Posts by dartin

Quote from Shane D.

As now, back then he was talking of gearing up for the mass production, snakes and chatterers, happy customers which he could not name, but *maybe* he will soon allow some public visits.

Dear members of the jury:
If Andrea Rossi has in fact invented an "E-Cat device" which creates energy at 50:1 ratio, then why is it that there are no such units in service now? Not only should Rossi have such a unit, but IH should have ten such units under test by now with Rossi's assistance. Yet we at IH cannot get any such units working after following all of Rossi's instruction to the letter. Even if the one unit at JM Products worked, it required the constant attention of Rossi himself, who remained on site 16 hours each day of the test.

The history of LENR is that it cannot be reproduced reliably. Evidence of this is presented by expert witnesses such as Michael McKubre. Meanwhile with the help of Brillouin's profession engineers, IH is working on developing a unit that can be reproduced and manufactured in volume. Rossi has failed everyone by delivering only promises for over 5 years, but IH is determined to develop a working unit (with other's help) that is manufacturable. As a result, we claim that we should not have to pay Rossi any more money and yet we should retain rights to Rossi's IP.

Also placed on the witness stand is Robert Godes who will spout all kinds of theory and drop all kinds of important sounding names such as "Hamiltonian". He will tell the jury that the Rossi approach is more complicated than it needs to be. IH has not only acquired the rights to Rossi's efforts, but also George Miley, Robert Godes and two other International inventors. Rossi stumbled on to something by copying earlier efforts of others, but now it is time for the professionals to step in and reduce LENR to practice.

In addition, Rossi's patents were not complete and we had to add further claims and resubmit them.

We at IH are coming to save the world from Anthropogenic Global Warming and we have asked congress to pass laws and the POTUS to sign executive orders that prohibit any attempts to stand in our way. God bless all heroes like IH.

Amen

Consider the following analogy:
"Edison first used carbonized sewing thread as a filament, he managed to get it inside a vacuum.
This made his first practical lightbulb. He used carbonized sewing threads until 1880. Then he used paper bristol board. (Carbonized paper) This move increased lamp life to 600 hours."
http://www.edisontechcenter.org/incandescent.html

The analogy is that we are at the early development stage of LENR where the device fails more often than we would like (just as the carbonized sewing threads burned out more often than was preferred), but at the same time, we see a huge potential and are we are looking for something to parallel the tungsten filament in the incandescent light bulb.

We suspect that when the breakthrough in LENR occurs that is at a level of progress equivalent to the tungsten filament breakthrough in the incandescent light bulb, the world will change significantly.

So, my question is, "Does it help to see that LENR is like the invention of the light bulb?"
Does LENR work well enough to draw the attention of millions of dollars and high-stakes investors willing to battle over patents? Apparently at least one.

What does it mean that we now in the early stages of a fight over who owns LENR and its patents?
Will IH defend its non-payment because it has licenses to patents that precede Rossi's?
Will the trial be widely publicized and draw more investors in to the LENR field of invention?
Timing is an important consideration. Therefore I want to ask you all:

When will Silicon Valley become involved?
When will Venture Capitalists become involved?
When will a company the size of GE become involved?
When will a large University Create a LENR department?
When will MIT accept LENR as fact?

Also: Are we hoping for publicity in order to attract more investment?

d

Many of those who message on this forum have a different motivation than Rossi. This is understandable.
You may be an idealist who wants to "save the world" or a "believer" who wants to "silence the skeptics."

BUT

Does Rossi want to silence every skeptic? No, from his perspective, he wants most of the world to REMAIN skeptical.
Why? Because when the billionaire venture capitalists fully believe in LENR then they will pour billions into LENR and leave Rossi as a footnote to history with a few condos in Florida.

On the contrary, Rossi very carefully wants to tread the thin line of credibility. Just enough to raise money to do his own R&D but not enough credibility for OTHERS to raise money from Venture Capitalists and compete with him with their own products to sell.

Meanwhile he is making progress and understanding more how to retain control over the process itself in order to improve its practicality. Like most inventors, he wants control over his invention more than he wants to convince skeptics and thereby have competition.

Personally, I want to understand how it all works and am looking forward to good results from MFMP and Me356. Just because I feel differently than Rossi does, doesn't make Rossi 'wrong' or me 'right'. We are just different and I still respect him and what he is doing.
d

Jed: "Some were published in mainstream, peer-reviewed journals."

I attended ICCF-18 and was struck by the fact that:
A. Rossi was not there but people attending said that Rossi "raised their consciousness" and was the reason that they were there (attendees, no presenters).
B. There was a "live demonstration of DGT" and it was obviously a fraud but nobody objected.
C. There were many presentations with significant veracity.
My conclusion was different than my anticipation going in. At first, I expected that there would be a few different approaches which would be discussed and teams of collaborators would come out of the meeting. What I found was a bunch of independent thinkers each with a different approach and dedicated to bring their approach to fruition.

In other words, the problem with LENR was TOO MANY different examples of it working and NOT ENOUGH concentration on stopping the science and starting the engineering and development that would lead to production.

Meanwhile Rossi was back home chugging away on making a Functioning Practical Heat generator.

d

It is called "The Sting" and is based on the concept that you "Cannot cheat an honest man". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sting

Let us go back to the light bulb based on carbonized sewing thread as a filament. Edison managed to get it working inside a vacuum. This made his first practical light bulb and Edison used carbonized sewing threads until 1880.

Let us say that you see the possibilities of such an invention and sign a contract to pay Edison $11.5 million Plus $89 million on delivery of a working prototype that lasted a specified period of time...plus 5% royalties up to $1 billion. You get everything including the patent on using carbonized thread in your light bulb.

After such a contract is delivered and tested to meet specs by an expert up to the $11.5 million point and you have been given the vacuum pump that can make such a light bulb practical, what complaint could you possibly have?

You are "sitting on top of the world".

...that is until you realize that maybe a tungsten filament would make a better light bulb...Whoops, you don't own the patent on the tungsten filament...

You might say to yourself, "Oh Darn". or "Heavens to Betsy".

Edison would reply "He He He".

Please notice that Rossi has said many times something to the effect that there are a wide range of possible LENR devices.
What does this mean? It is a notice to investors; "Don't just patent one approach and think you own the whole industry."

Let us say that you have a patent for one method of combining Li with H. Does that mean that you have the rights to another patent that improves on your patent?
Compared to the number of LENR patents that will exist on 2050, we have barely scratched the surface.
Even having the patent on the light bulb using tungsten doesn't protect you from the LED light bulb.

d

My first observation is that most of this discussion is not directed at the actual set of problems faced by Rossi and IH.
Anyone who has read up on LENR (e.g. The Science of LENR by Ed Storms) knows that LENR is a real effect. It works...get over it.
Anyone who has calculated the worth of a working LENR model complete with patents knows that such a "package" is potentially worth Trillions of dollars.

So, Rossi sold to IH such a package for only $1.5 million plus $10 million plus a committment to pay another $89 million on delivery of a one year test. Follow-on was 5% up to $1 billion more in royalties plus. At this point in the story, it appears that IH has "taken advantage" of Rossi in a business deal. In order to secure his deal, Darden has gone all over the globe buying up everyone else's patents as well.

But wait, There are many many kinds of LENR and Rossi sold IH only ONE of them.
Rossi has two groups, one is working on the Low Temperature E-Cat and the second group is working on the High Temperature E-CatX.

So, one morning Tom Darden wakes up to realize that he paid $11.5 million and made a commitment to pay $89 million more for an inferior technology. A technology whose only defect is that there is another technology which is superior.

So what does Tom Darden do now? Does he claim that Rossi's LENR doesn't work? Or does he admit that Rossi's Low Temp LENR DOES work but that he also owns any follow-on technologies that Rossi comes up with?

Whoops, Darden forgot to put in the contract that he owns Rossi's brain.

d

Questions for the forum:
Does IH want to get out of the contract altogether? If they walked away, could Rossi make 200 of his E-Cat 1 MW units and have a profit of $89 million?
Is an E-Cat 1 MW unit only practical if it comes with a clone of Rossi as support? Does accomplishing SSM require a Rossi at the controls? Was SSM mode present when Rossi slept?
When the analysis of the ash from the 352 day trial comes in, will it be made public or wait in line with the ERV report?

LENR is like dynamite. Nitroglycerin was invented by 'who knows' and is unstable and likely to blow up on you if you ship it.
The name that everyone knows is Alfred Noble because he made dynamite by mixing nitroglycerin with sawdust and patenting it. From the profits, we have Noble prizes.

LENR is working and can produce COP > 20 for sure but the higher the COP the less stable it seems to be. Tom Darden is trying to become the fellow who got one of his engineers to stabilize LENR so that it could become practical.
If he accomplishes his goal, he will be the new Alfred Noble and nobody will remember all the people who invented nitroglycerin or all the forms of LENR that are documented in the literature.

d

"I get the feeling that the discovery of the XCat changed Rossi's attitude toward his old E-Cat design."

Or perhaps Rossi has never gotten either Cat to perform long-term without someone there to fix it when it breaks.
Let us say you invent the Internal Combustion Engine but that your design only works for a week until it breaks down. How much is your "brilliant invention" worth?

d

"Meanwhile Rossi has made significant progress in understanding how his hotcat process works and can be improved."

Or perhaps, the original E-cat is not stable enough to sell in practical applications and Rossi is holding out on the "new improved version" as a teaser so as to collect the $89 million.
But Rossi is not claiming that the X-Cat is a stable design yet.

Darden may believe that neither Cat is working well enough to sell into a production environment so he is getting Brillouin to work on improvements and refusing to pay for something that works only in a highly technician-ready-to-repair environment.

d

"The license agreement was clearly made when they thought it worked, and now they think it does not work"

Not exactly. What Darden might claim is that although it worked as a "science project", it did NOT work as a commercially viable system.
Proof: Rossi had to babysit his devices for 352 days. Rossi admitted on his blog that his health suffered as a result. The ERV report may indicate that much maintenance is required to keep a Rossi device working. If so, then the ERV report and Rossi's resultant poor health proves that what Rossi presented was NOT commercially viable.
Darden might claim in court that Rossi presented his technology as a commercially viable system. Since it is not commercially viable, Darden shouldn't be expected to pay,
If Darden wins/loses using this argument, he may have to pay some millions to Rossi, BUT the new and improved commercially viable version of the patent will be owned by Darden and if Rossi wants to produce units, he will have to pay Darden to use the commercially viable version of the patent. Otherwise every Rossi unit will have to come with a Rossi clone to perform maintenance 24/7.

Robert Godes (Brillouin) may be the person or group who Darden has working on making an improved system which WILL BE commercially viable.

d

In the argument between Rossi losing v. winning in court.
1. Rossi wins, settles for the original $89 million. Darden has proof from justice system that LENR is real and works. The resultant IP is more valuable than without the publicity of the court trial.
2. Rossi loses, Darden loses rights to Rossi's patent and thereby loses.
3. Rossi loses on the basis of his patent being flawed and the modified version submitted by Darden NOT having that same flaw.
4. Rossi loses on the basis that his patent is in conflict with an earlier patent made by Miley or someone else whose patent is now assigned to Darden. Such a conflict would mean that Rossi doesn't really own the IP he claims to own and that its sale was therefore a fraud or otherwise invalid.

d

{Just wait for me to return to my negative COP experiments.I was putting almost 50% more power into dual heater coils, and not generating any extra temperature.}

If you borrow money to work on your project at the current negative interest rates, you will still make money.

d

(dartin: As one oil producer has replied to the question"What will you do when LENR is confirmed and marketed?". "Why, I'll buy it to use it to extract oil more cheaply")

What may happen is that it will become difficult to raise money to drill for oil => oil income becomes exclusive domain of those who can produce it cheaply like Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Will this drive the price of oil up or will the knowledge that, like coal, most oil will eventually be left in the ground force the price downward toward $7.00 plus shipping.

The prospect of inexpensive electricity does not cause all gasoline cars to go away overnight. I drive a Tesla and am hoping to have a home LENR generator to charge it up.

d

A report on the Wright brother's first flight would be both positive and negative. The positive would be seen by those who can imagine the possibilities of expanding on the concept of flight and the negative would be spoken by those who would point out that such an airplane cannot replace other forms of transportation. I suspect that the reaction to this report will be similar. I suspect that it will not be creating headlines in the mainstream media that announce that the age of fossil fuels is coming to an end. What is needed is the installation of hundreds of units that are safe, stable and less expensive than the alternatives.

d

Looks like [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is gathering as many patents as possible before making a large move on the industry.

d

Could it be that [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is trying to gather the rights to all or most of the patents in LENR?

d

What is the nature of the four projects that are looking for funding?

don

I have access to machines and 3D printers which could fabricate some of these parts. Do you have drawings? Would it be helpful to make a dozen or more of these parts? Could kits be made and distributed so that the replication would be extensive? I even have an old lithium battery that might be useful.

don

Congratulations. All we need now is a full set of drawings by which a device can be fabricated.
don