Posts by Curbina

    Mats, will you share the results later? I am interested in knowing, too. You might or not know that I went all the way from total and staunch Rossi suporter and follower to bitter and regretful person that would have preferred to never have heard about Rossi and his e-cat in his life, with the turning point around the publication of all the court transcripts of the "sue". I honestly wonder how many people still believe in Rossi after all his shenanigans and 0 proof. And take this from a guy that followed another high profile free energy (Steorn motor magnet) since 2006 to its bitter end around 2017, so I should have known better.

    Robert, I think the overunity of the experiments is out of the question, every press release and analysis states it was detected and the surprise was so big that it took the people doing the experiments 14 months of further experiments and checks and double checks to confirm this.

    This article has some key statements:…ron/hottest-z-output.html

    What happened and why?

    Z’s energies in these experiments raised several questions.

    First, the radiated x-ray output was as much as four times the expected kinetic energy input.

    Ordinarily, in non-nuclear reactions, output energies are less — not greater — than the total input energies. More energy had to be getting in to balance the books, but from where could it come?

    Second, and more unusually, high ion temperatures were sustained after the plasma had stagnated — that is, after its ions had presumably lost motion and therefore energy and therefore heat — as though yet again some unknown agent was providing an additional energy source to the ions.

    Sandia’s Z machine normally works like this: 20 million amps of electricity pass through a small core of vertical tungsten wires finer than human hairs. The core is about the size of a spool of thread. The wires dissolve instantly into a cloud of charged particles called a plasma.

    The plasma, caught in the grip of the very strong magnetic field accompanying the electrical current, is compressed to the thickness of a pencil lead. This happens very rapidly, at a velocity that would fly a plane from New York to San Francisco in several seconds.

    At that point, the ions and electrons have nowhere further to go. Like a speeding car hitting a brick wall, they stop suddenly, releasing energy in the form of X-rays that reach temperatures of several million degrees — the temperature of solar flares.

    The new achievement — temperatures of billions of degrees — was obtained in part by substituting steel wires in cylindrical arrays 55 mm to 80 mm in diameter for the more typical tungsten wire arrays, approximately only 20 mm in diameter. The higher velocities achieved over these longer distances were part of the reason for the higher temperatures.

    (The use of steel allowed for detailed spectroscopic measurements of these temperatures impossible to obtain with tungsten.)

    Haines theorized that the rapid conversion of magnetic energy to a very high ion plasma temperature was achieved by unexpected instabilities at the point of ordinary stagnation: that is, the point at which ions and electrons should have been unable to travel further. The plasma should have collapsed, its internal energy radiated away. But for approximately 10 nanoseconds, some unknown energy was still pushing back against the magnetic field.

    Haines’ explanation theorizes that Z’s magnetic energies create microturbulences that increase the kinetic energies of ions caught in the field’s grip. Already hot, the extra jolt of kinetic energy then produces increased heat, as ions and their accompanying electrons release energy through friction-like viscous mixing even after they should have been exhausted.

    High temperatures previously had been assumed to be produced entirely by the kinetic flight and intersection of ions and electrons, unaided by accompanying microturbulent fields.

    Cool stuff Alan!!! I had no idea you were that ahead on this venture. This is the kind of stuff that strenghtens my thinking of that we really could abandon oil completely if we really wanted to.

    The results were, and still are, baffling. That's why I am so interested in this issue, and also intrigued about it's virtual dissapearance from the field of research. I don't like to resort to conspiralandia, but such impressive results, completely absent from the spotlight? One can only wonder why.

    I have commented many times, whenever "Cold Fusion" talks get into the "Hot Fusion" development, that IMHO the Z machine experiments on Sandia Labs and the published results by the late Malcolm Haines, while stunning and ripe with implications, have been mostly and completely overlooked and ignored.

    The experiments are within the realm of what is mostly labelled "Inertial confinement fusion", and basically consist in driving a huge amount of energy stored electric energy in a pulse through an array of wires (normally Tungsten, but in the famous experiment, replaced by stainless steel) that happens in fractions of a second, and generates a plasma burst and X rays emissions.

    The 2006 experiments created what held the record of highest man made temperature for several years (until CERN experiments scored much higher), at astonishing 3.600.000.000 degrees Kelvin. But the scientist in charge could not believe that, because the energy in the pulse could not account for that thermal increase. The computations, performed several times after several experimental repetitions, to be sure and to discard any measurement errors, were of 4X overunity. That is 4 times mor energy in the thermal output than the electrical energy pulse used to ignite the Z machine.

    This experiment was not even trying to achieve those results. This was a complete surprize, I cannot emphasize this any more.

    I am opening this thread to bring back discussion on this achievement and analyze in the light of what is now more or less known or guessed about LENR, as I think there is a relation, as we are looking at overunity in a plasma, which is a theme already known to us in cases like the hydrino of Mills, the Ultradense hydrogen of Holmlid and the magnecules of Santilli, to name a few.

    I will leave here some introductory material and an in depth analysis of the Haines paper, and also a link to the Haines paper.

    Hope you enjoy and we can discuss this together, if it interest the readers enough to do so.…/2006/11/061103104056.htm…ments_on_haines_paper.pdf…ds/pdf/article_Haines.pdf (2006 Haines paper on Journal of Physics Letters).

    I still contend LENR is an animal that is partially well depicted by the Hydrino, the magnehydrogen, the metallic hydrogen, and so on, everyone finding a perspective of it but no one able to see the whole picture, so even if they are painting a picture of the same phenomena, everyone thinks the others are wrong. I am the kind of mind that sees the patterns beneath details and I see they are talking of the same stuff.

    I really would like to know what you folks think about the Z machine results. They are very intriguing to me, a 4X over unity that no one expected and that they had to check and re check tens of times just to be sure they weren't being fooled, and a peak temperature of 3,6 billion °K, I am really baffled why this issue is not much more openly discussed in the Fusion community, because even if a those high temperatures, I think that machine has much more to do with LENR than anyones could imagine.

    Newly published paper that may support Brilliant Light Power's approach --

    A simple argument that small hydrogen may exist…pii/S0370269319303624/pdf

    I was going to mention the very same stuff, the toroidal area of probable distribution of electrons in Santilli's Hadron Mechanic books, resulting from plasma arcing, as another version of the small hydrogen idea, Santilli calls this Magnehydrogen and sustains this can bind both chemically and magentically to form "magnecules". Santilli alleges he has proof that his "magnehydrogen" can be compressed to much higher ratios than normal hydrogen, and managed to publish in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy a paper where he says he conclusively proves this is no normal hydrogen. There is another researcher that proposes all sorts of geometric areas of probability for Hydrogen related to LENR, but I can't recall his name other than it is from slavic origin.

    Santilli is a very controversial character, and has a track record of being quirky, temperamental, outspoken, temper tantrum prone, and incapable of backing off or recognizing when is caught red handed in a flat out lie. That said, I once asked online a person who was an actual plasma phycisist and PhD, what he thought of Hadronic Mechanics. He told me that Santilli is the kind of guy that will be proven right decades after his death, and that there was a handfull of people in the world actually capable of understanding what Hadronic Mechanics is about. I was impressed by that comment, but seems that kind of rather positive opinion about Santilli is rather rare among his peers.

    A couple of things To note are:

    -Hadronic Journal is Santilli's own journal. He claims he was forced to self publish since no one wanted To publish his work.

    - even if Santilli is a crank, his Hadronic mechanics is taken seriously by some researchers, Unfortunately they all end publishing in one of Santilli's journalls

    He has some interesting ideas, in some way related to Mills hydrino. Santilli might be lunatic now but once he was not, and he developed what I consider now to be an early approach to LENR with "4X" overunity claimed results. Now Santilli, of advanced age, seems to have fallen prey of his own "grandeur", but it does not diminish what he might have got right when he was still sane.

    His book "Hadronic Mechanics" was published by Springer, not a triviality in term of books publishing.

    I once asked a plasma physics doctor what he thought of Santilli, and he told me that he thinks very few people can even understand Santilli, he is probably way ahead of our time, and will eventually be rediscovered.

    It can be found for download in several places, I have it, and I see his theory is broadly translatable to say that when you submit hydrogen molecules to a highly magnetic plasma, it releases energy and the orbitals of the electrons shift shape to a toroidal area instead of a spherical one, releasing energy in excess. He has obtained very interesting experimental results regarding the density of this altered hydrogen.

    Interesting comment by Robert George (BE CEO) at 26.32. Recounts Godes answering the often asked question: "If LENR is real, why is it not seen in nature". Godes say's it is, and gives the example of "massive heat excursions", seen in Russian oil fields.…

    Shane, It was in Chile, but the effect was actually found in the Brazilian branch y of the Chilean Company.…files/Wells_TM2014-218283 Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Aircraft.pdf

    There were a number of other documents, in special one authored by Dennis Bushnell, but seems NASA took it off from the origina location.

    Edit to add: Here's Bushnell's presentation obtained under FOIA by S.. Krivit, I don't know if you'll find it "a reliable source" but the FOIA request should give you a clue that its indeed a real document from NASA.…ell-GRC-LENR-Workshop.pdf