Tom,
I studied the report and know the values from the report. As I have shown, the joule heating values from the report are deadly wrong.
You may use my formulas and the total power values from the report to calculate the correct values (as i did for the example).
@Tom Paulsen
The 9.85 A thing is totally wrong. This is where the essence of the Joule heat error occurs.
No, the 9,85 A is absolute correct. I think the errors occurred from the x3 and x6 multiplications. And in an AC system the current does not always flows through the C1 cable first an through the C2 cables next. It is symmetrically balanced, no need to complicate things.
@Thomas Clarke
Your right, but there is no heater coil current data for the active E-Cat. We don't know the currents exactly. All we know from the report is that they are in total in a range of 40 to 50 A. If you re-calculate the joule heatings (16 values for the active E-Cat) and use these values to estimate the currents, you'll get a nearly linear ratio.
To give an example:
Joule heating corrected for the dummy reactor (486W), given line current 19.7 A, is 3,88 W.
Joule heating for the active E-Cat (815,86W), assuming a line current of 25.5 A, is about 6.51 W.
815,86 / 486 = 1,678
6,51 / 3,88 = 1,677
Joule/Heater
3,88 / (486-3,88) = 3,88 / 482,12 = 0,008
6,51 / (815,86-6,51) = 6,51 / 809,35 = 0,008
WC1:
The single phase current is 19.7 A. The system current is 19.7 A * sqrt(3), because the current of 19.7 A runs not all times through all cables. What we want to calculate is the joule heating, not only for a single line/phase, but for the whole system. This is done by calculating the joule heating for a single line and then multiplying this value by sqrt(3) for the whole system.
WC2:
If you simply split the cabels, you don't get more or less total current. In this case the phase current is divided by two, because both lines have the same resistance. So we can calculate the heating for a single wire with half the current (9.85A). But there are two wires, so we multiply by two and to get the value for the complete system we multiply by sqrt(3).
Agreed Tom. But the interesting feature, the X3 difference in ratio between Joule and heater powers, remains.
If you do a re-calculation (using the correct formulas) of the joule heating values for the active E-Cat, then there is no more factor X3 difference.
The formulas for calculation of joule heat in the Lugano test report (page 14) are wrong and should be corrected as follows:
WC1 = sqrt(3)*(R1*(I1^2)) = 1,732*(0,004375*(19.7^2)) = 2,94 [W] (9)
WC2 = sqrt(3)*2*(R2*(I2^2)) = 1,732*2*(0,002811*(9.85^2)) = 0,94 [W] (10)
W tot dummy = WC1 + WC2 = 2,94 + 0,94 = 3,88 [W] (11)
General usage of these (correct) formulas eliminates the extremely nonlinear differences in joule heating values between the dummy reactor and the active E-Cat.
See what you think of this:
Just checked your "Dummy Run" picture. The single phase voltage is too high (14.x V). Should be 8.x V.
Please refer to my calculation for the dummy reactor.
The calculation of the joule heating values is wrong in the report. They used factor 3, but sqrt(3) would have been correct. So I think that it doesn't make sense to evaluate other configurations, based on these false values.
I will do a recalculation of the joule heating values, when i find some time to do so.
Tom,
yes, there seems to be a problem with the calculations of the joule heating powers in the report.
But if we would assume the 46A single coil current, which Andrea S. calculated based on the joule heating power of the active E-Cat at 778 W, that would result to a phase voltage of only about 5.6 volts. Or about 9 V for 80A total ( not in the range mentioned in LTR ) compared to 14,4 Volt for 479 W of the dummy. The NTC and a very small phase angle would be a big challenge for the PID and the FUSION SCR.
Failure of a single phase (SCR channel) may also lead to higher currents in the cables (but not 3x).
P.S.
One miscalculation in the LTR is the multiplication of the single line loss by 3. Sqrt(3) would be correct. So the joule heating values are wrong and should have been re-calculated.
The reactor used in the Lugano test was equipped with 3 heater coils in an AC 3-phase balanced delta configuration (see Figure 4 of the Lugano test report (LTR) "Observation of abundant heat production from a reactor device and of isotopic changes in the fuel").
There had been discussions, wether the power consumption values in the LTR are plausible using usual wires for the heater coils or if these values would require a miracle material.
Some calculations (published by discussion members) showed large differences between the single coil resistance of the dummy reactor, when compared to values calculated for the active E-Cat.
The lack of information about voltages, resistances etc. in the LTR, makes it not possible to calculate exact values for the active E-Cat. But it is possible to probe, wether the values given in the LTR might be plausible.
This task requires some knowledge of the conditions in 3-phase AC balanced delta configurations. So, there is a shot summery:
For 3 Phase AC and a balanced Delta Configuration the total power equals 3 times the power of a single phase.
The total current is sqrt(3) times the current of a single phase.
The total voltage is sqrt(3) times the voltage of a single phase (e.g. 400V total gives 230V single phase) and the total resistance is the resistance of a single phase divided by sqrt(3).
Calculations of heater coil resistances
Dummy reactor at 450°C:
From the LTR one can take the values of 486 W input - 7 W joule heating (line-losses subtracted) = 479 W with 19.7 A current for a single phase.
An exact calculation of the single coil resistance is possible:
19.7A * sqrt(3) = 34.12 A (total current = single phase current * sqrt(3))
479 W / 34.12 A = 14.04 V (total voltage = total power / total current)
(The 14.04 V are for example comparable to the 400V line voltage. The voltage of a single line 230 V e.g. is calculated 400 V devided by sqrt(3)).
14.04 V / sqrt(3) = 8.11 V (single phase voltage = total voltage / sqrt(3))
8.11 V / 19.7 A = 0.41 Ohms (single coil resistance = single phase voltage / single phase current)
Probe:
8.11 V * 19.7 A = 159.77 W (single phase power = single phase voltage * single phase current)
159.77 W * 3 = 479.03 W (total power = single phase power * 3)
For a single heater coil at 450°C and a net input power of 479 W a resistance of 0.41 Ohms is calculated (the total resistance equals to 0.41 Ohms / sqrt(3) = 0.237 Ohms - further needed for verification using web-calculator).
Active E-Cat at 1260°C:
Consumption is 815.86 Watt subtracting the joule heating of 37.77 W one get a net consumption of the 3 heater coils in total of 778.09 W.
There is no exact data for the coil currents available. The report mentions 40 - 50 Amps for the total of the 3 coils.
But it is possible to prove whether the info in the report might be be plausible or not.
Let someone for example assume a total current of 43A.
The current for a single heater coil equals to:
43 A / sqrt(3) = 24.83 A (single phase current = total current / sqrt(3))
The calculation steps as for the dummy reactor:
778.09 W / 43 A = 18.09 V (total voltage = total power / total current)
18.09 V / sqrt(3) = 10.45 V (single phase voltage = total voltage / sqrt(3))
10.45 V / 24.83 A = 0.42 Ohms (single coil resistance = single phase voltage / single phase current)
Probe:
10.45 V * 24.83 A = 259.47 W (single phase power = single phase voltage * single phase current)
259.47 W * 3 = 778.41 W (total power = single phase power * 3)
For a single heater coil at 1260°C and a net power input of 778.09W a resistance of 0.42 Ohms is calculated (the total resistance equals to 0.42 Ohms / sqrt(3) = 0.242 Ohms - further needed for verification using web-calculator).
Conclusions:
The information in the LTR is plausible, at least according to the input power consumption with respect to real existing and usual heater wire materials.
My calculations show a single coil resistance of 0.41 Ohms at 450°C and a single coil resistance of 0.42 Ohms at 1260°C. (The 0.42 Ohms for the active E-Cat at 1260° were calculated under the assumption, that the total input current is 43 A - other assumptions (40-50A) and values are possible).
Real existing and usual wire materials could have been used.
With best wishes
Tom
P.S.
If you doubt my calculations, then you may check these using the 3-phase delta calculator at:
https://www.watlow.com/Resourc…neering-Tools/Calculators
Be sure you have selected "3-Phase Delta (Balanced Load)" in the calculator selection box!
Then enter only two values:
Phase Current (lp)> 19.7
Watts (W)> 479
Leave the other fields empty and press calculate.
The applet shows phase voltage 8.1049... and Ohms 0.2375... . The resistance in Ohms is that of the total circuit, for a single coil and multiplied by sqrt(3) that gives 0.411141... .
Press RESET
Enter only two example values for the active E-Cat:
Phase Current (lp)> 24.83
Watts (W)> 778.09
Leave other fields empty and press calculate.
The applet shows phase voltage 10.4455... and Ohms 0.24288... . The resistance in Ohms is that of the total circuit, for a single coil and multiplied by sqrt(3) that gives 0.420668... .
I think, that a generally manipulative behavior and some "out of context" quoting may only lead to a very peculiar reality.
That form of reality, which always amuses me.
The users here are very intelligent people and I'm sure that they will recognize your true motivation, some sooner, some later.
So, good luck for your mission!
3 Freaky wave forms give other measurements results:
→ The report states clearly that they did not use the chopping, opposite to prior tests (Bologna). Further on they did run the reactor for 10 days in low power mode. Thus initially no freaky wave forms were present. The current used, was a bit less than 60 Amps for the heating. Its written there.
The report states clearly that they did not use the ON/OFF mode:
QuoteWe also chose not to induce the ON/OFF power input mode ...
"Chopping" (phase-angle-mode as shown in Figure 5 of the report) was used all the time.
Please read again and don't fly over the letters, words..etc. This thread is full of second hand coments, may be You all have only a short version (abstract) of the original Lugano Report..
Thanks, but i have a full copy, studied it and also had run a simulation of the described delta-coil-configuration.
You are really Joking !!!! download the report and see the picture is just one ( I3).
There is no way, that a Fusion SCR (or any other AC SCR/TRIAC) can generate these waveforms on a single channel.
Maybe you should download something:
You have completely forgotten that you are looking at only one phase of a three phase AC system.
...
There is no such information in the report picture which is related to only one phase.
Figure 5 in the Lugano report shows (on the left side of the PC830 display) the waveforms of TWO phases.
In WO2016018851 A1 the description is slghtly different:
QuoteDisplay More
In one embodiment, the reagents are placed in
the reaction chamber at a pressure of 3-6 bar and a temperature of from
400 C to 600 C. An anode is placed at one side of the reactor and a
cathode is placed at the other side of the reactor. This accelerates
electrons between them to an extent sufficient to have very high energy,
in excess of 100 KeV. Regulation of the electron energy can be carried
out by regulating the electric field between the cathode and the anode .
QuoteThis is an extension of the patent to create prior art to cover the (still under development) E-CatX.
Yes. The international application of Rossi's FLUID HEATER patent (WO2016018851 A1) refers to 61/999,582 as prior art and not to the US version of his fluid heater patent US 9,115,913 B1. 61/999,582 and corresponding informations in WO2016018851A1 seem to be the description of the E-CatX, what i think has been overlooked until now.
All replicators should pay attention to Rossi's provisional US-patent 61/999,582, filing-date: August 01, 2014. Provisional patents are not published at USPTO but another site published a copy of this patent which contains the following description:
Quote
"In a reactor are put nickel powders, hydrides at a pressure of 3-6 bars an a temperature of 400-600 Celsius, AND AT ONE SIDE OF THE REACTOR IS PUT AN ANODE, AT THE OPPOSITE A CATHODE, so that electrons are accelerated up to 100 keV, ..."
At the ends of the reactor are an anode and a cathode!!!
Quote
"4 - a generator of direct current connected with a cathode and an anode to accelrate the electrons"
So Rossi is using DC to initiate (and maybe control) the reaction. (And possibly uses the anode and cathode for direct extraction of electric energy after the reaction occured - ECatX.)
Available text/description from 61/999,582:
P.S.
My speculation ist that Rossi has allways used DC to trigger (and control) the reaction in his working samples but never disclosed this fact. This makes perfect sense because describing this in a patent which is normally not public availiable gives him "prior art" and his published patents e.g. US 9,115,913 B1, WO2016018851 A1 which contain no reference to the anode/cathode and dc usage, can conceal this fact but claiming priotry of 61/999,582.
Another speculation is that 61/999,582 shows the conception of his E-CatX.
And maybe both speculations are true.
