pages of the book might contain microscopic surface vacancies in the paper that equally microscopic grains can occupy, and probably will. But the intruding grains that don't fit these imperfections will create tiny gaps between pages that allow still more sand grains to enter the domain of the book. So at the end of the say your book contains hundreds of grains of sand, and is a little thicker than it was at breakfast time.

  • Thanks, that's a helpful picture, but why do the D/H electrons leave home and not hang around their nucleons, when I'd have thought that a nearby positively-charged nucleon was irresistible?

    Theories suggest they join the general electron cloud within the metal lattice. So I suspect they wander off and wander back, or possibly others move in. This 'looser connection' is one explanation for something called 'electromigration' which is important in LENR, and may help to explain the effects seen in the experiments of Francesco CELANI . This is where the negatively charged electrons collectively migrate towards regions with more positive charges under the influence of an electric current.

  • Think of reading a book while lounging on the beach. Any of the pages of the book might contain microscopic surface vacancies in the paper that equally microscopic grains can occupy, and probably will. But the intruding grains that don't fit these imperfections will create tiny gaps between pages that allow still more sand grains to enter the domain of the book. So at the end of the stay your book contains hundreds of grains of sand, and is a little thicker than it was at breakfast time.

    Rather a good analogy I think. What say you Ed ?