Prometheus Energy (Italy) Claim LENR H2 Production system.

  • Their device doesn't seem to include any way to divide the hydrogen gas from the oxygen gas - which will also be produced. It seems they are actually generating oxyhydrogen - and so will need to find a safe (and cheap) way to separate the gases if their purported "low energy" device is to be any use as a source of storable hydrogen (as they claim).

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

  • "The reactor to produce hydrogen was born in the Km Rosso laboratories"


    "PROMETHEUS. Bombassei holds a significant minority stake in the company. Majorana: prototype for powering cars, but also for providing clean energy to homes and businesses.


    Two ingredients, water and electricity, and a reaction capable of triggering the production of hydrogen. A solution of disarming simplicity, as always what is ingenious, developed in Bergamo, in the Kilometro Rosso laboratories. A visionary project, not surprisingly called Prometheus, like the mythological character who stole fire from the gods to give it to humans. All thanks to a small reactor which, with the trigger produced by the equivalent of a traditional car battery, with less than half a glass of water manages to obtain hydrogen to burn on site, even on the move, without the need for storage and transportation, thus avoiding the main risks associated with this highly reactive and flammable gas.
    The laboratory prototype


    «We have created a laboratory prototype that could be used to power cars, trains, ships, but also to provide clean energy to industries and homes - explains the director of Kilometro Rosso, Salvatore Majorana -. Within a year and a half we plan to move on to industrial prototyping, licensing the technology we have developed to anyone who wants to produce it on a large scale."

    «Attention is growing in Italy»

    Prometheus took its first steps in 2018 thanks to a handful of Italian and foreign private investors led by Brembo's founder, Alberto Bombassei, who holds a significant minority stake in the company. Now the goal is to raise another 7 million, but "technologies and manufacturing skills typical of Bergamo manufacturing will also be needed, from electronic components to precision mechanics, up to high-resistance materials", Majorana points out. It is a technology based on physical phenomena called Lenr (Low energy nuclear reaction), on which attention is growing and not only in Italy. The American government has allocated significant funds to test similar technologies and the European Union is financing some projects, «but we are the first to have managed to control this reaction which, let's be clear, is not a form of electrolysis, and the stability of the reactor has now been certified by third parties", Majorana proudly underlines.
    The team of researchers

    The team that created Prometheus, made up of around thirty people, is led by Fabrizio Petrucci, while Carlo Miglietta, with the support of Dario Calzavara, coordinated the team that dedicated itself to the development of the prototype, «collaborating with the Polytechnic of Milan and the Bicocca University for the electronic part and the choice of materials to be used in the reactor", specifies Majorana.


    The applications

    The applications of the reactor developed in Bergamo could be very diverse. «Already today, hydrogen is mixed with methane to reduce its carbon footprint, therefore in every context where hydrocarbons are burned today, tomorrow it will be possible to use lightened hydrocarbons through the injection of hydrogen into the distribution networks - Majorana points out - or will be able to directly replace fossil fuel with hydrogen. Obviously it will be a gradual process, but knowing that it can be done is a very important piece of this puzzle that is slowly being built."

    Regarding the timing to reach the market, Majorana is cautious: «Certifications are especially important: in the automotive sector, safety documentation takes three or four years; in the aeronautical sector the path is even harder and longer. But the companies that operate in the various sectors not only have experience in bringing home this type of certification, but are the most suitable entities to develop our technology. We take care of making it credible, reproducible and of putting the big players in the best conditions to produce it, obviously under our license".

  • Kilometre Rosso is just an "innovation park" - in many ways like Culham Campus in the UK (where ENG8 demonstrated the Egely device).


    Being able to rent office/workshop/lab space in a tech park/campus usually doesn't constitute an endorsement of any company's products. Although:


    Quote

    We have created a laboratory prototype that could be used to power cars, trains, ships, but also to provide clean energy to industries and homes - explains the director of Kilometro Rosso, Salvatore Majorana

    This implies that the site director believes in the technology - and is personally endorsing it.

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

    Edited once, last by Frogfall ().

  • Heard this many times before.


    I see it is not being much embraced by others on this site.


    From my POV random claims without evidence to have a free energy source are not LENR, regardless on whether the random claimer says they are LENR, or hydrinos, or energetic pink shadows from the otherworld.


    I will remain against the idea that LENR is now proven - so all that is needed is to back commercial exploitation - until we have an accepted replicable scientific experiment showing LENR in a form where scientific investigation can proceed. If/when that happens there will be a lot of science thrown at it.


    The track record of scientific advancement from attempted (or claimed) commercial exploitation is so far zero. it does however energise internet comment.


    THH


    Possible small exception is Hora, whose probably-wrong ideas about laser-induced fusion are being better understood by new work from HB11 https://hb11.energy/latest-news/


    But that work is not really LENR - and instead is unconventional high energy fusion.

  • The new fire of Prometheus: Majorana unveils the Kilometro Rosso hydrogen reactor:


    In english:

    https://www-fondazioneleonardo…x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp


    Il nuovo fuoco di Prometheus: Majorana svela il reattore ad idrogeno di Kilometro Rosso
    Il centro di ricerca bergamasco ha sviluppato un reattore mobile che genera idrogeno attraverso impulsi elettrici nell'acqua: energia e zero emissioni
    www.fondazioneleonardo.com

    Edited once, last by teppo ().

  • From above:


    Quote

    With an impulsive wave energy is introduced. Pulses of electrical energy are thus discharged inside a reaction chamber in such a way as to generate a plasma for a few moments. This mixture evidently induces the separation of hydrogen from oxygen inside the water molecule; what we have observed is that oxygen reacts with the materials of the reaction chamber and leaves residues (particulates) at the bottom of the chamber, while hydrogen is released in very high concentrations, with extraordinary energy efficiency. Therefore, with the use of little energy, high densities of hydrogen are generated.

    So they are separating the hydrogen by destroying (and oxidising) the metal chamber. And just how much fossil fuel energy has gone into making the metal of the chamber? This is just ludicrous <X

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

  • This mixture evidently induces the separation of hydrogen from oxygen inside the water molecule; what we have observed is that oxygen reacts with the materials of the reaction chamber and leaves residues (particulates) at the bottom of the chamber, while hydrogen is released in very high concentrations, with extraordinary energy efficiency. Therefore, with the use of little energy, high densities of hydrogen are generated.


    Sounds like the hydrogen/scrap aluminium work I have been doing. Though why they need plasma is beyond me. And in my system it's the particulates that are worth the money, the hydrogen is a minor bonus.

  • I remember reading this New Scientist article, in 1998. Has anyone heard of either of these projects since?


    catalystsforchange.pdf


    Catalysts for change - Could some cunning chemistry make hydrogen the fuel of the 21st century?
    Tokyo & Barcelona THE prospect of a cheap supply of hydrogen has moved closer to reality now that researchers working independently in Japan and Spain have…
    www.newscientist.com

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

    Edited 2 times, last by Frogfall ().

  • No.not these particular ones.. but there are others..

    Photolysis..

    "Zhou P, Navid IA, Ma Y, Xiao Y, Wang P, Ye Z, Zhou B, Sun K, Mi Z. Solar-to-hydrogen efficiency of more than 9% in photocatalytic water splitting. Nature. 2023 Jan;613(7942):66-70. doi: 10.1038/s41586-022-05399-1. Epub 2023 Jan 4. PMID: 36600066."


    Hydrolysis is not really a problem main problem is hydrogen storage.

    there appears to be some progress.Nickel at ambient. temperature

    . maybe some hope for Toyota's hydrogen engine?

    Breakthrough research enables high-density hydrogen storage for future energy systems https://www.sciencedaily.com/r…/2024/03/240306150645.htm

    Through the synthesis of a nanoporous complex hydride comprising magnesium hydride, solid boron hydride (BH4)2, and magnesium cation (Mg+), the developed material enables the storage of five hydrogen molecules in a three-dimensional arrangement, achieving unprecedented high-density hydrogen storage.

    The reported material exhibits an impressive hydrogen storage capacity of 144 g/L per volume of pores, surpassing traditional methods, such as storing hydrogen as a gas in a liquid state (70.8 g/L)...


    "Fine-tuned MOF-74 type variants with open metal sites for high volumetric hydrogen storage at near-ambient temperature": https://www.sciencedirect.com/…cle/pii/S1385894724029875

    "This study investigates the hydrogen storage properties of M2(dondc) (M = Mg2+, Co2+, and Ni2+), an extended version of MOF-74. Among this series, Ni2(dondc) exhibits the second-highest volumetric hydrogen capacity of 10.74 g L−1 at 298 K under pressure swing adsorption conditions (100 to 5 bar) at ambient temperatures. The superior hydrogen storage performance of Ni2(dondc) is attributed to its highly polarizable Ni open metal sites and a significant heat of adsorption of 12.2 kJ mol−1. "

  • This mixture evidently induces the separation of hydrogen from oxygen inside the water molecule; what we have observed is that oxygen reacts with the materials of the reaction chamber and leaves residues (particulates) at the bottom of the chamber, while hydrogen is released in very high concentrations, with extraordinary energy efficiency. Therefore, with the use of little energy, high densities of hydrogen are generated.


    Sounds like the hydrogen/scrap aluminium work I have been doing. Though why they need plasma is beyond me. And in my system it's the particulates that are worth the money, the hydrogen is a minor bonus.

    chemalloy?

    Chemalloy Samuel Freedman
    Several tests verified that finely powdered Chemalloy would dissociate water into it's powerful constituent gases of hydrogen and oxygen for...
    chemalloy.blogspot.com


    At least I have found some other info's (US patents) about Freedman regarding zinc alloy research....

  • No.not these particular ones.. but there are others..

    I can remember feeling quite excited by some of the possibiliies, back in '98. I was even speculating about possible connected LENR effects, back then.


    But then heard nothing more from either of them. And it seems like no further progress has been achieved over the last quarter century.


    Note that all these researchers seem to play down the problems of separating the evolved oxygen and hydrogen gases. At least with electrolysis you get each at a different electrode.


    I've been dubious of the long-term viability of hydrogen storage by absorption into metal complexes - even going back to the nickel mesh devices of the 1970s. The relationship between nickel and hydrogen has always been a bit of a puzzling one - although it seems to work in batteries.


    The fact that some of the early LENR experiments involved nickel and hydrogen didn't come a a surprise, at the time. But here we are, all those years later, and despite all the claims - you still can't buy an actual working product.

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

    Edited once, last by Frogfall ().

  • I've been dubious of the long-term viability of hydrogen storage by absorption into metal complexes - even going back to the nickel mesh devices of the 1970s. The relationship between nickel and hydrogen has always been a bit of a puzzling one - although it seems to work in batteries.


    The fact that some of the early LENR experiments involved nickel and hydrogen didn't come a a surprise, at the time. But here we are, all those years later, and despite all the claims - you still can't buy an actual working product.

    Because nickel and hydrogen undergo the following cold fusion reaction:

    Cold nuclear fusion is a chain reaction of reverse beta decay according to the scheme:
    e + n → p + e- + e + 13,6 eV →
    For example:
    + 63Ni28 +1H→ 63Cu29 +e - + +1H + Q=E (energy)

  • Funnily enough, this seems to be the only paper in Chemical Communications by the two authors, from Valencia, mentioned in the 1998 New Scientist article.


    On the atomic environment and the mode of action of the catalytic centre in an intercalated oxo–molybdenum complex [MoO2{O2CC(S)Ph2}2]2– for oxygen-transfer reactions
    The title anion accommodated as a pillar in the interlamellar space of a Zn()Al double hydroxide(hydrotalcite-like) host is shown by X-ray absorption…
    pubs.rsc.org


    (n.b. It is available on sci-hub)


    How this paper backs up the claims in the NS article is a bit of a mystery.


    This is the only patent linked to the two authors, from Valencia - and it was filed in 1989.


    WO1991001988A1 - PREPARATION OF COMPLEXES α-MERCAPTO ACETATES OF Mo(VI) HAVING THE GENERAL FORMULA M[MoO2(CO2CSR1R2)2] - Google Patents

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

    Edited once, last by Frogfall ().

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