COLD TALK VIDEOS DISCUSSION THREAD

  • Although the energy source itself would be cheap, rather like solar energy, the apparatus needed to support the process can be expected to be complex. For example, the power needs to be controlled and the material in which LENR happens needs to be replaced as it becomes degraded.

    That is true of all energy systems. Your automobile produces less power as the engine and transmission wear out. Especially my 1994 Geo Metro did as the clutch wore out. Feedback methods control for this. A standby generator produces 19.5 kW maximum with natural gas, or 22 kW with propane. It adjusts automatically.


    Although the D2 fuel is cheap, the heat still has to be converted to electric power that matches the load.

    All heat engines have to do that. The methods are well understood. I assume a cold fusion boiler will be used with a steam piston or turbine. It will have to vent excess steam from time to time. They all do. The heat source cannot be turned down fast enough when demand falls. To turn up rapidly, you need a head of steam.


    I guess a thermoelectric device just generates a lot more waste heat as demand drops. No idea really, but I am sure someone knows how to regulate it. The energy goes somewhere!


    So, the cost of development will not be cheap.

    The cost of developing the cold fusion cell will not be cheap, but the heat engine regulation and feedback control technology is 250 years old, first invented by James Watt. Of course it can always be improved.

  • Here is an improved transcript. Way too many words . . .



    STEVE BANNISTER


    "will the new energy source replace carbon sources ? That's my primary interest from my research but secondarily the implications for future economic growth are stunning now like Second Industrial Revolution at much larger scale



    6:50


    Jed Rothwell


    ". . . estimate and where do you think that's a pretty big range where do you see it's going to fall in that range" (Ruby)



    Well, it goes in stages. Start with a cold fusion cell. Assume that looking at the cost of materials the cost of manufacturing similar objects such as batteries and you can begin to estimate how much it will cost. Look at also the highest power we've achieved so far and assumed they will all achieve that same level. Then okay, what kind of heat engines are you going to use? Just assume that they will be the conventional mechanical ones we have now. Well, we know how much they cost. They sell thousands, and they sell millions when you include automobiles. So we can estimate the cost of those things today is 300 to 500 per kilowatt hour. (I meant kilowatt not kilowatt hour.) The cost of an automobile engine used as a generator is ten dollars per kilowatt . . . capacity. That is so it's it's fairly easy to make a rough estimate of the cost of cold fusion after it after it becomes widely used. When you start manufacturing millions of generators, it comes in at about a hundred two hundred dollars per kilowatt of capacity. Then when you develop more advanced heat engines such as thermoelectric devices things like that the cost starts to come down some more.


    The initial cost would be around 20 times less than today's energy. That would be 10 or 20 years after it's introduced. That's how long it takes uh technology to become commoditized -- commodity -- that's what we call it in the computer business. Computers were introduced around personal computers around 1980 by 1990 or 1995 they they were far cheaper, and they were also interchangeable and the patents were expiring. So anybody could make one. That's what will happen with cold fusion that also happened with the Model T Ford the 1908 to 1924. The cost fell and fell and fell and then it reached the low point. It happens with a lot of technology. So anyway that's after about 10 or 20 years it will be roughly 20 times cheaper than today's energy and then additional improvements can be predicted and a hundred years from now it'll probably be hundreds of times cheaper but that's the basis of it . . . It's a very simple-minded analysis it really is. I'm just looking at the cost of materials and we all know what generators cost because they sell lots of them already. It's easy it's easy to project that that's all there is to it



    9:49



    ALAN thank you thank you Jed I think we perhaps we could go back to Steve

  • Maybe I'm just an inveterate pessimist, but I can't help thinking of the claim from the 1950s that atomic energy would make electricity "too cheap to meter".

    My own guess is that the diffusion of commercial LENR products across society/industry would be slow enough that the immediate impact (in a macroeconomic sense) would be a sustained disinflationary impulse, which would mean higher real disposable income, and thus standards of living; but not ‘free energy’. This as opposed to an ‘everything in voluminous abundance’ kind of scenario.

  • Hi, I watched the video (was not real time? just a "premiere"?), and when talking of the strange radiation, a theory of many electrons being emitted was clearly not clear for me

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    Could someone explain it, maybe with schematics ?

    I've read the matching paper, and I did not caught that "many electrons"... is ther a story of "coherence" ?


    sorry to be so not-a-physicist. :S

    “Only puny secrets need keeping. The biggest secrets are kept by public incredulity.” (Marshall McLuhan)
    twitter @alain_co

  • AlainCo


    I'm sure you read about the LEC, the work of Frank Gordon and Harper Whitehouse - the 'battery' that collects electrons from hydrogen-loaded metal electrodes. In case not there's a presentation here.


    Ed is saying that all working LENR systems do that- and he has been measuring electrocal output in his experiments too.


    IWAHLM Assisi 2022 ppoint.pdf

  • After have had a deeper look on this report, i have to say that together electrode and the counter one are massive.

    I meant a lot of atoms, nucleons, because the length.. In this way it didn't surprised me to see that the second better result was done by a lead/lead couple.

    Since 1989, most experiments have taken into account too little reactive metal, i think.

    It reminds me the talk I had with Matt Trevithick explaining the very good calorimeters they had built but capable of being loaded with only very little amont of powder in fact.

    The mass effect has never been really mentioned, I think, in the thousands of papers I have read on the Lenrs since the beginning.


  • After have had a deeper look on this report, i have to say that together electrode and the counter one are massive.

    I meant a lot of atoms, nucleons, because the length.. In this way it didn't surprised me to see that the second better result was done by a lead/lead couple.

    Since 1989, most experiments have taken into account too little reactive metal, i think.

    It reminds me the talk I had with Matt Trevithick explaining the very good calorimeters they had built but capable of being loaded with only very little amont of powder in fact.

    The mass effect has never been really mentioned, I think, in the thousands of papers I have read on the Lenrs since the beginning.

    I had similar reservations about galvanic responses and familiarities with things like aluminum air batteries.

    Research Rabbit Hole

    Frank Gordon I am sure has very extensive knowledge about all this though with such a deep background in Electrochemistry.
    The understanding of how these metals can interact without giving up electrons is a fascinating question though especially in a lot of new frontiers of material science.
    Is is possible to make micro antenna that can channel exotic forms of vacuum energy densities?
    It all feels so science fiction, but that is how science fact is often created right?
    Asking nature interesting questions and seeing what she says is a lot of fun, wouldn't you agree?


    Cheers to our future created in these precious present moments my friend.

  • NASA has tested a SABERS semiconductor battery with a density of as much as 500 Wh / kg - GAMINGDEPUTY
    Although NASA is mainly associated with sending people or devices into space, the agency’s area of ​​operation is much wider. The National ...
    www.gamingdeputy.com

    I had similar reservations about galvanic responses and familiarities with things like aluminum air batteries.

    Research Rabbit Hole

    Frank Gordon I am sure has very extensive knowledge about all this though with such a deep background in Electrochemistry.
    The understanding of how these metals can interact without giving up electrons is a fascinating question though especially in a lot of new frontiers of material science.
    Is is possible to make micro antenna that can channel exotic forms of vacuum energy densities?
    It all feels so science fiction, but that is how science fact is often created right?
    Asking nature interesting questions and seeing what she says is a lot of fun, wouldn't you agree?


    Cheers to our future created in these precious present moments my friend.

  • The Parchi interview will premier on YT in 100 minutes. Very informative. I suggest you watch it. You may recall that he, along with partners Vassalo/Righe, reported preliminary positive results at ICCF24. Alan Smith and rubycarat were the LENR Forum hosts.


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  • The Parchi interview will premier on YT in 100 minutes. Very informative. I suggest you watch it. You may recall that he, along with partners Vassalo/Righe, reported preliminary positive results at ICCF24. Alan Smith and rubycarat were the LENR Forum hosts.


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    The XRF results on the surface of the Nickel electrode are impressive, I wonder how can you “explain away” those dramatic changes.


    Before:


    After:



    I know XRF is not great for accurate determination of mass, but you can be sure if it says an element is there, it is there.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • I know XRF is not great for accurate determination of mass, but you can be sure if it says an element is there, it is there.

    Handheld XRF is only as good as the standards and blanks plus the skill of the operator.

    I already explained how to fake percent level Pt results that are not there at all with Selsun Blue.

  • Handheld XRF is only as good as the standards and blanks plus the skill of the operator.

    I already explained how to fake percent level Pt results that are not there at all with Selsun Blue.

    As I already said, I agree they are not accurate, as the % are relative to the elements present, but they can identify elements that are there from what is not there with high reliability.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • As I already said, I agree they are not accurate, as the % are relative to the elements present, but they can identify elements that are there from what is not there with high reliability.

    They can be incredibly accurate and precise when steps are taken to qualify the data received, etc.

    For As and Ag, I can do +/- 1 ppm down to 3 ppm actual concentration, for example, with a common handheld model. Backed up by wet chemical and fire method analyses.

    Some elements work better than others, depending on specifications. The matrix type is a critical consideration and the calibration should use a similar matrix, and directly compared samples should have the same matrix as the calibration. (Powder vs metal, etc). Even the sample crystallography and grain size affects the results.

  • They can be incredibly accurate and precise when steps are taken to qualify the data received, etc.

    For As and Ag, I can do +/- 1 ppm down to 3 ppm actual concentration, for example, with a common handheld model. Backed up by wet chemical and fire method analyses.

    Some elements work better than others, depending on specifications. The matrix type is a critical consideration and the calibration should use a similar matrix, and directly compared samples should have the same matrix as the calibration. (Powder vs metal, etc). Even the sample crystallography and grain size affects the results.

    I am fully aware of all that. Still, getting the results Parchi showed by mistake is out of the picture.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • I am fully aware of all that. Still, getting the results Parchi showed by mistake is out of the picture.

    I disagree. It is easy. I had a client request $200000 of additional assays to prove what I already told them and demonstrated by the elemental lines on the XRF, which was that tungsten interference was making fake platinum results on the XRF. I would have run 10 samples instead of over 2000, but we sure did prove my point with the extra data.

    I am not saying these results are wrong, but it takes a bit more work to show that it is right.

  • I disagree. It is easy. I had a client request $200000 of additional assays to prove what I already told them and demonstrated by the elemental lines on the XRF, which was that tungsten interference was making fake platinum results on the XRF. I would have run 10 samples instead of over 2000, but we sure did prove my point with the extra data.

    I am not saying these results are wrong, but it takes a bit more work to show that it is right.

    From finding Pt in a very complex matrix of Pepto Bismol to finding a lot of things previously not there in a rather simple close to pure Nickel Electrode, you are not conparing apples to organes,’younare comparing apples to whales.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • From finding Pt in a very complex matrix of Pepto Bismol to finding a lot of things previously not there in a rather simple close to pure Nickel Electrode, you are not conparing apples to organes,’younare comparing apples to whales.

    Simply put, interference and matrix effects can strongly affect XRF results unpredictably so methods that mitigate or complement the method are necessary to obtain actionable data.

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    Regarding: At 9:12 in the video, abundant high kinetic electrons as a product of the Reaction.



    In contrast to a nuclear energy mechanism that supports the reaction where nuclear binding energy is carried by high kinetic energy neutrons, clear thinking analysis of the data views the LENR reaction as a carrier of its energy using high kinetic energy electrons. This electron energy is not a product of a nuclear reaction, electron energy is a product of a vacuum energy extraction process.



    In simple terms, vacuum energy is transferred to an approximate fixed number of electrons and the increased in electron energy of these electrons means an increase in reaction voltage. The reaction will always produce a voltage generator. Electron flow count will result in an approximate fixed current as constrained by the amount of free electrons associated with matter involved in the reaction.


    As stated in the video, voltage increase will always mark the presence of an active LENR reaction. An example of this voltage increase over fixed amounts of current is clearly seen in the Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)

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