COLD TALK VIDEOS DISCUSSION THREAD

Quote from Curbina

Interview to George Egely conducted by Alan Smith during the opportunity of both meeting during the IWHALM September 2022.

It says "This video is private."

TM 31.52" Its OK to call it "Jed Rothwell Cheap" just don't call it "Cheap Jed Rothwell" ... Alan

The investment of JR Alan and many others so far in LENR has not been cheap,,

otherwise it would never be worthwhile..

I might summarise the main points for the nonfluent English hearers..

Maybe I'm just an inveterate pessimist, but I can't help thinking of the claim from the 1950s that atomic energy would make electricity "too cheap to meter".

Quote from JedRothwell

It says "This video is private."

It was the version posted at ANV channel during IWAHLM, they must have turned it private. It will be available at LENR-forum Youtube Channel ane linked in this thread after edition by Diadon Acs .

Quote from Frogfall

"too cheap to meter".

I don't think they are doing oneliners , especially not Jed

sorry I don't have a Jed Rothwell(Lite) version

STEVE BANNISTER

"will the new energy source replace carbon sources ?

that's my primary interest from my research

but secondarily

the implications for future economic growth are stunning now

like Second Industrial Revolution at much larger scale

6:50

Jed Rothwell

"estimate and uh where do you think that's a pretty big range where do you see it's going to fall in that range" (Ruby)

well it goes in stages

start with a cold fusion cell assume that looking at the cost of materials the cost of manufacturing similar objects such as batteries

and you can begin to estimate how much it will cost

uh look at also the highest power we've achieved so far and assumed they will all achieve that same level then okay

what kind of heat engines are you going to use

just assume that they will be the conventional mechanical ones we have now

well we know how much they cost they sell thousands and they sell millions

when you include automobiles

so we can estimate the cost of those things today

is 300 to 500 per kilowatt hour the cost of an automobile engine used as

a generator is ten dollars per kilowat

t uh kilowatt not kilowatt hour capacity

that is so it's it's fairly easy to make a rough estimate of the cost of cold fusion

after it after it becomes widely used

when when you start manufacturing millions of generators

uh it comes in at about a hundred two hundred dollars per kilowatt of capacity

uh then when you develop more advanced heat engines such as thermoelectric

devices things like that the cost starts to come down some more

the initial cost would be around 20times less than Today's Energy

that would be 10 or 20 years after it's introduced

that's how long it takes uh technology to become

commoditized commodity that's what we call it in the computer business uh computers were introduced around personal computers around 1980

by 1990 or 1995 they they they were far cheaper

and they were also interchangeable and the patents were expiring

so anybody could make one that's what will happen

with cold fusion that also happened with the Model T Ford the 1908 to 1924

thecost fell and fell and fell and then it reached the low point it

happens with a lot of Technology

uh so anyway that's after about 10 or 20 years it will be roughly 20 times

cheaper than Today's Energy and then additional

improvements can be predicted and a hundred years from now

it'll probably be hundreds of times cheaper but that's the

basis of the it's a very simple-minded analysis it really is I

'm just looking at the cost of materials and we all know

what generators cost because they sell lots of them already

it's easy it's easy to project that that's all there is to it

9:49

ALAN thank you thank you Jed I think we perhaps we could go back to Steve

Quote from Frogfall

Maybe I'm just an inveterate pessimist, but I can't help thinking of the claim from the 1950s that atomic energy would make electricity "too cheap to meter".

It's good to have a healthy skepticism on these things. I wonder if it was open sourced back then if it would still be an issue?

Getting heat from heavy element fission has always had a problem - in that the cost (in money and human lives) of mining the ores, processing the fuel, building, running and keeping reactors safe, reprocessing the fuel, and safely looking after all the dangerous waste (high medium and low level) that is generated at every stage was, and still is, difficult to justify. The whole industry inculcated a culture of lying and denial - and true costs were largely hidden by the close association with (and cross funding of) classified weapons work. I've seen it from the inside, and it is no laughing matter

If LENR research does result in safe, cheap and abundant energy, then it will be wonderful - and much needed. If it can also help in other, non-energy, areas (such as radioactive waste remediation) then that will be even better.

Open sourcing is good - but we shouldn't underestimate the human tendency to mess things up, by groups of people seizing control of other material resources, creating new artificial shortages, and ensuring the continuation of large disparities in wealth.

I agree about the cuture. I spent 6 months or so working for a sub-contractor on a centrifuge programme at Harwell in the early 60's. The department chief offered me a job, but I declined, for two reasons. I was probably too rackety to pass the vetting required, and also a few old timers said 'once you are in, you can never leave' - which was really the deciding factor. I was too young to join the priesthood.

Quote from Frogfall

Maybe I'm just an inveterate pessimist, but I can't help thinking of the claim from the 1950s that atomic energy would make electricity "too cheap to meter".

That was Strauss. He was a smart person, right about many things. It turned out he was wrong about nuclear fission. We need to cut him some slack. It can be difficult to predict the future of technology in the early stages. I have sometimes been as wrong as he was! Arthur Clarke was the most prescient person I know of, but he made some predictions that missed by a wide margin, such as increased use of hovercraft. They don't even use them in the English Channel anymore.

Strauss was wrong about fission, but right about wind turbines. In Texas and elsewhere they are too cheap to meter at night. The power companies make energy free. They encourage customers to dry clothes at night, and run the air conditioner full blast. They charge a flat fee for the month.

There is also rooftop solar which is expensive but no one can meter it. You own it. I expect people will own cold fusion cogenerators. So, they will not be "too cheap to meter." They will be "impossible to meter." How much energy you use will be no one's business. (It may be their internal control computer will keep track of overall use and energy expenditure for maintenance purposes, like a car odometer.)

Quote from RobertBryant

I don't think they are doing oneliners , especially not Jed

sorry I don't have a Jed Rothwell(Lite) version

Can you touch up that transcript to remove the "uh" hesitation sounds? That's kind of embarrassing.

How did you make that, anyway?

We are opening this thread for discussion of the COLD TALK Videos as we want to keep the videos in a single thread without comments for easy reference, and we can discuss them ad libitum here.

Short but stunning Interview to Yasuhiro Iwamura by Alan Smith at IWAHLM.

Quote from Shane D.

New video. Take some time to watch. I think you will enjoy it. We liked it so much it will be displayed on the start page for awhile. Check out the new LF logo Diadon Acs created for the opener. We are getting this interview stuff down to a science

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I really enjoyed this interview. I think we can all agree that any technology that allows for abundant and low cost energy (with the added bonus of a negligible environmental impact) will have a huge impact in the world’s economy. How exactly, is anyone’s best guess, but the exercise presented by Stephen and Jed in this interview is a balanced and weighted starting point of conversation. As I once wrote, when asked about the potential impact of the now defunct Steorn Orbo technology, if it were real, “complete global scale reconfiguration of the current production scheme for food/biological materials supply is probably the only thing one can say with any reasonable degree of certainty.”

Quote from Curbina

Short but stunning Interview to Yasuhiro Iwamura by Alan Smith at IWAHLM.

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This interview is reassuring in many ways as Iwamura is not one that is going to back up any commercial oriented statememt without being absolutely certain of what he is saying.

Quote from Curbina

This interview is reassuring in many ways as Iwamura is not one that is going to back up any commercial oriented statememt without being absolutely certain of what he is saying.

I agree. Iwamura-san is an academic researcher working for a serious university, not employed as a member of the sales team. He is presenting again at the RNBE meeting in Paris, it will be (possibly) an opportunity to ask more questions.

Quote from JedRothwell

Can you touch up that transcript to remove the "uh" hesitation sounds? That's kind of embarrassing.

How did you make that, anyway?

YouTube generated those Transcripts with there automatic captioning system. The Iwamaru video I tried another method using Adobes Premiers captioning editing and uploading the text file to YouTube. I will try to do that know on but I apologize for the captions not being very clean on your video JedRothwell

It would have added a few more hours of work using the new method and I am shaking off the rust of my video editing skills.
There might be a way to go into YouTube and touch it up but I am busy editing some other videos atm. I will look into it and see if I can edit the text files natively on YouTube or upload a new transcript.

I hope the video did you guys justice in your thought processes and helped convey your information adequately.
Kind regards,

Diadon

This is Ed Storms thought on the Bannister/Rothwell discussion...

Excellent interview. Jed has made an important contribution by making the information about LENR easily available on http://www.LENR.org and by showing how the phenomenon would have important economic advantages.

Although the energy source itself would be cheap, rather like solar energy, the apparatus needed to support the process can be expected to be complex. For example, the power needs to be controlled and the material in which LENR happens needs to be replaced as it becomes degraded. Although the D2 fuel is cheap, the heat still has to be converted to electric power that matches the load. So, the cost of development will not be cheap. Nevertheless, LENR is the only energy source that can save civilization from eventual collapse.

Meanwhile, the rest of us have to solve the problem of showing how LENR can actually be made useful.

Ed