What Zitterbewegung is

Keep it civil everyone.

Quote from RobertBryant

zero to do with zitterbewegung but anything for a post

Once we equate Zitterbewegung to Higgs mechanism, we can draw many connections from it, because both effects have their own rich phenomenology. In the Standard Model of particles, the remainder masses would come from a different unproven mechanism regarding strong confining fields and their quantum counterpart—the gluons. The quark masses, the gluon fields and other strong interaction energies would not be affected by a Higgs field. The origin of inertial mass of ordinary matter is thus a wide-open question. Before quark/gluon model became popular, there was concept of Yukawa force (analogy of Casimir force) between nucleons mediated with pseudoscalar mesons, which may also serve as an analogy of Higgs boson - and vice-versa: we can search for pseudoscalar Higgs instead. We can see Hungarian boson as an analogy of Higgs boson at the mesonuclear scale. See also:

Why the “Wave” in Quantum Physics Isn’t Real - maybe the wave function doesn't exactly look like as simple as Schrodinger derived (after all, de Broglie himself coined "double quantization" model for his pilot wave concept), maybe it's heavily scattered with quantum fluctuations itself - but IMO pilot wave is definitely physically real and we can draw multiple physically testable conclusions from it.

Personally I don't see relation between Higgs and Zitterbewegung?

Higgs potential just regularizes singularities, also bringing mass to particles - e.g. topological charge: hedgehog configuration of unitary vectors n would have infinite energy due to discontinuity in the center, Higgs potential deforms it to finite energy ... corresponding e.g. to running coupling deformation of Coulomb (e.g. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2210.13374 )

It alone does not need any periodic process like Zitterbewegung.

In contrast, de Broglie clock/Zitterbewegung/neutrino oscillations need propulsion mechanism - explaining why the presence of particle brings tendency for some periodic process of the field, e.g. its rotation.

This is completely separate problem - requiring energetic tendency for field rotation (time derivative) in presence of particles (spatial derivative) - easy to get e.g.with curvature^2 Hamiltonian term below (explanation with code: https://community.wolfram.com/groups/-/m/t/3398814 )

Quote from Jarek

Personally I don't see relation between Higgs and Zitterbewegung? Higgs potential just regularizes singularities, also bringing mass to particles - It alone does not need any periodic process like Zitterbewegung.

Both they're manifestation of vacuum fluctuations - analogy of Brownian noise of vacuum. Your pictures also say mass of particles propels its clock : Zitterbewegung is the clock, Higgs field gives mass.

Vacuum fluctuations are inherently random - they only become periodic in presence of particles, which must be massive for to provide some shielding for them. The periodicity is actually very minor (and still merely hypothetical) component of Zitterbewegung. The Zitterbewegung by its name is trembling, i.e. chaotic, nearly random motion of particles - not periodic motion. Only when multiple massive particles come together - preferably along single line - then the periodic component emerges and we get time crystal.

Higgs potential prefers topologically nontrivial vacuum, and allows to regularize singularities like in the the center of hedgehog corresponding to topological/electric charge ... but such solutions alone do not need periodic process (usually would radiate it).

Zitterbewegung needs energetic tendency for nonzero time derivative in presence of particle: nonzero spatial derivatives ... but nonzero spatial derivatives can happen without Higgs potential.

So they are just different - for particle as topological excitation you need Higgs-like potential, adding clock is separate next step.

For hedgehog you need regularization (going out of Higgs minimum) in its point-line center, for topological vortex also - but it is 1D structure, with energy density per length.

Quote from Jarek

Higgs potential prefers topologically nontrivial vacuum

Higgs field is just scalar field which interacts with vector field of W/Z bosons. I already explained here, that the same mechanism emerges at the water surface, when water ripple (i.e. directional vector field) interacts with density fluctuations of the underwater (which is scalar field from perspective of surface ripples as it has no direction). Every ripple exposes some density fluctuations, which are making water surface more dense. The water ripples will propagate through such a place like solitons having mass instead of waves which have no rest mass. BTW Maybe you should stop with repeated embedding of Your random pictures, which explain nothing relevant to subject and they're just a nuisance for readers. How many times You already linked it already here? It's just a visual schizophrenic spam, lets admit it.

BTW I think that Brownian noise is fully random neither and it should have some characteristic harmonic frequency analogous to Zitterbewegung, which should be illustrated at least by some computer simulation of it. The standard statistical model for Brownian motion is the continuous limit of a random walk, known as a Wiener process. Such a mathematically defined Brownian motion is indeeed truly random red noise but it does not have exact physical manifestation as nothing in mathematics ever does. This is because the close neighborhood of every particle of finite volume differs from the rest of bulk and it affects free path of water molecules there. The large particle would make water molecules more concentrated around itself, so that its jittery motion will not be fully random there. It would follow potential trap of resulting density gradient, inside of which such a particle would tend to bounce from its internal walls. Pretty much like quantum pilot wave does so around every free particle in vacuum.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Higgs field is just scalar field which interacts with vector field of W/Z bosons

Mathematically standard Higgs potential is V(n) = (|v|^2 - 1)^2.

Exactly as I have written "Higgs potential prefers topologically nontrivial vacuum" - prefers unitary vectors: from topologically nontrivial vacuum e.g S^2, like sphere around hedgehog configuration.

Still allowing to deform e.g. to n=0 in the center of this hedgehog, otherwise its energy would be infinite.

Dynamics inside its potential minimum (vacuum) are massless Goldstone bosons - which can be used to recreate electromagnetism, like experimentally observed in liquid crystals (e.g. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-16200-z ).

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Maybe you should stop with repeated embedding of Your random pictures, which explain nothing relevant to subject

I have prepared a thousand of diagrams over the last 20 years - can be extremely precise on many topics, and the above are exactly on Higgs potential you have brought, and Zitterbewegung/neutrino oscillations this thread is about ... while you have just used a random picture about random walk, I can also talk a lot about (e.g. I have introduced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximal_entropy_random_walk ), but it does not fit this thread.

And no, physics is not "truly random" - working physics like QFT, GRT are Lagrangian formalism: classically the least action principle, quantum: Feynman/Boltzmann ensembles of paths/diagrams/field configurations - they are completely deterministic, CPT symmetric, but need boundary conditions in both past and future, while we know only the past - so it is nondeterministic only for us.

Also I have never heard of found hidden frequencies in random walk, Zitterbewegung is many orders too fast to detect this way, rather requiring time dilation e.g. by speeding up in the famous direct confirmation ( https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10701-008-9225-1 ).

Quote from Jarek

And no, physics is not "truly random" - working physics like QFT, GRT are Lagrangian formalism: classically the least action principle

The philosophy of mainstream science is, the Universe had an origin and zero state. In my view such an assumption is unnatural from Occam razor perspective, and dense aether model considers that Universe had no beginning and its natural state is random state. The perception of origin is observer dependent and a consequence of limited visibility scope of observer within this randomness. This doesn't imply that the whole visibility scope if random - instead there is an scope at both small both large scales where universe behaves pretty predictably - and this is just a scope of validity of QFT, GRT theories.

Nevertheless at quite small and largest observable scales the intrinsic randomness of Universe prevails and all theories stop being valid again. Therefore the zitterbewegung is necessary to derive from random Brownian motion model or something similar. Particles don't wiggle or tremble because they drink too much coffee. They get their motion from random vacuum fluctuations and Higgs mechanism has presumably the same origin. If there is some regularity of motion or frequency, then it must come from particles itself, as I mentioned above.