Ascoli65 Member
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Posts by Ascoli65

    No, I know for a fact it has no significant foam. I know because I have seen a clear, close up video of a boil off; because there is a photo of a boil-off at LENR-CANR.org;

    Fact are welcome, but words are not facts. Where is the close up video you are talking about? This video (1) at t=00:27 shows a close up of a F&P cell producing bubbles. Is that the video you are referring to?


    Quote

    … because there is a photo of a boil-off at LENR-CANR.org

    Could you please post this photo, or provide its address?


    Quote

    because Fleischmann, Bockris and many other electrochemists told me that bubbles are fatal to cold fusion and most other electrochemical experiments. Those are not theoretical grounds. They are observations and common sense.

    In this case, they are just fatuous words, anecdotes. The only solid facts shown in this discussion are the videos of the "1992 boil off" experiment. They prove that both F&P conclusions contained in their Simplicity Paper are wrong.


    (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OQu44UIC_s

    I think this whole thing is fatuous. We have two skeptics throwing peanuts based on a paper written decades ago by two scientists who would probably not employed them as lab technicians. Based on ropey evidence too. Better men than these two tried to bring F&P down, and they only did it by lying to Congress about their own results.

    The two scientist and the 1992 Simplicity Paper are those mentioned in the "Review of the calorimetry of Fleischmann and Pons" (1) that JR published in August 2020, that is only 2 years ago, and that he mentioned at least a dozen times since then, in order to support his thesis. They also appear on the front cover of the comic book "Discover Cold Fusion". Therefore, I think that investigating whether the conclusions in the Simplicity Paper are correct or not is a legitimate and proper argument.


    I've pointed to two well specific errors contained in the paper, which completely undermine both the conclusions of F&P. These errors can be only detected by closely examining the time-lapse video recorded during the experiment. Two version of this video were only published in 2009 and 2012 only.


    I doubt that the "better men" which have tried to evaluate the correctness of the Simplicity Paper before 2009 have had the chance to look closely at these videos. Huizenga and Morrison attended the presentation at ICCF3 in Nagoya, where Pons showed and explained a lab video (2), but just watching it once it's not enough to detect the F&P errors. It's necessary to watch it many times and very carefully as Robert Horst did more recently (3).


    (1) https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJreviewofth.pdf

    (2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n88YdKYv8sw

    (3) RE: FP's experiments discussion

    When I get time, I will boil liquids in dewars and post the results like it or not.

    Boiling water in dewars takes some time and it will be substantially inconclusive: if you will find a lot of foam, some people here will say that you did not use the same water, glass , salt, and so on used by F&P in 1992.


    In the meanwhile, could you please tell us your opinion about the presence of foam in the cells as shown in the two available lab videos (1-2) of the "1992 boil off" experiment?


    Is the interpretation given by Robert Horst (3) correct for you?


    (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9K1Hvw434

    (2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBAIIZU6Oj8

    (3) RE: FP's experiments discussion

    As I said, if you were serious, you would boil some water in a graduated cylinder and see for yourself how well the volume can be measured.

    The topic of this thread refers to the F&P's "1992 boil off" experiments, not mine.


    For at least 5 years, you have been challenging people here on L-F to find errors in MF experiments. For instance, you wrote (1): "You are talking in generalities only. In experimental science, you have to point to specifics. If the experiments by McKubre, Miles or Fleischmann are wrong, you have to say why they are wrong. Waving your hands and saying "there might be an error" is not valid, because that cannot be tested or falsified. A negative evaluation has to be supported with as much rigor and as many facts as a positive one. You have no facts. You cannot cite any specific errors. No skeptic has published an evaluation of any experiment showing errors. They lose by default."


    I've pointed to two specific errors in MF's major work on CF. In experimental science you have to answer to my specific remarks. Waving your hands and saying "boil this, boil that" is not valid, because it has nothing to do with my specific remarks about the errors made by F&P in writing their Simplicity Paper.


    (1) RE: How many times has the Pons-Fleischmann Anomalous Heating Event been replicated in peer reviewed journals?

    Ascoli's arguments are based on nonsense and his overworked imagination. If he -- or you -- were serious, you would test these ideas with some simple experiments.

    In your "Review of the calorimetry of Fleischmann and Pons" (1) you wrote: "Unfortunately, this is an old VHS video, and it is a copy of a copy, so the quality is degraded and the picture is blurry, but you can still see when the boil off events begin and end."


    Therefore, if you were serious, you would just tell us which are the time stamps on the video (2) when the boil off events begin and end.


    In the same review you wrote: "The video is synchronized with the computer data of temperature and cell electrolysis input power".


    Therefore, if you were serious, you would just tell us which is the time stamp on the video when cell 2 full dries and then you would show us how it corresponds to the position of the vertical arrow on Fig.8 of the Simplicity Paper (3).


    These are the simple and correct ways in which you should prove that my arguments are based on nonsense and my overworked imagination


    (1) https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJreviewofth.pdf

    (2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9K1Hvw434  

    (3) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf

    I watched the video. It is popular fluff and highly inaccurate. I don't pay much attention to such things - if I did they would annoy me.

    I know the video is a popular fluff story, but I directed your attention only to its short segment described in my old comment and which starts at 00:27 and ends at 00:54. Those images have been taken at IMRA lab in June 1992, a few weeks after the end of the experiment described in the Simplicity Paper. The camera was probably the same one used for the time lapse video of the "1992 boil off" experiment. The June video clearly shows that the cell is full of foam and that MF and a Japanese guest were looking at the cells.


    Quote

    Otherwise - you have made your point that F&P's boil-off phase calculation here seems very wrong when the video is closely examined.

    I don't go round speculating as to why its wrong. It is not a helpful thing to do with science. Just let them have made a mistake.

    I am also for the mistake, but not just one. In the simplicity paper, there are at least two huge mistakes, one for each of the two final claims of the paper: (a) 4 times excess heat and (b) HAD.


    Therefore, 2 out of 2 conclusions in the Simplicity Paper are wrong. And this was the paper which was selected in 2004 by 5 of the most prominent experts in the field to be submitted to DOE for demonstrating the reality of CF!

    F&P are not alive to defend themselves. But, were someone to critique a paper of mine, I'd want to answer the criticism directly.

    JR reported (1-2) that he was helped by Pons for his "Review of the calorimetry of Fleischmann and Pons" (3), he published only 2 years ago, and repeatedly mentioned since then.


    On page 16 of his review, JR wrote:

    " The boil off method of calorimetry is simple compared the isoperibolic method, hence the title of the paper, “Simplicity.”

    It takes about 10 minutes for half of the water to boil away. We know it takes that long because they made a time-lapse video of the event with a time stamp on the screen. The time when the boil off was triggered was known. The time when the boil off ends, with all of the water gone from the cell can be clearly seen in the video.

    The video is on YouTube here:

    "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9K1Hvw434"

    Unfortunately, this is an old VHS video, and it is a copy of a copy, so the quality is degraded and the picture is blurry, but you can still see when the boil off events begin and end. The video is synchronized with the computer data of temperature and cell electrolysis input power."


    So, JR says, that despite the degraded and blurry (in his opinion) picture, "you can still see when the boil off events begin and end". Therefore he, Pons, McKubre, or any other expert in electrolysis could tell which are, for each of the 4 cells, the 2 frames of the mentioned video in which the boil off begins and ends.


    Moreover, since "the video is synchronized with the computer data of temperature" they could also tell which is the frame which corresponds to the vertical arrow on Fig.8 of the Simplicity paper.


    (1) RE: What is the current state of LENR?

    (2) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (3) https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJreviewofth.pdf


    PS - Did you see my previous reply to you and the mentioned video?

    Actually - I don't go as far as you!


    I never thought those rubbish videos proved anything much.

    It depend on what you are looking for. If you are looking for something that proves or disproves the existence of the CF phenomenon, those videos, which are not rubbish at all, prove nothing.


    But those videos, compared with Fig.8 and the calculation on page 16 of the Simplicity Paper, do certainly prove that the authors of that very important paper made two huge mistakes, from which they derived the two, and only two, claims of that work. We also know that F&P have confirmed and strenuously defended the reality of these claims for years and decades. Therefore, those videos do prove the scientific unreliability of the authors of the Simplicity Paper.


    In short, the "1992 boil-off" lab video shouldn't be considered as a test on the reality of CF, but as a test on the scientific reliability of its proponents.


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    I think F&P have the classic disease got by people who are infinitely more experienced than their audience. They leave out steps, make assumptions based on what they know.

    Or, rather, based on what they were hoping! And, for this same reason, they probably avoided to take steps they feared might contradict their desired, but only apparent, findings.


    Quote

    It is a bit like with Rossi. Suppose they had what they say. Then they could so easily have documented that experiment more carefully - chosen enthalpy calculation points that were quantitatively justified - not "estimating levels on a video" where foam and liquid and boiling liquid all look pretty similar. Made an iron-clad case that would convince their many doubters.

    Yes, there are many similarities with Rossi.


    However, the "1992 boil-off experiment" is really a good one. The time lapse video was an excellent way to understand what was going on in the cells. I agree with you, it's not enough to pinpoint exactly the liquid level inside the cells, but it's enough to conclude that the energy balance at page 16 of the Simplicity Paper is totally wrong. The authors completely ignored the fact that, in the final boil-off stage, the cells were full of foam. Not a word about that!


    Now, watch please this very interesting video (1), and please read this old comment of mine (2a-b). The images I talk about in the comment have been shot on June 23, 1992, that is 6-7 weeks after the conclusion of the "1992 boil-off" experiment and 4 months before the presentation of the Simplicity Paper at ICCF3. How could F&P have ignored the presence of foam in their cells?


    Quote

    The LENR community is very happy it is now being taken seriously. I am happy too. That serious work will lead to more clarity over whether LENR exists or not - surely something we will all welcome?

    Unfortunately, the reactions to our comments show how much the LENR community is happy to discuss seriously about these evidences.


    (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OQu44UIC_s

    (2a) RE: FP's experiments discussion

    (2b) https://imgur.com/9ZIgaNK

    I think this is the best challenge to the F&P results I have seen, (ultimately correct or not) and it is better to get to the bottom of it rather than sweep dissent under the carpet.

    And just to get to the bottom, what is your ultimate opinion on the following 2 specific errors contained in the F&P's Simplicity Paper?


    (a) foam-by-liquid confusion in evaluating the heat balance at page 16, as explained in (a1-4);

    (b) misplacement of the "Cell dry" vertical arrow in Fig.8, as explained in (b1-3).


    (a1) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (a2) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (a3) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (a4) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?


    (b1) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (b2) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (b3) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    I agree. However there is a possibility that foam is created during the boil-off and gradually goes down after all boiling has stopped. So determining the exact end of the boil-off period is not straightforward.

    Yes, exactly. Not only is it possible but also likely that, for each cell, the lowest blue arrow doesn't indicate the end of the boil off period, but only the frame at which the foam level has ceased to drop. But I can't see how could compromise the conclusion that the heat balance at page 16 of the Simplicity Paper is totally wrong, as F&P ignored the fact that in the final boil-off period the cell contents was mostly foam.


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    I agree that subject to possible foam generation and subsidence the 600s must be at the end.

    Do you also agree that the lab videos undoubtedly prove that F&P made a huge mistake in calculating the rate of enthalpy output?


    Or do you still have any objections that might contradict this conclusion?


    Quote

    Jed, or others here, may dispute your determination of the liquid level in the cells. It would be interesting to see which video frames he considers correspond to 50% and 0% liquid level.

    You are too optimistic. You already know what kind of answers was given to the observation about the wrong position of the vertical arrow in Fig.8.

    Yes, that is my understanding of your point. It seems very likely (as Robert Horst also thought). To prove it to close-minded skeptics here (Jed etc) you need only to show that there is no 600s segment on the videos that corresponds to a 50% to 0% liquid level change.

    F&P said they considered the last half of the boiled water, therefore this 600s segment has to be necessarily at the end of the boil-off, it can't be elsewhere. The available videos, both the one published by Krivit and the one published by Rothwell, include these final boil-off periods, one for each cell, but none of them show a drop in liquid level from 50% to 0% in 600s.


    Let me show this other jpeg which refers to Cell1: https://imgur.com/a/q7QpRF5


    Frames 1 to 4 are taken from the video published by Rothwell and frames A and B from the video published by Krivit.


    The transparent part indicates the cell portion in which the cell content is almost full liquid. Some more liquid could be present in the volume above the dotted red lines, but the dynamic on the video shows that it is mostly foam.


    Frames 1 and 2 are the first and last in the first clip referring to Cell 1 boiling. They lie about 3 hours before the dry-out time and show that the water mass is already well below 50%, which means that the cell has been losing heat by evaporation for a long time.


    After this first clip, there is a long period of missing frames which lasts more than 2 hours. The second clip starts with frame 3, which shows that the residual water mass has halved once again. We can also note that the upper level of the foamy part has dropped by approximately one diameter (1 in).


    In the first part of this second clip, up to frame 4, the liquid water is reduced to about 1 cm, but on the same time the foam level rise again at a level even higher than in the first clip. What does it happened?


    Well, the lowering of the liquid around the cathode, decreased the wetted surface of the cathode so that the resistance increased and consequently, due to the constant current, the voltage and the dissipated power jumped to maximum. This enhanced the generation of bubbles in the residual liquid volume, which inflated and pushed up the fine and more persistent foam presents along the cell.


    Finally the last frames A and B show that when the liquid around the cathode is almost completely vaporized, the production of bubbles ceases and the column of foam above deflates and rapidly lower its level up to the volume of the fine and persistent foam.


    This is what the videos show.


    The same videos were watched by F&P in 1992. In their estimation of the Enthalpy Output they considered the reduction in the foam volume as it was a loss of full liquid water by evaporation.


    (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9K1Hvw434

    (2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBAIIZU6Oj8

    Am I aware that the 1st blue arrow is at a time when the tube is mostly full of foam. Yes

    OK, this is enough to explain in a ordinary way any claimed excess heat in the "1992 boil off" experiment.


    The explanation is straight. This is a line extracted from page 16 of the simplicity paper:


    In Vapour, 102,500J/600s 171W


    This is the greatest term in the heat balance which gives an excess heat of about 4 times the input power.


    It contains two data. Let's leave aside the boiling time at the denominator, it doesn't matter. The numerator was calculated in this other line:


    In Vapour (2.5 Moles × 41KJ/Mole) = 102,500J


    F&P multiplied two numbers. The second is correct (apart the K symbol which should have been in lowercase), and represents the latent heat of vaporization of heavy water (1). The second is the estimate made by F&P of the moles of water evaporated in the final boil off phase, that is the period marked with blue arrows in the video published by Krivit. But 2.5 Moles correspond to half the entire content of a cell at the beginning of the experiment, when it is full liquid!


    However, in the final boil off phase, when F&P calculated the Output Enthalpy due to vaporization, the water mass in each cell was much lower, maybe 20, 10, 5% of the figure considered by F&P, who knows? In any case they made an enormous mistake. In short: in calculating the excess heat of their "1992 boil-off" experiment, F&P confused liquid for foam!


    This is the main and definitive error!


    (1) https://www.engineeringtoolbox…ic-properties-d_2003.html

    I do rather like the modified ATER explanation (one of four, and quite different from ascoli's concerns)

    You are completely out of track. Please, forget for a while all these absurd explanations, such as ATER, CCS, and the like. You are introducing a lot of unnecessary complications. You go nowhere in this way.


    Please, follow me in the foam argument. Let's proceed bit by bit as you did propose (1).


    1 - Did you read the description of the foaming behavior inside the cells written by Robert Horst (2)?


    2 – Do you agree with this description?


    3 – Are you aware that when the blue arrow appear on top of each cell in the "1992 boil-off" video (3) the fluid in the cell is mostly foam and not liquid?


    (1) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (2) RE: FP's experiments discussion

    (3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBAIIZU6Oj8

    For example: how high does that oh so important asymptote on voltage go? - it must be known, from the design of the CC source.

    The maximum voltage is 100 V, but you don't find this value in the "Simplicity paper", unless you assume that it coincides with the maximum of the voltage scale on the left of Figs.6A-D.


    Instead, this value was explicitly indicated in the "Heat After Death" paper, presented at ICCF4 the subsequent year (1): "We have then adopted the procedure of allowing the cells to boil to dryness. For these conditions the galvanostats are driven to the rail voltage (100 V) but the cell current is reduced to zero."


    Anyway, it seems to me that you did one more time fall in the trap of the never ending straw man arguments. You are wasting your time. Let me suggest you to first finish the examination of the excess heat claim (a) of the simplicity paper. I fear you probably have not well understood the foam issue and its impact on the energy balance of the "1992 boil-off experiment".


    (1) https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/PonsSheatafterd.pdf

    I am happy to take Jed's calculation here. We can refer to the original should there be questions.

    I prefer the inverse: the "Simplicity Paper" (1) is the reference. JR paper (2) is just useful to clarify some aspects of the original F&P paper.


    Page 16 is the core of the paper, because it contains the formulas and calculations by which F&P justify the claims anticipated in the summary ("high rates of specific excess enthalpy generation (> 1kWcm-3) at temperatures close to (or at) the boiling point of the electrolyte solution") and in the conclusion ("We note that excess rate of energy production is about four times that of the enthalpy input even").


    Therefore, page 16 is the essence of the "simplicity paper", but it is also the sloppiest part as you have seen by looking more carefully at it. Their calculation are inaccurate, not well explained (even JR made a better job in his 2020 paper) and contains incredible errors as the J unit in the first formula (it remained unchanged also in the peer reviewed article on PLA (3))!


    Quote

    The big assumption here is that 50% of the liquid boils off in 10 minutes. The issues about "when the cell was dry" affect that similarly. So, if the cell dry endpoint is in fact later - even by 30 minutes let alone 3 hours - this energy balance fails.

    Exactly, this is the biggest assumption because it affects the biggest term in the excess heat balance, that is the 171 W lost in vapor. In this case there are big issues both for the mass of liquid boiled off and for the duration of boiling.


    Let's start from the latter. F&P assumed a duration of 600 seconds, they don't specified to which of the 4 cells they are referring to, or if 600 seconds is an average value. At page 13 they wrote: " For the second value of the pressure, 0.97 bars, the cell would have become half empty 11 minutes before dryness, as observed from the video recordings (see the next section) and this in turn requires a period of intense boiling during the last 11 minutes." In this case, the 11 minutes comes from a numerical simulation, but they say this period coincides with the boil-off duration observed in the video. A 10% error, not a big one, it's negligible with respect to the others we will see.


    Anyway, this phrase confirms that F&P derived the boil-off period from the video recording, and the video published by Krivit in 2009 contains the blue arrows which mark the beginning and the end points of the boil-off period for each cell. The vertical position of these arrows and the time span between then determine the rate of lowering of the level inside the cell. From that video it comes out that the lowering time is comprised between 20 and 35 minutes, as explained in this old comment (4a) and the related jpeg (4b), a period two to three times and half longer than the 600 seconds considered in the calculation.


    But this is not yet the biggest problem for the evaporative term of the heat balance. The biggest problem is about the evaporated mass not the time. If you look carefully at the video you will see that the lowering white column inside the cell is not made by liquid water, but instead by mostly foam. This description (5) in native English describes much better than my words the foaming nature of the content inside the cells during the so called boil-off period. Therefore the liquid mass which actually evaporates during the boil-off period is much smaller that the quantity calculated by F&P, who assumed that 2.5 Moles of water evaporated in a 600 seconds. This molar quantity corresponds to half of the volume filled with full liquid, not by mostly foam! So the calculation of the Enthalpy Output in Vapor at page 16 of the Simplicity Paper is totally inconsistent.


    Your remarks about the Enthalpy Input in the cells are also correct. The voltage has not been made explicit, we don't know to which cell it refers, or if it is just an average of the four. Consider also that they recorded a voltage value every 300 seconds, so at best the 75 V comes from the average of three values.


    Anyway the big, big problem is the foam. Notwithstanding they had the possibility "to repeatedly reverse and run forward the video recordings at any stage of operation, [so that] it also becomes possible to make reasonably accurate estimates of the cell contents" they omitted to consider that the lowering column inside the cell during the boil-off period was mostly foam.


    So, due to large number of issues contained on page 16, I suggest to first concentrate ourselves on the calculation of the Enthalpy Output in Vapor, and then examine the issues about the Enthalpy Input.


    (1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf

    (2) https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJreviewofth.pdf

    (3) http://coldfusioncommunity.net…n-Pons-PLA-Simplicity.pdf

    (4a) RE: FP's experiments discussion

    (4b) https://imgur.com/TLfr1jg

    (5) RE: FP's experiments discussion

    I am happy we have finished (b). It does not much alter my view - since I never viewed that evidence as clear. But it is good to have this more definite evidence of how it is not consistent.


    Excess rate of 4 times??? I did not think they were claiming COP=4, but I actually cannot remember without reading the paper again.

    At page 19 of the F&P's simplicity paper (1) you can read: "We note that excess rate of energy production is about four times that of the enthalpy input even for this highly inefficient system; the specific excess rates are broadly speaking in line with those achieved in fast breeder reactors." [underline added]


    This figures emerges from the calculation at page 16. F&P calculated a total enthalpy output of 182 W (=11+171) obtained with an enthalpy input of just 37.5 W, so they claimed an excess heat of 144.5 W (=182-37.5), which is 3.85 times (=144.5/37.5) greater than the energy input, that is "about four times" as they wrote in the conclusion. Actually, COP would even be greater than 4, because it is calculated by dividing the output by the input, so it would have been, according to F&P's calculation, equal to 4.85.


    You can find a better explanation of the above F&P's calculation in a more recent paper of JR titled "Review of the calorimetry of Fleischmann and Pons" (2), starting on page 15.


    Have a good reading.


    (1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf

    (2) https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJreviewofth.pdf

    Jed here has not got a leg to stand on in trying to justify the discrepancy between the video evidence and what is claimed.


    I look forward to his looking carefully at the evidence (it is admittedly a tedious process) and then either agreeing with you and me, or coming up with some better defence of his position than "they were experts who therefore know more than you do".

    Ok, we got his answer (1).


    Now let's go back to us.


    We were talking (2) about the 2 conclusions contained at page 19 of the Simplicity Paper (3):

    (a) – an excess rate of about four times, and

    (b) – the ability of the cells to remain at high temperature for prolonged periods of time.


    For now, I've only illustrated to you the discrepancy relating to the second conclusion (b). Do you have any other objection or curiosity about it, or can we continue examining the first conclusion (a)?


    (1) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (2) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    (3) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf

    They checked for cell dryness by looking at the cell. Anyone can see the instant of dryness; the steam stops coming out.

    Who looked at the cell during the "1992 boil off experiment"? The "Simplicity Paper"(1) reports that the authors only watched the lab video, not that they looked at the cell. Please, read the following excerpts [underlines added]:


    - In the abstract: "This has led to a particularly simple method of deriving the rate of excess enthalpy production based on measuring the times required to boil the cells to dryness, this process being followed by using time-lapse video recordings."


    - at page 13: "For the second value of the pressure, 0.97 bars, the cell would have become half empty 11 minutes before dryness, as observed from the video recordings (see the next section) and this in turn requires a period of intense boiling during the last 11 minutes."


    - at page 14: "It is therefore necessary to develop independent means of monitoring the progressive evaporation/boiling of the D2O. The simplest procedure is to make time-lapse video recordings of the operation of the cells"


    - and at the same page 14: "As it is possible to repeatedly reverse and run forward the video recordings at any stage of operation, it also becomes possible to make reasonably accurate estimates of the cell contents. We have chosen to time the evaporation/boiling of the last half of the D2O in cells of this type and this allows us to make particularly simple thermal balances for the operation in the region of the boiling point."


    So F&P just looked at the lab video to estimate the instant of dryness, not at the cells. They had the entire time-lapse video (1 shot every minute) available, which probably lasted 5 to 6 hours. They, or their collaborators at IMRA France, extracted at least 2 shorter versions (the ones that were later published by Krivit and Rothwell) containing the most critical segments before and around the cell dryness. Here is a synopsis of the position of these segments (2). These 2 videos are still available for us, so we can judge if F&P have correctly estimated the instant of dryness in Fig.8.


    Therefore, I ask you again: is the position of the vertical arrow marked with "Cell dry" in Fig.8 of the Simplicity Paper correct?


    (1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf

    (2) RE: FP's experiments discussion

    I meant real problems, and more accurately, relevant problems, not imaginary, as the one you have so insistently attempted to create from your particular interpretation of published results.

    As for relevancy, the published results I refers to come from the same authors, the same cell and the same bubbling context which appear on the front cover of the comic book "Discover Cold Fusion" that you had recommended to me to get a better understanding of the field (1).


    As for the reality of my particular interpretation, well, you have just to use your scientific knowledge to demonstrate it is imaginary.


    (1) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?