ENG8 - new plasma energy system

    Well strange anyway if things become non disclosed don't bother more speculations..

    In this way, why you tried a link with the Rayleigh plasma which runs at very lower pressure ?

    Well, after took time to read the patent i can say that basically this is like Muzuno, a process of discharges in water.

    However the team used one more electrode to stabilize "enlarge the plasma area".

    In fact the vapor creation during discharges implies a plasma unstabilized this is why the team used another AC circuit to help for that.

    About the Vortex it helps too to keep an enlarged plasma however maintly to well tune the cavity size in water by cavitation ( Storms NAE).

    In parallel, some gases are included in the water by pressure.

    Again, some magic powders are added by electrode decomposition.

    My feeling.. very complex engineering now if they have found some xsh...

    Quote from Cydonia

    why you tried a link with the Rayleigh plasma which runs at very lower pressure ?

    Rayleigh "Activated Gas" is not just plasma. There is a combination of ionisation, dissociation, and excitation. The effect is visible, and lasts for many minutes, when at very low pressure - which is how it was originally discovered, and studied.


    The ionisation, dissociation, and excitation also happen at higher pressures - although probably in different proportions. However the subsequent thermalisation, recombination, and relaxation happen so quickly that the process isn't readily visible.


    I've recently been looking at how these processes might affect gas behaviour in closed (Stirling & Ericsson) cycle machines - as there has always been a problem when analysing the cycles using classical thermodynamic theory (especially for small, high speed, machines that include regeneration). Although there aren't any electrical discharges in these machines, turbulence, thermal shock, and acoustic vibration will affect the gas molecules in extra ways that are not taken into account in classical kinetic gas theory.


    I hope that explains why I've thrown Rayleigh into the possible hypothetical mix.

    Well, i understand you postulated that it exists a kind of hysteresis by gas dissociation/reassociation/excitation, generating xsh..

    in this way what kind of Rayleigh paper you referred ?

    Below an easy reading to better understand how classic plasma is working... ( No Hysteresis..)


    Quote from Cydonia

    Well, i understand you postulated that it exists a kind of hysteresis by gas dissociation/reassociation/excitation, generating xsh..

    I am not claiming that these processes produce excess energy. I'm just saying that they may need to be incorporated into any model that results from attempts to analyse the energy dynamics of this "air cell".


    Unfortunately Lord Rayleigh died before he was able to develop the science further. Continuing research has led to a couple of documents mentioned in the "useful book thread".


    Those "plasma" slides, while good, are very much a classical view of the topic. Possible quantum effects involving Spontaneous Emission and Stimulated Emission are ignored.

    Agree that light could play a role..

    About Rayleigh's plasma do you have a paper excepted the Alan's one ?

    Quote from Frogfall

    I am not claiming that these processes produce excess energy. I'm just saying that they may need to be incorporated into any model that results from attempts to analyse the energy dynamics of this "air cell".


    Unfortunately Lord Rayleigh died before he was able to develop the science further. Continuing research has led to a couple of documents mentioned in the "useful book thread".


    Those "plasma" slides, while good, are very much a classical view of the topic. Possible quantum effects involving Spontaneous Emission and Stimulated Emission are ignored.

    More from my ENG8 visit. This is Haslen Black and Danieli, the UL technician who came for a preliminary look.



    And these are 2 delgates from the Portugese Institure of Electrical Engieering (IEP) checking out RF emissions from the air-cell system.



    This is the building where the lab is locates- the Amiero Technology Center. One of 3 huge buildings all brand-new and not heaviily occupied yet.



    These are the current sensors on the air-cell inputs. They feed the scope.



    And this is the meter the IEP brought, alon with their own current clamps.



    I am still waiting for the data from these tests - I shall have more to say when I see it.

    They have an interesting team, 3 very bright Russians, a German-Swiss data engineer (the best kind) and the two principals. If they have a big problem is it possibly the usual financial constraints, but in other ways one of focus. The air-cell system is very simple, and their chief scientist tells me that depending on the feedstocks used it can be used for a whole range of chemical syntheses - though at what level of efficiency I cannot say. Because of this they sometimes seem of two (or three) minds about what to pursue as a priority. I think that will pass, I told them, you have only so much money, so many useful bodies, so many hours. Focus on the lowest hanging fruit, and keep the rest in reserve.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    I am still waiting for the data from these tests - I shall have more to say when I see it.

    Alan Smith , is of course sensible to wait for data, but also impressions can be telling. Can you let us know what does your gut feeling, or your acute sense of smell tells you from what you have been able to see, touch and feel, so far?

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

    Like 1

    I really can't comment on the COP usefully, because I haven't seen the data, and I know from experience that once you get systems running at high-temperature it is almost impossible to judge how much energy they are producing - look at the endless arguments over Lugano heat measurements for example.


    Above is a thermal camera image. And you know how misleading those can be.


    The rest of it - the people - seems warm and friendly. I have seen oscope-shots and also Electron microscope (with SIMS-TOF) images- performed live during my visit at the nearby Materials Institute - but neither of those totally convinces. I am waiting to see a proper energy balance, and the air-flow volume data...

    Quote from Alan Smith

    I know from experience that once you get systems running at high-temperature it is almost impossible to judge how much energy they are producing - look at the endless arguments over Lugano heat measurements for example.

    Only impossible if you have a particular not-likely-to-be repeated set of circumstances all at the same time:

    1. Like Levi (following Rossi) you make an elementary measurement mistake in a report and do not engage when it is pointed out
    2. You by coincidence measure the one surface (Al2O3) that given that particular mistake amplifies COP by an arbitrarily large factor
    3. You decide (for whatever reason) not to use the temperature measurements from a TC embedded in the system that would give direct temperature measurements and expose the mistake.


    Any one of those things is extraordinary. Together they make a mess no-one but Rossi could engineer.


    Not fair to use that as the yardstick for experimental integrity. Those "endless arguments" were resolved: that exactly what the measurements meant was not resolved is hardly surprising given such an indirect and flawed measurement procedure. It is like saying, after a fraudster has stolen 90% of a companies money, that there are endless arguments about the theft when the debate is about is it 85% or 95%, and no-one will ever know for sure.


    THH

    For my side i talked about only an Russian paper and from my memory Frogfall related the work from an Ukrainian guy.

    No link with the frauster you mentioned.

    Be sure that all the field stay causiously behind your conclusions ..

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Not fair to use that as the yardstick for experimental integrity. Those "endless arguments" were resolved: that exactly what the measurements meant was not resolved is hardly surprising given such an indirect and flawed measurement procedure.

    It's very fair when I say I have not seen the data set which is what I am waiting for. Hard to tell the difference between an energy producing reactor and a 500W hair-dryer using just my eyeballs.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    It's very fair when I say I have not seen the data set which is what I am waiting for. Hard to tell the difference between an energy producing reactor and a 500W hair-dryer using just my eyeballs.

    Umm... I was not arguing positively or negatively for the the integrity of the current experiment. Even more than you - I have no info on it!


    Let me just say the evidence so far looks like: "we've got a new hair drier and when I feel the output it seems hotter than I'd expect compared with my old one".

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    Disparaging IR themometry when it is is the operators’ fault is just plain wrong,


    Hundreds of millions of accurate and precise IR pyrometers and imagers exist and work perfectly every day, in almost every type of industry and science.

    They are good for many applications, no one denies it, but for exotic calorimetry they are not well suited.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

    This is a COP calculation (translated from Hungarian) carried out by George Egely's team back in Budapest. Not yet proof-read,


    Egely Measurement report 3.pdf


    Also a couple of videos George made recently.


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