ENG8 - new plasma energy system

If we take in account that ENG8 is confirmed and promising, Clean Planet already confirmed and promising , Rossi's way finally could now.. Now what should come from USA apart universities or AI smokes ?

Especially when we consider that maybe 85% of money invested in Lenr came from this side..

Quote from Gerard McEk

The fact that Dr. Jean-Paul Biberian witnessed/validated this test for a company that may invest in ENG8 and was positive about the results gives me 100x as much confidence in that it seems to work then what Andrea Rossi did with the Twizy car demonstration.

Unfortunately Dr. Biberian did not formally confirmed this openly here, but maybe he can share what he saw here on this site, when ENG8 allows this.

I believe Alan Smith is also familiar with ENG8 and I would welcome his opinion about this progress.

Still, seeing the response of ENG8 on Jed Rothwell’s comment, I wonder why ENG8 shares these developments publicly. Why not keep things secret until they enter the commercial phase?

Quote

If you keep things too secret there is never a commercial phase

I’m not so sure about that Alan. Obviously if you want to enter the commercial phase you need publicity, but in the development phase…?

I understand they are sure that fusion takes place, obviously without the radiation that normally comes with it. Do they have any idea how that fusion is being accomplished? Why there is no radiation?

Quote from teppo

IE's article on the subject:

I thought "IE" meant Infinite Energy! I would have heard about this if it had been Infinite Energy.

Anyway, this article quotes J-P.:

“We can consider that the device can operate indefinitely without any external input power,” said Dr Jean-Paul Biberian, an LENR expert who was commissioned by an investor to conduct technical due diligence on an EnergiCell.

That is poorly expressed. The meaning is unclear --

We "can consider" appears to mean we can think about it, or entertain the possibility. It does not usually mean, "we know" or "we observed."

"The device can operate indefinitely . . ." It can operate indefinitely? Or it did?

"Biberian, an LENR expert who was commissioned . . ." Is this LENR? Is there evidence for that? What evidence? What exactly did Biberian do? I believe he used a Seebeck calorimeter to detect heat. He is an expert in that. He might not be an expert in measuring electric power, which is what this gadget produces. Anyway, we cannot evaluate his conclusion unless he provides much more detail and sample data.

The rest of the article has mainly non-technical assertions, which are beyond the scope of the discussion here. Except for this:

The company also claimed that previous independent validations, carried out by IEP (Portugal) and other renowned test laboratories, have also proved that EnergiCells produce net energy with safe levels of emissions that are well within EU limits.

That can't be. There can be no EU limits or standards for this device. The cause of the excess electric power is totally unknown to science. No theory can explain it. You cannot set a limit or an industrial standard when no one knows what causes the heat. This would be like setting a standard for x-rays a week after Roentgen discovered them, long before anyone knew they were dangerous. No tests by independent laboratories or regulators have been performed. No one can say with any assurance what particles or rays are emitted. Furthermore, Haslen Back told me the gadget emits gamma rays at high power, which means it cannot be considered safe! It has to be some sort of nuclear reaction.

Frankly, this statement is preposterous. And deceptive, and very, very foolish. As I have said, if the public finds out a reactor based on unknown science that might emit gamma rays is operation, 50 police cars and hazmat bomb squads will show up; the reactor operators and Haslen Back will spend the next several year in prison; and any possibility of introducing this technology will be lost.

Quote from Gerard McEk

Do they have any idea how that fusion is being accomplished?

They may think they have an idea, but before a single reactor can be sold, the entire physics establishment and every government regulator will have to agree about how it works. It will have to be exhaustively tested. The public will not stand for anything less.

Quote from Gerard McEk

Why there is no radiation?

As I noted above, Haslen Back told me the gadget emits gamma rays at high power. So there is radiation in some conditions. Any radiation ever in any condition means it is nuclear. So it will have to be completely understood and controlled, and every expert in every university, government lab, and regulatory lab public and private will have to agree it is understood and controlled.

In short, this is not 1895. In 1895, in the months after Roentgen announced the x-ray, physicists and doctors worldwide began using x-rays with abandon. They had no idea x-rays can cause harm. Edison accidentally killed a man using them. He deeply regretted this for the rest of his life. He quickly abandoned x-ray research. Such irresponsible use of an unknown energetic phenomenon would NEVER be allowed today. Nor should it be. It is unnecessary. The cost of testing the gadget, establishing a theory, and ensuring it will cause no harm is trivial. The profits from the gadget will exceed that cost every week from now to the far distant future. There is absolutely no reason not to act prudently and to follow the laws and regulations. These laws were established by our ancestors at a terrible cost. As they say, safety regulations were written in blood.

Another well-known example of the tragic irresponsible use of unknown energetic phenomena was the use of radium-based health drinks, and radium painted watch faces. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls)

Quote from JedRothwell

They may think they have an idea, but before a single reactor can be sold, the entire physics establishment and every government regulator will have to agree about how it works. It will have to be exhaustively tested. The public will not stand for anything less.

How about a Manhattan type project?

The Manhattan Project and Robert Oppenheimer: Lessons in Project & Team Management

In the annals of history, few projects have had as profound an impact on the world as the Manhattan Project. This top-secret initiative, which led to the…

innovation-waves.com

I don’t know if the device reviewed by Jean Paul Biberian is the same that was tested by UL people in Portugal. I think that is perfectly plausible it is within the boundaries of LENR, specially if you have studied and ponder the work of Lutz Jaitner and his team (which also entails well with the analysis by Bob Greenyer and the MFMP).

If the device of ENG8 is indeed nuclear and if it can potentially produce dangerous radiation and in potential enormous amounts of energy, then there is indeed a potential thread. Because it seems relatively easy to produce without ‘rocked science’, it is a thread for the whole world. That may be the reason Andrea Rossi decided the energy comes from ‘Zero Point’ and Aureon decided to treat radioactive waste instead of produce energy with devices that seemingly have the same principle.

I agree with Jed Rothwell that the working must be studied until we are totally clear about it and before real accidents happen.

Quote from sam12

How about a Manhattan type project?

Quote from Alan Smith

There are still occasional discoveries in London's former watchmaking district (Clerkenwell) of buildings formerly used for dial painting where the floorboards are radioactive

Watchmakers are still dealing with radium in watches today.

Quote from Alan Smith

There are also Tritium-doped versions of this Rolex - made for the SAS.

Tritium watches are still sold.

Tritium Illumination - T25 VS T100

Everything you need to know about Tritium Illumination in NITE Watches. From safety to the science behind the self-powered glow in the night. Learn more today.

us.nitewatches.com

Tritium emergency exit signs are also sold.

Self-Luminous Tritium Exit Signs | Emergency Lights Co. by TLS

Quote from sam12

How about a Manhattan type project?

I think it will be more like IBM's development of the IBM 360 computer, which cost more than the Manhattan Project. I mean that it will mostly be done by corporations with their own money. I do not think the government will be the main source of funding, although it will have to participate at various stages, such as setting up regulations. Self-driving cars began with a small government project. A contest, actually. Automobile manufacturers then took over development, but governments worldwide have set safety standards, allowed the first use of self-driving cars in various cities, and done various other things.

The IBM 360 was done by one company, and it became the preeminent standard for computers for many years. This is because computers have to be compatible with one another. Companies do not want to rewrite software for different brands of computers, or different models from one company. There is no need for generators or space heaters to be compatible with other brands, so there is more leeway to develop many forms of cold fusion, in different configurations. Therefore, I do not expect one company to dominate the cold fusion market the way IBM once dominated computers.

Quote from Frogfall

Good to hear it. Can you tell us what it is then?

Quote from sam12

How about a Manhattan type project?

https://innovation-waves.com/2…-project-team-management/

It probably has already been done for this field as it would fall under the atomic energy category.
The atomic secrecy acts of 1946 and 1954

There is another classification of science they also oversaw, but we try not to discuss that science in this forum.

Quote from JedRothwell

Tritium watches are still sold.

Tritium is safe! It just emits an electron that wont escape the case. Not so for radium's gammas that are lot and quite high (187keV) energy!

Quote from Wyttenbach

Tritium is safe! It just emits an electron that wont escape the case.

Yes. They wouldn't be selling Exit signs if it were not safe.

At the Japanese Fukushima reactor site they are gradually releasing water contaminated with tritium. They are doing it over 30 years. Longer than the half-life, 12.3 years, so most will be gone before they finish releasing the water. Some journalists and people in the internet posted messages accusing the Japanese government of poisoning the entire Pacific ocean. Those people do not realize that tritium forms high in the atmosphere from cosmic rays. It combines with oxygen, and falls to earth. This natural background mass of tritium is far higher that what the Fukushima releases will add.