Posts by Rionrlty

Quote from THHuxleynew

Peter,

I'll deconstruct your various points, indicating why I evaluate it differently from you.

How can we know that? I'd expect that it was working only in the sense Rossi uses the word. His measurements, or those approved by him, of his setup show it working. That is putting the cart before the horse. If you think these measurements adequately tell whether the plant is working then you know this anyway.

The question is how competent were these engineers, and did they have the power to demand that a better setup be used. For your point to be valid you'd need both that they were competent steam plant engineers and that it was their remit and power to correct a bad setup. I can see neither at the moment.

I have no information about whether professional and safety rules were respected. Rossi is not renowned for either nor does his history of demos make that seem very plausible. But, if they were, nothing yet noted by you rules out a bad test setup. And we know Rossi tends to have these. I'd expect no-one else in that setup to be willing (or, I'd guess, able) to go against Rossi's wishes: so that is a type of relative omnipotence.

I accept that. I don't see it is relevant to the matter at hand.

Well I have a deal of empathy, no doubt not as much as some, but I don't see that as relevant to this matter. However I feel about Rossi, or you, or IH, I try to make my search for what is the likely truth here the same. Maybe if I did not feel some empathy for IH and a sense of the injustice done to them and others by you and others, I would be less motivated to set the record, as I see it, straight. But you may be sure that when I'm commenting on your arguments I'm not thinking about that, purely about the arguments.

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Jed, you admit in several places of your post that you are not sure or just don't know certain details, and that is a fair admission. However, in these instances you also seem to come down on the side of negativity toward AR. Your glass seems always half empty, where as Peter's seems to be half full in that respect. The truth is that none of us can be certain, or even deduce fairly, what was there or how it was set up. It may come out during discovery in the court case or it may not, but please try to reserve judgement until then, one way or the other. Like Peter I try to always err toward optimism. It appears almost like you have been indoctrinated with the opposite tendency by Dewey, who is almost certainly, and always has been, heavily influenced by IH at this point. It almost seems as if you two are dancing in lockstep. Just keep and open mind and try to avoid jumping to conclusions. Remember the scientific method you tout so obsessively.

Quote from sigmoidal

I've certainly thought a lot about it. Here's something for you to ponder.

Since the initial lawsuit, IH has told a consistent story. You know the context regarding their initially positive relationship and signed contract, so I'll skip that and paraphrase their assertions:

1) Rossi's 24 hour test did not last 24 hours (albeit by a small margin) and did not meet the power output agreed to.

2) Rossi fabricated a non-existent Italian regulation as an excuse for why it could not run for the full time and full power for that test.

3) When in NC, IH could not get the E-Cat to produce excess heat, even when Rossi was there to help.

4) Long after the agreed to 1 year GPT time had ended, Rossi, Johnson, et. al. came up with a 'scheme' to move the plant to Florida to produce heat for a 'real customer'.

5) Rossi, Johnson, et. al. stated to IH that the real customer was independent from Rossi and Leonardo.

6) Rossi, Johnson, et. al. stated to IH that the real customer was connected in some manner to Johnson Mathey,

7) Rossi, Johnson, et. al. hired James Bass to pose as a Director of Engineering of the real customer.

8 ) Rossi refused to let IH's engineer in to see the E-Cat.

9) Once Rossi finally did let in IH's engineer, he determined that the E-Cat could not be producing 1 MW

See how specific these are? See how easy it is to refute them if they are untrue?

1) If the test really did run for the full 24 hours and at full power, Rossi should be able to show that with instrument records.

2) If there was6 an Italian regulation, Rossi can just cite it.

3) If the E-Cat did produce power in NC, Rossi should be able to describe this in detail and provide supporting evidence.

4) If there was a real customer, it is easy to show evidence from tax records, employee records, invoices, shipping records, etc.

5) If JMP was independent from Rossi and Johnson, they can provide the filed Florida (or wherever) records showing that.

6) If JMP was connected to Johnson Mathey, they can just get them to testify to such.

7) If James bass was the Director of Engineering of a real customer, he should be able to testify and provide evidence of that.

8 ) If Rossi did not prevent IH's engineer from coming in, he could testify to that.

9) If Rossi's E-Cat did produce 1MW, he would be able to cite evidence that contradicted IH's engineer.

If these allegations by IH are untrue, IH is a sitting duck!! They really must be a bunch of fools there.

What do we know so far from Rossi?

1) Rossi concedes this.

2) ?

3) ?

4) ?

5) We have FL incorporation records showing that Johnson is the President of both JMP and Leonardo.

6) We have an email (provided by IH) showing Rossi telling Johnson to name JMP 'Advanced Derivatives of Johnson Mathey', while subsequently we have Rossi claiming on JONP that there is no relation of the customer JMP to Johnson Mathey.

7) We have an email where Rossi (not JMP) is telling Bass what to say when visitors come to see the E-Cat. We don't have Bass's testimony however.

8 ) Rossi concedes he prevented IH's engineer from coming in, asserting that he thought he might be there to steal IP.

9) ?

What is Rossi's assertion?

- IH didn't have the money to pay the 89 Mil and never intended to. (IH has 50 Mill in holding, and has evidence it had access to 150 M more).

- IH lacks standing, and violated the contract by transferring the IP to IPH (which wholly owns IH).

- "I deny [essentially everything], and demand strict proof"

(Not very specific)

Penon is in Italy and not talking, Fabiani is in Russia and hasn't responded to the court on time (but he still has a few days before sanctions kick in).

Think about it.

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It seems as if you have it all tied up with a ribbon, all neat like. The thing is you've made a lot of assumptions that I personally disagree with and that are not forgone conclusions. I still think Rossi will prevail in this, and even if he fails in court it doesn't mean that he can't still prevail with a practical application of his invention.

Quote from Eric Walker

Perhaps you meant, "I resent that remark" (not sure).

Which complex theories of fraud are you referring to? My point was only that IH have not been attacking anyone.

No, you read it right. I was conceding your point.

Quote from Eric Walker

You agree with me, then, that IH has not been attacking anyone. But let's apply your logic to you: why would Rossi need to attack IH when he has you to do it for him?

I represent that remark, but all these theories of massive and complicated fraud are just too outlandish for consideration.

Quote from monty

Hi Dewey.

Nice to see you and the "planet rossi" monkey on ur back still alive and well

I don't want to miss the end of this already epic saga!

Quote from sigmoidal

Well, he wasn't alone. There's Penon and Fabiani (where are they BTW?). There's Johnson (who I imagine is not too happy he ever met Rossi at this point). And Bass, poor chap.

But I don't think that Rossi is merely a con man. He must be a delusional con man. Because only a delusional con man would have preemptively sued IH.

Think about Marianne Macy, or even Jed at one time. These are people trying to help make the world a better place, who unknowingly played into Rossi's delusional con.

Darden had the bucks to call Rossi's bluff. So Rossi, in the Masterpiece of all masterpieces, uses Darden's money to sue him for another $89 mil.

Here we are, waiting for the cards to be laid down in a Florida courtroom.

I suppose until then there's still hope for your story, whatever it is. Or Ascoli65's Big Conspiracy theory.

But the clock is ticking.

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I still don't buy it. Your scenario is just to outlandish for consideration. Think about it.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

I see that RiRi and Monty are rested and ready for another round of attempted zombie narrative shaping on behalf of Planet Rossi.

Monty - bring some facts to the party and try to convince me otherwise.

Or better yet - why are you here?

Here I am back. Don't worry. The thing is that nobody has enough so called "facts" to decide this game yet. Only the principals and their attorneys know all of them and they aren't telling each other, let alone including us in the background. The fact that we now know you are paid directly by IH makes anything you say suspect.

Quote from Eric Walker

IH are attacking and have attacked no one. They've been admirably discreet and vague about Rossi over a period of years and continuing into the lawsuit that was started against them with their own money. This discretion on their part has been turned around into fault for their not making a fuss in public earlier. The "attacks" you must be referring to would perhaps be Dewey Weaver's efforts to set the record straight on behalf of IH, his friends and business partners, when he's clarified, and they've clarified, that only IH speak for IH.

Why should they when the have such as Dewey and Jed to do it for them?

Quote from sigmoidal

Because, as you should know from the quote you posted, in this part of Marianne Macy's story regarding Rossi, he was looking for money. She was likely using her wealthy connections to help him out. She didn't have connections at MIT or CalTech. She had some wealthy connections in New York. She's the one telling the story. He may have been looking for support at MIT (in fact there is evidence he was in Boston). But she wasn't, and this is her story about what she knows about Rossi. She was there.

Do you really consider anything in Macy's story to be evidence of a conspiracy? I read it shortly after she posted it. For me, it seemed to confirm Rossi's extraordinary ability to deceive people. How does that fit in a 'Big Conspiracy'?

In her article, Macy states that Lewan, immediately after the lawsuit, hinted at a conspiracy (but with his own warnings to 'be careful' regarding conspiracy stories). I'm not hearing any talk about conspiracies from Lewan, who has gotten pretty silent over the past half year,

Maybe Lewan's silence is part of the Big Conspiracy.

To me, your line of thought is moving toward tin foil hat territory.

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It beggars reality that any one is capable of the long term deception with which you credit Rossi. It would take a team of con-men to pull it off. You've been watching too much television or too many movies.

Quote from Shane D.

As everyone knows, Dewey Weaver is Deep Water Ventures (DRV). Nothing wrong with that BTW...just pointing it out for background. IH contracted him as a consultant in May 2013. This IH description of his duties from the just released document 143, shows why he has been running all over the world:

DRV agrees to perform the following Scope of Work:

maintaining relationships with inventors and others in the field commonly known
as low energy nuclear reactions (the “Field”), identifying investment and strategic
partnership opportunities in the Field, staying abreast of all new developments in
the Field and routinely reporting such developments to Company management,
assisting with overall business, intellectual property and commercialization
strategy, and providing assistance in other capacities as requested by the Company .

DRV agrees in pertinent part:

to perform . . . all acts deemed necessary or desirable by the Company to permit
and assist it . . . in obtaining, maintaining, defending and enforcing patents, patent
rights, copyrights, trademark rights, trade secret rights or any other rights in
connection with such Developments . . . . Such acts may include, but are not
limited to, execution of documents and assistance or cooperation in legal
proceedings. Consultant hereby irrevocably designates and appoints the Company
and its duly authorized officers and agents, as Consultant’s agents and attorney-infact
to act for and on its behalf and instead of it, to execute and file any documents,
applications or related findings and to do all other lawfully permitted acts to further
the purposes set forth in this subsection [], including . . . the perfection of assignment and the prosecution and issuance of patents, patent applications,
copyright applications and registrations, trademark applications and registrations or
other rights in connection with such Developments and improvements thereto with
the same legal force and effect as if executed by Consultant.

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Seems like that would keep him busy enough to preclude posting so much on here, again, unless this is actually part of his job.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Surprisingly - if you look at this objectively - yes. I don't notice Dewey doing the type of snide innuendo that you do. Sure, he is entertaining, but this after all is a (EDIT: forum), and entertainment is much of what it does!

I realise IHFB, that you see yourself as on the side of the angels standing up for truth, exposing the BIG LIES of the Deceiver. If you look at your arguments, you are objecting to natural (mild) hyperbole from Jed, or stuff forgotten and got wrong in the heat of the moment, or taking a RossiSays that Dewey is paid to post here as fact. BTW - I can't see that for common sense reasons. Not because in principle IH might not (reasonably) pay somone to do PR on blogs, but because:

• In the grand scheme of things, even in the narrow LENR community (where IH has an interest) this blog and wrangles on it are insignificant. If you feel otherwise you should examine yourself for other grandiose tendencies.
• Dewey, unless incompetent - which he don't seem to me - will be earning so much more in his day job. Posting here would need to be his choice of leisure
• Dewey is not that good as a PR agent. You, IHFB, single-handedly are more effective. Your brand of innuendo combined with holier-than though "I'm just trying to find the truth" is remarkably good, I think, at keeping its minority audience happy.

So: why am I not on your side, exposing all these little innacuracies from Planet IH? Because I have a sense of proportion. We all err. we all exaggerate mildly to make a case. But few adopt the wholesale deception that Rossi is now as good as proven to have done on several occasions, with very strong circumstantial evidence he has done it on many others. What makes this compelling is that in spite of this Rossi's memes are so powerful, activating people like you, as well as unshakable followers such as Peter. It is, I think, the lure of free energy. With great hopes so come great biasses.

PS - when it comes to scientific accuracy no bias is acceptable (though we are all biassed). I supported even rb0 of all people (whom I abhor, and whose fictions are poisonous) questioning P (whom I have a great respect for) over some lacunae of emissivity issues. It was hard to press submit on that post. But not all science is absolute (ok, philosophically no science is absolute, because it is all inductive speculation). You cannot prove anything about this test, given the fragmentary and contaminated data we have (IH may however be able to do better with stuff not yet released - I'd expect that - they have made arguments that given the right investigation should be easily provable in Court). Certain things are still clear beyond reasonable doubt.

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If only P and F had (had) passionated supporters like IHFB back in the day. And has it occurred to you that posting on this forum might actually be part of Dewey's day job responsibilities?

Quote from DNI

Of course he's a part in the case. That has not been a secret since he stoped writing under the name NcHawk. Dewey has never denied being a part in the case. But that doesn't make him a troll. If Rossi, Pennon or Fabiani came here and write about theire side of the story. Under theire real name, would you consider them as trolls as well?

I certainly wouldn't consider them unbiased.

Quote from sigmoidal

That's an interesting perspective, as after 7 years of observing Rossi, I have such a different perspective. It's obvious to me that Rossi is a fraud who has harmed dozens and dozens of people (at least) with his lies. Dewey, as an investor and 'insider' with IH has no doubt experienced some significant loss because of Rossi. So it seems obvious to me that his comments stem from that.

I don't know how you can reconcile Dewey as 'trollbot' with Dewey as a person with more direct knowledge of IH and Rossi than any of us posting here.

Or is your definition of 'trollbot' any person who persistently disagrees with you?

Can you name anyone else with more direct/inside information than Dewey? The only other person who posts on this site that I can think of would be Jed. Perhaps you think Jed is a 'trollbot' too?

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Knowing now about this business relationship between IH and Deep River I'm sure he does have special information, but how he uses it is still up for conjecture. If he is being paid by IH and his income stream depends on representing them only then why would he be honest with any of us on here. I am strongly suspicious that he is being directed by IH on how to respond to comments posted here, in which case he is not just a 'trollbot', but a "super trollbot" because he has so much more at stake than just a paid FUD poster.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Sad though it is, the answer for many here would appear to be yes.

This whole idea of spreading FUD is big business today and professionals are hired regularly at great cost by politicians, businesses and people involved in court litigation just like this. It is a growing new industry in the age of the internet.

Quote from Roger

You need to stop implying that Dewey Weaver is a trollbot operating for IH/Cherokee under the umbrella of plausible deniability they set up at the start of the trial, when stating that the only communication from them will be official, which means that people should disregard hearsay or others seemingly speaking in IH/Cherokee's name

But isn't that exactly what he is? A trollbot. It seems so obvious now.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Well, Rossi alleging that Dewey is paid by IH to assassinate his reputation is understandable - though if so I'm pretty sure Dewey could find more profitable assignments and IH could find more effective assassins. So like many RossiSays it has blog plausibility but looks flaky when closely examined.

I prefer Dewey's story that he is here unpaid to defend his friends against the monstrous allegations of a known liar whose cause is nevertheless championed by many here. Either way I don't think Deweys' posts win any hearts and minds - but they are good fun!

If he is indeed head of Deep River then he is definitely being paid by IH.

Quote from sigmoidal

143 - IH files a Memorandum of Law regarding communications with Deep River Ventures protected by attorney-client privilege and work product doctrine.

Summary: IH asserts that Attorney-Client Privilege (and Work Product doctrine) protects some communications with Deep River Ventures (DRV), "an independent contractor engaged by Industrial Heat to serve as an intellectual property (IP) consultant". The 'Managing Partner' for DRV is none other than Dewey Weaver. IH and DRV jointly engaged two law firms as IP consultants regarding patent applications and possible other IP-related ventures. At a 2017-02-07 hearing, the court provided two examples of email communications (which are not included on the docket) - one with and one without appropriate attorney-client privilege, in order to guide IH on appropriate application of privilege. IH then gives a fairly lengthy discussion as to why "many" of the communications with DRV are privileged. IH also cites and includes several exhibits, including the executed legal agreements between IH and DRV, and jointly between IH and DRV and two IP legal consultants. The final Exhibit C is pages 1 and 22 of the 55 page transcript of the hearing held on 2017-02-07. It is worth reading, as it provides a glimpse into Rossi's attorney Brian Chaiken's allegations, and one can safely surmise that a common pro-IH poster here is being referenced (though redacted):

THE COURT: I don't see that person's name. I only see one Weaver on here.

MR. CHAIKEN: |REDACTED| is on the first page, |REDACTED|.

THE COURT: Oh, I see it, yes.

MR. CHAIKEN: And on the second page you'll find |REDACTED|.

THE COURT: I see that. So who is Deep River Ventures?

MR. CHAIKEN: I'm glad you asked, Your Honor. Deep River Ventures is a consultant hired by Industrial Heat or Cherokee or, you know, it is still unclear because we've never received an executed version of the agreement. We've received drafts of the agreement.

Now, it is our understanding, through hearing testimony from Industrial Heat VP, that Deep River Ventures was retained for the purposes of helping them with their IP strategy. And perhaps acquiring additional IP related to the technology at issue and finding investors related to that.

And we've also received through discovery things showing that, in fact, what Deep River and |REDACTED| were doing is anything but that as it relates to |REDACTED| And in fact , what |REDACTED| was really doing was attempting to do a character assassination of |REDACTED| on-line.

I leave it as an exercise to the Reader to fill in the |REDACTED|'s. Interesting...

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I see this as confirming a complete conflict of interest for Dewey Weaver concerning anything he says on this forum.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

What's going on with Peter's writing style over the past 12 hours?

Perhaps English isn't his first language just like Rossi. Have we sunken to the level here of ridiculing a learned man simply because he is of another nationality. Personally I think he is doing fine and have no problem understanding what he is saying, unlike Dewey who seems to speak in riddles half the time.

Quote from Peter Gluck

Dear SSC,

Courage amigo! I am a four time winner of black belt 8th Dan

in verbal karate and will protect you.

Just I will ot fight against genuine proofs if/when they will come.

Peter

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Am I the only one here who senses a similarity here to what happened to P and F shortly after their 1989 experiment. First they said it wasn't scientifically possible. Then the news came that it couldn't be replicated (even though it was in several instances) and finally the accusations that they had faked everything (sound familiar). I wonder how much of this is professional jealousy from some of these scientific minds that they were beat to the punch by such as Rossi, or P and F.

Quote from Bob

Just to confirm my understanding, did not the Rossi supplied data show that 1mw plant continued output over the weekend?

If so, the "supposed manufacturing" would have had to continue as to where else would the 1mw of heat go! If the manufacturing continued over the weekend, then there would have been regular electrical consumption as on the week days, so there should not have been the "weekday peaks and weekend lows".

So the FLP data seems to show:

1) That for significant periods of time, less electrical energy was billed to the facility than what the Rossi report states was used, which is problematic

2) That the facility electrical usage dropped over the weekend, even though the eCat plant still showed full output. Which raises the issue of why would the

input drop on the weekend if the facilty was still in manufacturing mode?

I am sure there will be "speculation" that the secret customer "could have" dumped the heat down the drain during the weekends or that there was some secret process that used all the 1mw of heat sourced but did not require any other interactions for two days.... i.e. something just "set and cooked"!

People can always dream up the "could possibly" scenarios, but in reality, "whatever is most likely is likely to be the truth". What is most likely is the numbers simply do not add up to what "we were told" by Rossi.

Thanks for the work on the charts and I would appreciate your confirmation if I am reading it correctly. Peaks and lows of input power, "constant" output by the eCat plant. If I am incorrect on the interpretation, please advise.

Thanks again.

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Someone reported seeing 1 or more condenser/radiator assemblies on the customer side. Could it be that these were utilized on the weekends, when the customer was not working, so that the ECat could continue uninterrupted? That's really no more conjecture than most of the ideas being thrown around.

Quote from THHuxleynew

I think Peter what you are saying here is 100% wrong. You seem to have lost the plot. If the data is Fake then nothing needs to be explained. Nor can any speculations be made because without (non-fake) data we do not have a clue what were temps etc.

Perhaps you are asking, how could the claimed data be (sort of) real and Rossi's device not work?

Very easily! you look at the headline COP=200 and reckon that this cannot be explained away. Let me lead you through why it can. I'm sure, in fact, that if you pay attention to what people have said here you already know this? but here goes:

The key thing is the assumption of phase change for flow round the system. Specifically rossi's figures assume all water is vapourised, leave his reactor has 100% dry steam, returns as liquid. It is very easy indeed for such a system (without careful trapping etc) to have water flow so that 99% or more of all water circulates in liquid phase. There is absolutely no evidence there is significant phase change and significant evidence (103C for a high flow rate pumped system) that there is no phase change. Of course with 100% phase change, as Rossi and the ERV assume, the output temperature would never be near 100C even at atmospheric pressure. And the factory would get too hot. The evidence against Rossi's and the (clearly professionally incompetent and, it seems, in hiding) ERV assumption is cast iron. (Maybe Penon did not author or authorise the report - but in that case allowing it to be used without clear written refutation must surely at best be professional incompetence).

If we (for one moment) accept Rossi's 1500kg/h that removes a total power of 1500*2257 kJ/h = 940kW from the calculations. We are down from 1MW to 60kW output. If 1% of the water is actually delivered as steam that goes up to 70kW. You get the idea.

Next, let us examine the other component of the "heat delivered" equation. That comes from heating the water. It is (Tin-Tout)*1500*4kJ/hour/C = 1.7kW/C. So with no phase change, accepting 1500kg/h, we have an expected temperature rise from Rossi's 20kW input of about 13C.

The figures we have (103C and and 60C) would superficially seem to indicate more than that. The problem is that neither figure represents mixed flow liquid temperature on the inlet vs outlet sides, which is what we would need. It is very easily for water to circulate going between 103C and 90C (stablised at 103C by small amts of phase change). it is also very easy for water to circulate between 60 and 73C with the outlet unmixed and the temperature measurement looking at a small amount of high temp steam.

Or, the two temperature readings could both be correct, and the flowmeter could be spoofed as Jed suggests.

Or, some combination of the three error mechanisms.

Now, Peter, I have answered your question. Suppose you answer mine. What evidence do you have that Rossi's devices have ever generated any excess heat? I'm looking here for positive evidence from tests, not speculations and conspiracy theories.

Regards, THH

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Why should you have a monopoly on speculation, because at this point that's all anyone has. There is simply not enough information available for your own supposition.