"The real world is a bitch, and you learn not to make assumptions."
The assumption is yours. Jed was not talking about increased pressure due to the reaction but that due to the gram levels of reactants
Jed said : If enough O2 got in to cause significant heat, the pressure would rise"
He did not say "If the O2 reacted the pressure would rise"
The reactor pressure is monitored to be about 760pa, with only 3 milligrams of deuterium gas
If there were 3 grams of deuterium in the chamber the pressure would be 760,000 pascals or over 7 atmosphere's worth
To get significant heat such as 1- 5 MJ by combustion with O2 you will require to have a much higher mass of D2 /O2 the chamber.
.. gram levels.
As you have stated "Enthalpy of combustion of H2 is 280kJ/mol or 0.14MJ/g" and therefore that of D2 is 0.07MJ/g.
I'll leave it to you to work out the exact numbers ... but the pressure won't be 760 Pa.. or 1000 Pa due to the required gram levels of D2/O2 in the chamber
It will be much much greater than 7600 Pa.
However the pressure is around 760 Pa - 1000 Pa in the chamber throughout the 80 kilosecond test period.
And the minute quantities (3 milligrams of Deuterium) appear to produce megajoules of heat.
Mizuno designed the air calorimetry system to be able to detect down to about 0.2 MJ of heat
but even this smaller amount of heat would require 2.85 grams of D2 to combust with several times that mass of O2
according to your explanation
There's another one. Found them in my first reading a while back
Preprint is being corrected.
You should see the booboos I made in my submission to a journal.
Its very hard to proofread your own stuff in another language.
Not sure what David Nagel was doing.
Now I really need to get some kip.
THHuxley."Still, I'd like to debug this"
Maybe you could start here?
"100 W × 71.46 ks = 71.46 MJ, "
As for me..time to sleep.
TH huxley ". But not sure I have the motivation to spend long amts of time"
Yosh. Ganbatte ne?
You could take into account the pressure.
760 pascals or so.. compared to atmospheric 100.000
then factor in the volume of the reactor chamber say 2.5 litres
760/100,000 x 2500 mls = 20???
JPn 2 Australia 0 out of 2018 world cup run
1 mole of H2 is 2.0158 grams.
Density = mass/volume.
In g/L it would be (2.0158)/(22.4) =0.089 g/L 0.089 mg/ml
D2 =twice = 0.178 mg/ml
20 ml = ~3.5 mg at STP give or take a few nanograms
at 65 minutes Samurai blues are 1 Socceroos 0 in Saitama
A test with this reactor lasts almost 30 days. Typical excess heat during the time is estimated as 300 W. Total energy is thus ~2.6×108 J. The amount of D2 used was 20 cm3 STP. Assuming that the reaction is D+D fusion, and assuming that all gases react, the amount of gas required to generate this much energy is approximately 12 cm3 STP. Although this is a very rough calculation, this value coincides with the amount of gas consumed. "
but worth checking.
probably checked already by Mizuno last year.
There are 3.4 mg of D2 in the reactor.
Enthalpy of combustion 0.07 Mj/g of D2
If Xs energy due to combustion of D2
3.4 mg x 0.07 MJ/g = 0.000238 MJ.
Xs energies observed are much larger
Socceroos versus Samurai Blues 0-0 at halftime, Saitama
The control/inactive input energy calculates as 7.15 MJ = (100Wx71.5ks)..it was run in for a slightly shorter time than for the active reactor.
The use of the average temp of 28.1 does account for some of the variation with density of the temperatures in and out
( there is not much Hc variation )
But the calculation is done much more accurately in the spreadsheet calculations, over 3485 time points, with the use of actual in/out temps in the enthalpy calcs
rather than average temperatures.
This is just a roughasguts way to look at how much Xs there is
Zeus 45". I'm not quite sure what it tells us that's more useful than looking at either the total energy or the instantaneous difference between POut and PIn"
Energy (MJ )ratios are more useful for me.
Currently the price here for me in NSW is 4.5 cents per Natural Gas Megajoule and 9.4 cents per Electricity Megajoule.
Mizuno knows that he has to get the COP way up over 300% for this thing to be attractive.
at 200% it is not even breakeven.
For the 248W case the electricity cost of 4.96 Megajoules in is 46.6 cents
The output heat energy of 9.8 MJ could be supplied by gas at 44.1 cents .
The 8.25MJ is from the paper,, 100W x 82.5 ks
the 28.1 is the temperature that gives equal area above/below it in my previous "integral" area post
Although why 2000/3000?
that's the problem with average power.. is the input defined to be over 20000, 30000.??
I was wondering if you could check the xs energy for Figure 26 for an input of 8.25 MJ
Using average temp =28.1, Hc =1006J/kg/deg, density =1.17 kg/m3, flowrate = (3.87 m/s , area 4.4/1000 m2?)
I got 11.8 MJ output.. xs = 3.55
I do not think humidity and temp variations make a significant difference.
Zeus45 said "I thought 100w"
Actually energy(MJ) ratio is what I use
DIY e.g Power input 248
Copy Fig 28. Into paint
Color it red and blue
Have some fun with pixels. upload to
http://www.geotests.net/couleurs/frequences_en.html I got red =121 blue=61(depends on your clipping)
I calculate average output power for the 30 ks is 327 KW
XS average power = 79W..
Which is less dangerous than the 100W lightbulb in my natto incubator.
Xs Energy ratio is approximately 100%... COP 2??
"Your attempts to turn my safety concerns into a joke aren't really appreciated "
You are not MARY but KIRK.
My ridicule was addressed to her/him not you... unless you are one and the same.
There are 3 mg of deuterium in the reactor.
This is about the minimum you can use to get a measurable effect.
This reactor is safer than my homemade natto
"I am talking now about metal hydride beds with 15 kg of alloy"
I can't recall reading that Mizuno used that in this paper.
Lighten up, bro
With respect to the Mizuno paper it appears that LENR reactions are only occurring under very narrowly defined sets of circumstances.
If we compare Figure 20 with Figure 26, the time-temp integral is 76% greater for the active reactor than the inactive reactor
for similar power inputs.
The time-temp integral for the two reactors is 590 kilosecond.degrees for the active, 335 for the inactive.
The time-temperature integral between the inlet and outlet air temperatures is a quick way of
estimating the reactor heat outputs.
The slight differences in air densities and specific heats at these mild temperatures do not change the
basic conclusion that the active reactor is producing a lot of excess heat as compared to the inactive reactor
which is producing no excess relative to input.
One reactor is inactive because it has a slightly different surface preparation for the nickel.
Deuterium pressure, masses , dimensions are exactly the same for both the inactive and active reactors.
In Mizuno's controlled situation the excess heat power is of the order of 50W,, similar to a household lightbulb.
Professor Mizuno and indeed all university researchers are required to undertake proper safety precautions in their research.
Every effort is taken to remove oxygen from the small reactor chamber because it eliminates the LENR reactivity of the specially prepared
nickel palladium surface. The possibility of an explosion of deuterium with oxygen is very low.
Palladium is a noble metal which is much less reactive than metals on the left side of the periodic table, such as Lithium
Lithium is not used in the Mizuno report which is subject of this thread
If one goes through the data available from Professor Mizuno, one will be impressed by the effort that is taken to control
and measure as many variables as possible. There are no reports of spontaneous, unforeseen temperature excursions in these controlled experiments
Most people on this forum are aware that 500 Pascals is not a high pressure but indeed it is very low pressure and almost vacuous
like some comments on this forum.
Mary Yugo wrote
"If I were working with Pd, maybe with hydrogen, lithium, and especially with other perhaps exotic materials, under high heat and pressure"
100 ~ 700 pascals is a really really high pressure and 120 Celsius is a really really high temperature and even 1 mg of hydrogen is really really dangerous.
Mizuno is so reckless. .
As well my incandescent 100w lightbulb should be banned .
Pressure = 100,000 pascals, Temperature = 3000C. tungsten is too 'exotic'. Just in case there is one mg of hydrogen in the vicinity.