Posts by Bob

    We just can not have that anymore from you. I suggest you move on permanently as you suggest.


    I am sorry to hear that from you. I would truly be interested why and exactly what is untrue that "We just cannot have that anymore from you" is, even if in private email discussion.


    Personal? There are hundreds, possibly thousands of posts on this forum that are extremely personal. Are or have my posts been gratuitous or insulting? If something is true two times, it is true on the 10th time.


    I can be wrong and will acknowledge it when realized or shown factually. I am no martyr, but I am no sheep either. I find it extremely interesting that a permanent ban is threatened over such a relative infrequent subject that you admit has a valid foundation in comparison to the thousands of repetitive, personally insulting and factless posts made by others here. Permanent ban? This must truly be a fragile subject? Quite interesting and sad.


    My activity here has reduced dramatically over the past months and almost certainly will continue to fade as this site seems to slide into selective censorship and less relevance. While the mods have the technical ability to remove my login, I will not be forced into silence by political sequester. I guess it is a good thing I do not live in North Korea..... I would probably have been shot by an anti-aircraft gun by now. (Or would that be a perma-ban gun?) :thumbup:

    I would point out that what IH supports is a particular business model involving ownership and control of as much LENR IP as possible. That is fine from an investment point of view, it's what capitalism is all about, but I'm not sure that a monopoly or semi monopoly model is a good route for something as important as CF. So I am not an IH fan simply for social reasons. As for Stockholm, I have said many times that i didn't see anything worth reporting in detail, it was a demo pure and simple, which is not what I was expecting- I had hoped to see more. But the videos saw it all so I became redundant as an expositor.

    Thank you for your response.


    While I may not agree I can respect your opinion in regards to IH's capitalistic leanings. At least that is now an honest and valid opinion and certainly honorable to debate.


    It seemed to me (and I do mean my opinion) was that Rossi's flagrant and proven fraud/lies/malfeasance was out weighed by some major IH evil in you eyes. It seemed the old "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic was involved. I do not think that a good scale. If Rossi is a fraud and liar, he should be called out regardless. Supporting Rossi because he is against IH does not further conviction against IH. I would say it damages it. You do show that support for Rossi and the shade at IH...... even if inadvertently..... something to consider.

    Does fully report only mean to condemn Rossi???


    Nobody can comment on a trick cabinet show unless the master tells him the trick...


    Time will tell the truth and it should not be our concern whether AR has a product or not.


    No, fully report does not mean condemn Rossi nor support Rossi. It means simply to report the facts as one should with any observation. If it supports Rossi, then report it ... if it does not support Rossin report it.... as a scientist should with any report. A small sampling such as:


    Equipment used : The equipment seemed to be of sufficient type and sensitivity to measure the data recorded. (Or the reverse, no it was not)


    Methodology : The test protocol was planned and followed so that it likely would provide actual and dependable data. (or the reverse, no it was not)


    Calibration : Calibration was conducted to offset artifact and the results compared to expected and tested values, as is standard in most experiments. (or the reverse, not is was not)


    Independent evaluation / observation : The test was conducted via independent parties or observed/inspected by independent parties to assist in detecting oversight or missed artifacts. (or the reverse, no it was not)


    Peer review of data provided : Being experienced in the field, my peer review of the provided data seemed to be logical, follow test protocol and indeed supports the hypothesis of the test and that the test successfully demonstrated a positive result (or the reverse, the data, test and methodology was completely insufficient to support the claims of the hypothesis and should be considered null and void)


    This is basic science, not unreasonable. Especially when there is considerable hype being made BY the testor (Rossi and suppporters) that the demo was not only valid but showed a novel and completely new source of energy. Of which proof should be relatively easy to show.


    I have some knowledge of magic but am not a complete expert. However, I can watch a magic show and tell you how much of it is done. When I see something completely novel, it will indeed raise my interest and curiosity. I would want to discuss it eagerly.


    A.S. evidently has much knowledge of experimentation and measurement. He should be able to watch a test and conclude it's likely validity. If he feels the test was of sufficient aptitude, it should deserve much discussion and debate. If it was a bust, he would know it.


    Why should we care? This forum was ripe with people stating the demo was a success. Having a Rossi supporter state it was not, would bring some reality to the drama. To not clarify or report, only continues and support the deception, or at least the acceptance of poor practice.


    Rossi has already frauded 11.5 MILLION dollars that could have went to valid researchers such as Bob Higgins. This is why we should care. Also, when people start turning a blind eye to crime and immoral behavior, we all lose at some point in the future! Not condemning fraud / malfeasance is a form of support!

    Bob should speak for himself... perhaps he cannot read

    I know a lot more.


    Indeed? Perhaps you could educate me on what is "known". I have seen only a manipulated chart, some references to dancing gamma girls, claims of visiting experts who evidently do not feel the data is significant yet for them "to come out" and some reactor photos. All of which Rossi has done in the past several times as well. Does this make Rossi legit? I very well could have missed published information, in that case perhaps you can share the details. If Shane and yourself know more, but cannot share it or it is from only "RG says", then you are playing the role of Lewan, like it or not.


    Saying " I know more" means little.


    "perhaps he cannot read".... Really RB? Falling into the same defense that Rossi supporters can only use.... Insult the opponent since no positive factual defense can be presented?


    So do I, and his fixation on Alan S, has been mentioned, and warned about before. Bob is one of our more eloquent, and read members, with a big following. However, that does not exempt him from being a gentleman, and giving up the campaign when he has already made his opinion well known many times over.


    Hopefully this is the last time.


    Shane,

    I am sorry to say I am quite disappointed. You seem to have always been a reasonable and open minded person. Yet now, something is forcing you into a corner to protect someone that needs no protection.


    Fixation? Kevmo, Ascoli, A.A. and others have made literally hundreds of posts against designated people. Much of which is down right personally insulting. I have made probably no more than 5 posts actually calling out A.S. on his failure / refusal to report on the Stockholm event. While the others make adhoc accusations, "my fixation" is based upon solid foundation.


    1) A.S. is a leading mod here, he is a leading researcher, he is making significant claims. This puts him in a category that elevates more scrutiny. Especially when one makes claims of active CF, continually gives the thumbs up to a known and proven fraudster and then throws shade on a known and proven CF entity (IH) that supports true researchers. I do not and will not back off from that stance. I ask you to respond why I should.


    2) A.S. himself, promised before attending the demo to fully report. People sent him money to help relieve his expenses. (No he did not ask for, but did use the funds) After promising to fully report, he DOES have a responsibility to report as such, if not for the integrity of CF research at least to honor the funds he did spend. He can do this, but it is clear why he does not. It would put Rossi in a damning light. He will not criticize Rossi. (and yet he throws shade on IH) Please explain why I should back down on this? Ascoli and others continually harass Rothwell with minutia quotes and ask that he prove or respond. Yet no wrist slapping there! Yet A.S. is to be protected and factual posts moved to clearance? Yes, I would ask for a logical statement of why the difference.


    3) While my very, very few posts (relatively speaking) may have been to the point and clearly stating what I believe the deficit is, I am confident in that I have not been gratuitously insulting nor demeaning. A.A. and his hundreds of "babbler" comments and yes, from "the other side" D.W. often posts the spiked jab, do not get wrist slapped. Why? It appears simply because of who the remarks are pointed to.


    So here is my question to you, a "forum friend" that has long known my posts and should know my intentions by now......


    Is truth to be squelched or should it speak for itself? If truth is to be censored here on this forum, then I will move on permanently. I have no desire to live on Planet Rossi such as at ECW. Is this forum to become "Planet Atom Ecology"? Yes, Ackland banned me from ECW for the very same reason... not insulting nor baseless posts, but posts with supporting evidence that was critical of Rossi and could not be offset. It appears the same law is being applied here to A.S.


    If you truly believe what I have posted is not truth, then please educate me, with specifics where I have errored. I will certainly apologize and sustain from that line of thinking.


    If what I have said is basically true and A.S. keeps giving Rossi "the thumbs up", making significant experimental claims AND throwing shade at IH, (all related) then please explain in detail why I should be censored. (And A.A., Ascoli, Kevmo, DW and others not) Why I should "keep my mouth shut" on the subject.


    I was once a Rossi "supporter" but it became clear he was a fraud. Unlike a few here, I publicly recognized this and am not afraid to state it. I will always call it like I see the facts pointing. It does not matter if the person is Rossi or A.S. I will call it as I see the facts...... in a non-insulting and gratuitous way. Such as RB's "perhaps he cannot read" statement.


    Thank you for your honest consideration in this.

    Sincerely

    Bob

    Never confuse ardent support with failure to condemn. For now I am content to watch and wait.

    I am sorry Alan, but you and IHFB are one and alike. A trait that for some reason is high on my pet peeve list... hypocrisy.


    IHFB says he is unbiased and you state "failure to condemn" is not support. IHFB's and your posts clearly state otherwise and this is simply BS.


    It is true you NEVER condemn Rossi. Not for lying about customers, "salting" test samples" and much worse over 11 years of fraud. No you do not condemn or hold him responsible for anything, even when proven seriously wrong. Yet you often throw "shade" on IH and NEVER say anything POSITIVE about them even though they are supporting TRUE researchers with serious funding. These true researchers are happy with IH. Only crooks like Rossi, who when caught, call them snakes and clowns.


    NO, your posts clearly state you support Rossi and condemn IH. This is fine, just admit it. Do not be like IHFB and be hypocritical. Man up to your true position. Most people can respect a person if they are upfront and engage with integrity. However, the "Unbiased One" and now "The one who does not condemn" are simply being hypocritical and statements otherwise are complete BS, as proven by their own posts.


    Hiding under the "failure to condemn" when refusing to give an assessment of a clearly sham demo, when promising a detailed report prior to attending clearly shows that you cannot be trusted to give unbiased or complete information. This damages your credibility, event to the extent of the "Atom Ecology" drama. This is most unfortunate.


    No you owe me nothing, but you do owe yourself better.


    So sad but this is true and has been for a long t..... all Rossi supporters cannot defend Rossi on his merit, his work, his statements or anything as such. So they therefore simply attack and try to discredit Rossi's opponents. They cannot defend Rossi by any working product, positive data, demos, customers etc. So they resort to arguing heat exchangers, missing windows, pages on "possible backout offers", conspiracy theories and worse. Not one iota of actual positive proof can be made, so they attack others.


    I am afraid this same pattern has started with the Atom Ecology drama. Big claims, no data. Secret people visiting, yet almost a year later no revelation. Principal party lashing out with unprofessional vigor. We are coming up to the 1 year anniversary and yet nothing more is known than day one. Not promising, unfortunate.


    By the way..... somethings CLEARLY SHOULD be condemned. You seem to have to problem casting shade on IH for unknown and unproven allegations yet on absolutely proven and known fraud from Rossi, not a word. That by default is support and not confusing at all!

    It's the same mentality as those who oppose at every step widespread use of autonomous vehicle technology. They do so in the name of safety. In reality, they are responsible for the loss of thousands of lives and they have blood on their hands.

    More of the cultist BS...


    Yes, we on this obscure forum are keeping the eCat from being the invention of the century that will save the world from green house gases. :/


    It reality, IF Rossi had a working eCat, only HE Is to blame. It would be simple and quite easy to start the "REAL" commercialization of such a world changing technology. Yet what do we see? One of the most outlandish pieces of BS video ever!


    And YET, the "unbiased one" points the finger to the "unblievers"! :whistling: Why does not IHFANBOY hold Rossi accountable? Rossi lies, misdirects and continues to deceive his loyal followers with implausible and unrealistic excuses. AND HAS DONE SO for 11 YEARS! Yet, "the unbiased one" never holds his idol accountable. Never calls for Rossi to stop the dog and pony shows and do something actually demonstrable. IHFB will spend pages arguing missing window panes (even though the heat exchanger was incapable of dispelling the heat), he will forget that Rossi originally said the roof vent, then an industrial process and then finally an imaginary heat exchanger. Yet the "unbiased one" never calls out Rossi on his lies or misdirections. (Yet his multiple accusations of IH / Murrya being a dastardly deceiver)


    And I could go on..... but why? Unlike AA, Sam12 and a few others...who openly admit they are die hard supporters (or possibly delusional in AA's case) IHFB is simply not honest. His posts shout out his bias even though he claims not to be! It is clear he is capable of understanding the facts, but simply chooses not to


    Always defending Rossi while passing the blame to others is the crutch of his hypocrisy. Unbiased my @$$. He does not hold Rossi to one iota of the standard he keeps pointing to others with! <X

    LENR and Dietary Supplements?!!!!!


    Talk about a con!

    1) Elemental level material us the same if pure. Gold is gold no matter what. If other minerals are present, then it is a alloy or blend. "LENR" would have nothing to do woth it. This from "real" scientist?


    2) A finding of the century and it is used for Dietary Supplenents?! Wow, what a huge market there!


    3) Hmmm... dietary supplements are exempt from government /FDA testing if "natural" content. Well... enough said


    4) To confirm that these LENR elements actually are different than "natural" elements, controlled medical studies would have to be conducted. These take a long time. Of course none has been done, so what authority does these claims draw from?


    This is total nonsense that even makes Rossi look plausible in comparison.


    WOW! Truly amazing. ☹

    Thanks.

    Nice work.

    IHFB will not accede to this strong evidence.


    He will go for days about an imagined missing pane of glass to great extent because he thinks it supports Rossi.


    Yet when THH post factual math showing the Rossi provided exchanger parameters could not dissipate the heat, IHFB ignored that but still pursued the missing pane.


    He will not answer about your video, or if he does, it "will seem to him" that Rossi's steam is adequate. Just like he propsed the silly claim the pumps were sufficient, regardless of the evidence that 18 were shut down.


    He is as biased as AA is, but hypocritical in that he states he only looks at the facts. Hah! Only if his percieved facts support Rossi.


    It is OK for Rossi to cheat and lie. It is OK to present unlikely scenarios to support Rossi. But IH is evil, you must have black and white proof for them and you cannot excuse them for anything.


    I am still waiting on him to respond on the number of known Rossi lies to known IH lies and the serious nature of the lies.


    He will not because he cannot. Yet ge still "seems to think IH is the devil in this story"


    Poor,poor Boeing engineer. Those evil IH dudes! 😖

    As was IH back to him, and even to Boeing! Sending a reactor to Boeing without disclosing that to Rossi? Not providing Boeing with the correct fuel mix? Without disclosing to Boeing that it wasn't the correct fuel mix? As the poor Boeing engineer spent a good amount of his personal time testing it?

    Again... absolute case in point of pure hypocrisy.


    1) IH owned the reactors and Rossi was an IH employee. They did not need his approval. This is not deception in anyway. Why would it be deception?


    However Rossi... fake engineer, fake customer, fake invoices, fake.... list goes on...to your own employer, THAT is deception.


    2) Not providing correct fuel mix. Your speculation and contrary to IH interest. Makes no sense. However Rossi's deceit / fraud is proven without doubt. Yet your speculation fuels your hypocrisy.


    3) Poor Engineer? You are truly a case. Boeing was paid, and probably handsomely. There would have been no subterfuge to Boeing on IH part regardless of what they sent. They paid for it. Yet, since the test did not support Rossi, then your view is that IH MUST have been deceitful. Truly amazing.


    So here is iHFB view. Rossi can cheat, lie, defraud and con without impunity because it is a "dog eat dog" business world. IH is despicable without any fact or proof. Simply because if IH is not evil, then Rossi must be. The alternative is unthinkable!


    Again, care to count the KNOWN AND FACTUAL lies of Rossi compared to IH?


    Zero factual to IH but Rossi proven to lie about everything. But to the "unbiased one", Rossi's lies do not count. Made up speculation on IH far out weigh known fact against Rossi.


    Simply admit it, your posts confirm it.X/

    IHFB stated "All of the people that were paraded through the factory, and none of the lawyers thought to ask the most obvious questions of all regarding the heat exchanger?"


    Yes I know how litigation works, just like I know hypocritical statements as well.


    So the last time you were in a Walmart, could you tell me where the main power panel was? Probably not, since this is something you would not normally be looking for.


    So a visitor goes to Doral with NO inclination or reason to think something important is in a small upstairs, non-accessible balcony. A year later...


    IH Lawyer - Did you see a heat exchanger in the balcony?

    Visitor - No, I never looked.

    IH Lawyer - Did you hear any heat exchanger?

    Visitor - I do not know what one sounds like.

    IH Lawyer - It would be very loud.

    Visitor - I do not remember hearing that.


    Rossi Lawyer - If you never looked in the balcony, you cannot then say with certainty there was no exchanger?


    Visitor - No I cannot.


    Rossi Lawyer - You did not hear anything or you do not remember? Does not matter, Rossi turned off the exchanger for the brief time you were there so conversations would be easier!


    (Remember, Rossie lied about many other things as well, this would not be surprising)


    So the question might have been asked, but simply was not indicative to the record since the visitor (or IH) had no reason to notice anything in the balacony in the first place at that time. Again they are not clairvoyant.


    So I have little doubt that if the court record stated that a visitor did not see anything, that you would state they did not because they were not looking and it proved nothing.


    Just like the window panes comment " you have pictures for the whole time?" Implying that would be needed.


    When are you going to start requiring Rossi to put up 1/10 the facts you require of IH? You won't of course.


    Will we hear you state Rossi was intentionally misleading people and lying about the heat situation? He originally said roof vent, then production absorbtion, then finally exchanger!


    You called out IH / Murray repetively on the word "was" vs "is" in the pipe size question and stated repetively that Murray WAS misleading people. What do you say about Rossi versus IH regarding overall truthfulness? Who is KNOWN to have told more lies?


    I say there is no comparison. Rossi lied about almost every facet of the eCat story and IH has NOT been proven to lie about anything.


    Post facts otherwise or stop the "unbiased BS". I doubt you will answer the above question out right.

    No one of them were even asked [about the fans] [under oath]! And if they were, we don't have their responses! Such an important question, and nobody was asked under oath? All of the people that were paraded through the factory, and none of the lawyers thought to ask the most obvious questions of all regarding the heat exchanger?


    Doesn't add up to me. I suspect both Rossi and IH have withheld the responses from us, and that this issue was to be litigated during the trial.


    More of the usual IH Fanboy BS.. Unbiazed my @$$.


    So IH Fanboy, how are people supposed to comment or be questioned on a piece of equipment that was not even mentioned to exist until well AFTER the lawsuit and Rossi had dismantled everything!


    Rossi never mentioned a heat exchanger until almost a year after HE filed the lawsuit and this when Jed started stating that people would be cooked. Rossi first stated the heat went out a roof vent. Then when this was going to be completely dispelled, he finally "invented" the exchanger.


    So you expect IH to be clairvoyant and ask questions a year in advance during customer visits about an imaginary piece of equipment that was not even known about!

    Really? And then you use this oh so flimsy excuse to relieve Rossi?


    You made the statement that Murray was "misleading" people about the DN40 pipe size to no end. Pages of posts. You made it clear that IH was not honest in this.


    Yet, you stand by Rossi who is absolutely proven to lie about just about everything.


    So when IH makes a claim or disputes, you require "hard evidence". But to support Rossi, you easy accept "missing window panes" that no one else sees, scratches on the floor that no one else believes, and more. You have an ABSOLUTE double standard! IH has to have hard and proven evidence but you support Rossi on NOTHING but imaginary and made up clues.


    At least A.A. simply comes out and states what he really believes, even though he has zero evidence. You however, play the ultimate hypocrite. Saying you are unbiased with the facts, but in TRUTH, your double standards between IH and Rossi is sickening. The amount of KNOWN lies and falsehoods from Rossi is simply astounding. KNOWN falsehoods or lies from IH are zero. There ma;y be questions and doubts, but not KNOWN FACT.


    Yet you still, after all this time, after all the Rossi lies, brazenly bad demos, and continued misdirection, support him while trying to discredit IH! Simply amazing.

    Who misled people more and by what margin or level? Murray or Rossi? You have zero KNOWN FACT that Murray misled anyone. You SUSPECT he did about a pipe size, but do not know. What he said could be true. It could be someone else typed the "WAS" vs "IS" by mistake. It could simply be a mistake on Murray's part. Murray MAY have misled. It likely is a mis-understanding on OUR part. We do not KNOW.


    We do KNOW without any DOUBT about numerous LIES, FRAUD and DECEIT from Rossi. Yet you ignore those and concentrate on only THREE very unlikely and even erroneous facts.


    1) The pipe size : So what. It makes no real difference in the story unless it was DN40 which then proves the system did not work. We know know KNOW what size of pipe it is, so arguing this is moot.


    2) Missing window panes. Good lord, how many posts on this. THH proved mathematically that the heat exchanger as described by Rossi would not work anyway.

    But you do not care about that, those "missing window panes" were of utmost importance?


    3) Scratches on the floor "indicates" the heat exchanger was there! Give us all a break. See above and especially about people asking about it!


    HOW CAN SOMEONE ASK A QUESTION ABOUT SOMETHING THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF?


    To use one of your phrases "it seems to me, you expect IH people to be clairvoyant in these matters'.


    Just admit it, Ross put on a huge fraud at Doral and you know it.

    He himself left the 1MW plant in the dust. A device that worked for 350 days out of 400 with a COP of 80?!?!?!


    And a year later he is still attempting to garner customers? :rolleyes:


    Again, what irks me most about you is the absolute double standard you use with IH and Rossi. How about pushing the two or three Rossi supporters left here about the many, many issues with Rossi's legitimacy? I have never seen you request / require any accountability from Rossi while continually casting shade on IH.

    A true hypocrite concerning this matter.

    BTW I was banned on ECW for asking about the "certified for industrial use" certificate.

    According to some over there it is not allowed to publish such a certificate :/

    Not surprising. I too was banned, and note it was not for being obnoxious. It was for asking clear questions that clearly indicated Rossi to be a con.

    Some state you can post skeptical views on ECW, but that is true to only a limited extent. If you post a skeptical view that is not well founded or can be disputed, that post will stay. However if you make a few posts with a hard question that clearly shows (if unanswered) that Rossi is a con, you will be banned.


    I used to think Frank was simply wanting to keep a "positive" atmosphere. Indeed, some skeptics can become quite insulting. However, I now believe that Frank keeps up the show for one of two reasons. 1) He does not want to lose what money might be brought in by the website. He often posts requests to subscribe or send money in. 2) Like Lewan, he has supported Rossi for so long it would be very humiliating to change now. I believe several people might be of this persuasion.


    I guess a third option is that he actually believes. However, I doubt this. If one believes (such as Director) he will argue the case but not hide from the hard questions.

    Frank consciously attempts to hide the hard questions from his site and censor them. Censorship comes about WHEN the "censoring party" knows the truth WILL out them and cause them to be exposed. I have seen this situation in several areas.


    Look at A.A. He babbles incessantly, but he never provides facts, data or logic. He simply insults and tries to cover his baseless position by shifting the focus to insults on the questioner or by posting unsupported and fallible statements (i.e. HE KNOWS). Another example of one knowing that he has nothing to stand on. "If you cannot dazzle them with data, baffle them with bullshit". A.A. and Rossi both read from the same book.


    I respect M. McKubre. But I disagree with his recent position. "Wait and see" has already been done several times. Each time damage is done. At some point, one has to step up and state this is "BS". Yes, early on Rossi brought PR, which might have been good then. But now, with 7 years of actual proven fraud (read the court documents for goodness sake", this king of PR we can do without.


    I believe some parties simply have not paid close attention or do not know all the facts. I can understand a "Wait and see" position if one simply stepped into this drama recently. But when ones has followed in detail the past seven years, it becomes simply criminal! I once made a comment that the Lugano test was ran entirely by Rossi and Fulviani. Wytenbach (sp?) posted a quote from the Lugano report stating that Rossi had nothing to do with it. Thus he had reason to believe the Lugano test was independent. However, after that report, it came out that INDEED, Rossi ran the entire test and the professors only dropped in. We do not even know how often. Here is an example of how not knowing the details can make a big difference.


    And there is a LOT of details of this type.

    Rossi has never published a paper in a cold fusion journal or attended a conference. Most researchers hate him. I do not see how they could "weed" him out. Weed him out of where? He is not part of any cold fusion institution. "Police" him how? They have no influence whatever with the public. No one listens to them. They cannot even get a letter published in Wired magazine, never mind the New York Times or Scientific American. Most of them are, in fact, dead. Dead people have little or no influence on society, to paraphrase Mark Twain.


    ("Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.")

    I was referring to some of the main players here. A.S., R.G. and W.


    Bob G. has destroyed his credibilty as seemingly Lewan. It will be hard for them to recover.


    Most of the serious researchers do not post here or other public LENR forums.


    So I am assuming that a significant od public searches on the subject will land hete, ECW or a few others. ECW is a lost child, completely void of significant subjectivity. The site even states thst.


    This site does shine light on Rossi, but when the active posting researchers throw out the occssional thumbs up to him...... well, what can be said?


    I believe you are correct that most such as McKubre and others do not believe Rossi, but then they do not post that here either. Thus the AAs, Axils and RGs feed the believers, giving life to the Rossi fiasco.


    If it were not for ECW and this forum, I think the Rossi story would pass quickly.

    The SGS document is right on the Leonardo Website. I'm unsure how easily it can be found elsewhere.

    Indeed it is! Still selling the 1MW plants as well and no mention of the Skat Cat! Why?


    https://ecat.com/ecat-technology/ecat-certificate


    Please note this paragraph on the document, from Rossi's own website. :


    "This certificate relates soley to the above identified prototype machine within the limits of the request for voluntary testing of essential health and safety requirements relevant to Annex I of Directive 2006/42/EC. The certificate does not constitute a "product certification" and cannot, in any way, be used for commercial purposes and / or advertising by the company on whose behalf the certificate was issued."


    Here is a link to Annex I Directive 200642/EC


    https://osha.europa.eu/en/legi…iament-and-of-the-council


    So if Rossi is claiming the SGS cert is his "industrial certification" he is clearly deluded or simply lying.


    1) He is selling in the US and the directive is not an approved US standard.

    2) The SGS document itself clearly states that it cannot be used fro production nor ADVERTISING!. So Rossi is breaking the document agreement here already!

    3) The SGS document to directive 2006/42/EC is only for general safety of external controls. It does not apply any heating process, nuclear or not. No radiation monitoring included in this.


    As usual, Rossi promotes fantasy. However, his acolytes, instead of reading and admitting to the facts, will conjure excuses and twist interpretation to cover their chosen leaders damning faults.


    Read the links if you doubt the above. Still want to hitch your wagon to Rossi's horse? Sure is giving you a lot of credibility. :/


    The reason I seem so adamate on this is that I really want to see "Cold Fusion" succeed. Cold fusion has been given enough of a black eye by main stream science (in some cases) and news media following that lead. The Cold Fusion community needs to police itself and weed out the cons and scams. Those in the most visible and active positions need to be vocal on this in my opinion. They need to carry the yoke of being above reproach and professional. No "dancing" in science. When they instead refuse to critique or in the case on this forum, out and out support Rossi, it only further damages the field. Mainstream will tie all of Cold Fusion in with Rossi. Do you really want your legacy tied with his?


    I sure as hell would not. It is absolutely without question that Rossi is a lying fraud and con. Has been his seemingly entire career. Truly remarkable that some still ignore the prodigious amounts of fact to cling to the minute hope that he chanced across the scientific discovery of the century. :?:

    For newbies and those with faulty memories, the infamous SGS certificate was endlessly dissected and analyzed and was clearly shown to be utterly meaningless.

    Thanks Barty for posting the question.


    Yes, as IO states, the SGS is NOT a certification. It clearly states and had wording within the document that it cannot be used for anytype of public or industrial application. I do not have the link at hand, but the actual document is available and it is definitely NOT a cettfication. Whether the skat cat is "covered" by it is moot. The SGS document is not in anyway an operational certification. (Besides, it only covered external electrical enclosures and switchrs)


    So if Rossi is touting the SGS cert, it is most definitely a provable lie. No surprise. But then A.A., A.S and R.G. do not care and still support? 🤔

    Well, here we have it. A public add for an eCat! Posted on ECW.




    Note that it states "Certified for industrial use". Here is an opportunity to test Rossi's

    actual truthfulness. He is stating he is "certified" which would have to come from a

    regulation agency or testing lab such as UL.


    Now surely this will not be confidential! What "IP" could be lost by showing his "certification"?

    None.


    Since I have been banned from ECW, can someone post to Frank and ask him to post

    the "industrial certification". This would be good advertisement! It would be good PR!

    There is no drawback from it!


    However, this will not happen because there is no certification. What would it be certified to?

    A hot water heater? Not with a novel, nuclear heat source!. Exactly what "certification" is

    Rossi talking about. There is NO "industrial" certification. You get certified to an established

    standard set forth by ASTME, UL, CE, SAE, etc. etc. Each of these are particular standards setting

    forth testing procedures, required parameters etc. Simply another of Rossi's crazy flags such

    as "Sigma 5". Remember when he was stating he could not go into production until Sigma 5 was

    reached! Well, he should be able to show his "Sigma 5" certificate as well!


    What about the "bad demo on purpose" theory to "stay under the radar" and

    avoid competition? Sure! What is the logical thing to do..... put out a public AD!

    That is "staying under the radar". Also put in that ad, the link to see the Skcat cat in

    action! Oh boy!


    I would ask A.A. if he wants to wager if an actual "industrial certification" will ever be

    produced. A.A. do you want to bet $10? No you will make some lame excuse babblings why

    Rossi does not need certifications, even though Rossi states he has one!


    A.S. perhaps you, being an established Rossi supporter, could has him for a copy of these certifications to

    show on this forum, to provide positive proof of his credibility of his SKat Cat? Surely he would not

    deny a faithful some information in support and to further his sales?


    Edit... And Engineer 48 has stated he has customers waiting! Rossi turned him down before.

    A.A..... here is a Rossi fan and supporter with customers. Want to bet that Engineer will NOT be

    posting that any of his customers have purchased a unit! (Or purchased the heat) Will we hear

    anything about a customer from Engineer48 except some Rossi excuse?


    Alan Smith, I seem to remember you have been in personal contact with Engineer48. (in the past?)

    How about you contacting him and posting here what good news is going on with E48 customers! :)


    Yet, some here are still defending and in some cases, identifying their current work with Rossi!

    That is really a good way to gain credibility! :/

    Looks like you nailed it. The presentation was done right there at Leonardo Headquarters (Rossi's Miami Beach condo) according to Acland. LOLs. It is a small condo, so that is probably why the camera was trained only on the SK, or video throughout. For some reason I thought it was going to be done from the customers factory.


    Shane,.... it WAS done from the "customer's" factory! ;)

    Well January 2019 has came and went. I have refrained from posting for a long time.

    So where do we stand now?!. Ha....


    Adrian still babbles on by calling others babblers! He thought the Jan. demo "showed" several things. He said wait and see. Well we saw, but he will continue his unadulterated garbage. I agree the demo showed things, but not what he means.

    It showed an absolutely horrid presentation of what WOULD BE (if real) the invention of the century. It continued to show how the true nature of Rossi. (and alas, many of his fans) Even "Director" was disgusted. (Although he STILL believes the eCat works! Why? Shake my head) The "intentional horrible demo" theory is so stupid. Talk about lowering one's logic to cover up an indefensible situation! Quite sad.


    I did not see a definitive from Sam12, but assume he is still on the Rossi band wagon, even though he stated for a long time, this demo would make or break it. (Or was it April 1? What would the difference be?)


    "Atom Ecology"? It is now almost a year since the big announcement of "lovely dancing gammas". No public corroboration nor no real data.

    R. G. has now came out in support of this last Rossi demo and stated " I believe he provided more than sufficient detail for one 'skilled in the art' to recreate his SK 'plasma discharge' reactor design. " This is absurd and I have lost what little confidence in R.G I might have had before. If he cannot see Rossi for what he is, Rossi's data (or lack of) for what it IS NOT, chooses to ignore the reams of sworn depositions proving Rossi a liar, cheat and charlatan (not to mention inept at math and research) and a whole host of other damning evidence, his judgement as Jed mentions, is damaged. How can one trust it? If he thinks this last demo was of ANY VALUE, he is most mistaken.

    "Skilled in the Arts" my ass!

    I see a very similar pattern developing with R.G. as with Rossi.... big claims, never supported, , avoiding standard publishing/scientific protocols/ papers/ peer review, always happening soon, yet no public endorsements or support. He does have important "visitors"? Yes, and Rossi was always having Aerospace Engineers and others consult with him as well. But they too evidently,"would not come out of the closet". Yet, we did see that Rossi's chief engineer turned out to be James Bass, an out of work PC technician. Who are these visitors, after one year, still not willing to come forth? Very questionable.


    I am most disappointed in Alan Smith, but so be it. He too, refuses to acknowledge Rossi's atrocities and continues to throw the occasional thumbs up to him. Truly extraordinary from someone who is clearly smart and experienced. He was quick to throw shade at Johnny 5 for FAR, FAR, FAR less than what Rossi has done.

    If Alan cannot state this last demo was a real black eye to LENR, then he will not critique ANYONE who is in his "European Circle" evidently. My confidence that Alan will call a spade a spade, when it comes to certain circles is now gone. I certainly doubt A.S. would ever critique R.G. This last demo needs to be castigated by the LENR community leaders. Rossi is giving a horrible black eye to it. R.G. and A.S. supporting Rossi is doing nothing but damaging themselves and the field. Just like A.A., you cannot admit it, even it you know it.


    Who am I to say...... ? I am not making posts about the fossil fuel age being over. That it will only be months and now a year later nothing. I am not stating that "reputable parties are reviewing our work", yet not a peep from any of them. I am making no claims as such. I can however, see a sham, a charlatan, a con artist. I have had many years of industrial engineering, research, certifications (UL and UE), business mergers, management and finance. I have lived many years in the real world and most here have as well. The vast majority here, who have experience and a clear mind agree.... Rossi is a con. Therefore, when people support one as such, their judgement is in dire question. (Perhaps they have not taken time to really investigate, but then they should not be casting support!)


    Will Frank Ackland state where he traveled too? Probably not, because it was probably to Rossi's condo. Frank is financially involved.

    Will Lewan ever do true journalism. No, he is hawking books.

    Will any customer come forth? No, just like Doral, there is no customer. Rossi lies and he lies all the time. Rossi states people want to be left alone. The Doral location was known for over a year and there were no crowds, no media circus, no protest marches! Rossi is simply making BS excuses. There are plenty of companies who would LOVE the attention of introducing truly "GREEN" and endless energy! This excuse is BS. It is simply his scam requires it to be secret.


    It is no wonder that the legitimate researchers do not take part in this blog. There is still too much a Rossi tarnish on it, Too bad, it would be nice to see some real research, real data, real events. No "dancing" involved! (Sorry Magic sound.... you do good work, I do not mean to include you! )


    Shane, I know relations are probably a bit extended. You for the most part call it as it is. However, I must assume you are limited to your full rebuttals on Rossi and on those who still support him, namely A.S., R.G. and perhaps Wyttenbach (sp?). If they truly have followed all the Rossi details, if they state their work is based on or supported by Rossi's work, then that is MOST troubling, as it is clear they are saddling up with a known liar, fraud and criminal scammer. Rossi has nothing, so anything based on his work is nothing as well.


    Well, I had my say!

    A.A. will still be babbling about babblers a year from now. Providing no evidence, no replies to factual questions, just diarrhea of the mouth.


    Rossi will move on to the next eCat since no customers want the SK version but are forcing him to the next revision! (Same as always before) Ha. He has no customers. He has no real working reactor. He is a con.


    And I fully expect, when/if I post next time in the distant future, I will see about as much advance with the "atom ecology" and "aluminum recycling" as I have seen posted in the past year. Nothing substantial.


    Perhaps I will be wrong. I hope I am. But the public data / facts are what they are. It does not look good.

    Bob,


    You have not said anything wrong, but when it comes to Alan and Stockholm, you have said enough. You have made your opinion known many times, that you are unhappy with his role there, and afterwards. Time to move on. We have plenty of other things to talk about.

    I have said nothing wrong but I am told to keep quiet. :|


    I have watched for 7+ years in detail the Rossi drama. I have seen people come an go. I have watched ECW become a protectorate where Rossi is protected because he cannot protect himself (by his own actions). Defiance against him is not tolerated. What direction is LENR Forum heading? What now needs silencing because of "words that are not wrong"?


    Yes, it probably is time for me to move on......but in a different way. :/

    Hopefully this is the last time we see Alan and Stockholm mentioned in the same breath. You made your point on this many times, and continuing to harp on it will only turn this into something personal. We have enough of that around here as is.

    Personal? Lets see...


    I have been called a troll several times above by W, when I most certainly am not. (I post my REAL name by the way!)


    I have been accused of spreading "fake news" by W when what I have stated is backed by fact and the "fake news" accuser is indeed wrong!


    It has been stated certain people would talk to my dog before they would me!


    My posts are not personally derogatory in that I do not call others "Babblers" every other sentence and deride them as Adrian does.


    I attempt to explain my points in a non-personal method by giving as clear thoughts as I can. Admittedly they are pointed, but not personal.

    I keep my posts pretty much free from derogatory wording.


    If I have said anything that is not factual or is completely illogical, then I am very willing and ready to listen to counsel instructing me point by point.

    If W simply espouses "Fake news", then I do not retaliate in derogatory language, but will stand my ground. I will listen to reason, when backed by fact and substance. So far, "it was a demo" is not.


    If there is anything I have said about Stockholm and Alan's promise of a detailed report that is not correct, then please address that. I will stand corrected. After all, do you think the "Stockhom Event" was a very convincing demo! It sure is being used as such by many, almost every day on JONP. Should this continue unabated?


    But to slap my wrist and not Adrian or others for far worse, makes me think this is becoming ECW, where if you do not fall in line, you get kicked off!

    I hope not. :thumbup: