Posts by THEDEBATEISUSELESS

    Dewey,


    I understand. I'm burnt out from years of following this saga with all the twists, turns, oddities, occasional bursts of excitement, let downs, and mysteries. The best thing for my emotional health and well being would be to leave this forum and not come back for a few months. If I have ever personally offended you are behaved in a way you consider inappropriate, I apologize. And I humbly accept you apology, although I'm not offended. I realize how emotional I must seem to you and others.

    Hey Dewey,


    The whole situation is a combination of tragic, tiresome, frustrating, and, I guess, hilarious along with many other adjectives. Hilarious that sometimes you have to laugh about things rather than cry. It is enough to boggle the brain and drain the soul. If he ever had a real technology or not (we all have our different opinions), the fact after all this time we're having conversations like this is really sad and depressing. Rossi claimed to have the Holy Grail from the start. This has all taken too long. Honestly, laugh at me if you want, but if your perspective is correct you had the patience to maximize the collection of evidence when many would not have been able to last. So if the worst case happens and you turn out to be completely right, thanks for having more endurance than I could have ever had.

    Dewey,


    I see what you are saying. If you are indeed right about everything, letting the test continue to record more and more of his wrong doings would have been a very intelligent strategy. Actually, that makes a LOT of sense trying to think from YOUR perspective. Wow. Very interesting! Yep, that explains a lot to me. In that scenario where it was obviously a scam from the start of the test, all of you must have had a ton of patience to let the faux test play out. I'm not that patient once I feel for absolutely certain beyond any doubt someone has seriously betrayed me in such a serious manner -- or even more so people I care about. But in the situation I'm thinking about (which you really helped clarify) patience would have been critical.


    Thank you very much for clearing that up. I think I may understand your perspective better.

    I will say that if they had big questions about the setup, steam traps removed, measurement devices, total heat dissipation, heat transfer through an allegedly small tube, lack of supplies being transferred, no real connection to Johnson Matthey, and lack of manufacturing they would have saved everyone time (regardless if they were right, wrong, or somewhere in between) if they had told Rossi early on that they would not pay for the results the way the test was being conducted. Someone they *seem* to trust, Barry West, was (as far as I know) working there on a regular basis. Via what he witnessed and observed and reported back to Darden, IH should have had most of the same information after a few months -- that made them object to ERV reports -- as they had near the end of the test. If they thought the whole thing was a scam early on, they should have called out Rossi immediately and at least told him they wouldn't pay. For the sake of the whole LENR community -- if that was their conclusion at the time -- they should have made sure the test was ended ASAP. If I held their opinion, I would have told him to show me a test of a truly self sustaining system like the ones you claimed to produce in 2007 or our relationship is over. They may have sincerely hoped, though, that by the end of the test Rossi would show them *something* that worked. That is a legitimate possibility. But if they shared my sense of *urgency* to get results that could be repeated, they would have given him an ultimatum as soon as they were convinced it was a scam. If he wouldn't cooperate, they should have cut all ties forever, publicly and openly disclosing everything. Without factoring in distrust, paranoia, or Patterson Syndrome, there is ZERO legitimate reason why he couldn't demo a self sustaining system then if he had already done so years previously. But I'm not Industrial Heat, and they had their own reasoning for their behavior and waiting until the end of the test, whatever it may have been.

    There are all sorts of forms of energy, but it also has to be practically accessible, available on demand, and power dense. Solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, and other technologies are not the breakthrough we need. Literally, we need something the size of a car engine that produces the equivalent power of an internal combustion engine but in electricity rather than just heat/torque but for months at a time non-stop between CHEAP refuelings. So if the average car is a little more than 100HP that would mean 74.5 kilowatts of electricity. I think this is completely possible with LENR technology. After a few generations, it would be exceeded. Most importantly, a technology this energy dense could go just about anywhere. They could power homes, power vehicles, power businesses, power boats, etc.

    Google "introduction to scalar physics" and you will find a PDF file. The file has a well thought out explanation of the aether, magnetism, the electric field, etc.


    I'm not exactly sure if aether is made out of particles or something else we cannot quite comprehend. I think the issue is that we don't have the tools to really understand the exact composition of the aether. For example, I don't know if there is any microscope that could ever get an image of an aether particle. My mental image is that the aether is "something" (maybe a sea of tiny particles) that form all of matter and energy and maybe space itself.

    Rigel,


    The only single absolute truth that I'm convinced of -- for a number of reasons and from a number of sources that don't rely on "Rossi says" -- is that the E-Cat technology, as a whole, works. Virtually everything else is non-certain. Due to Rossi's secrecy and the tiny percentage of evidence (relating to the Doral incident) we have seen so far, I feel it is almost irresponsible to make proclamations or declarations of guilt or innocence for either party at this time -- even though speculation is very tempting. From time to time I dabble on this forums and share my thoughts, sometimes more than I should. Other times I read about specific issues and scream inside wishing that that we had more specific details so we wouldn't have to regurgitate the same issues repeatedly: the inner diameter of the steam pipe measured, the whole schematic of the the plant (on both sides of the wall) with the position of all components labeled, etc. I think about these issues and then it strikes me that it is pretty silly to waste time on these matters when we have a lot of knowledge about the Rossi Effect -- at least more than we did a couple years ago. Rossi alleged that he was capable of producing self sustaining reactors from the very start of his early work with Focardi in 2007. If we could get a solid, continual replication program going (continually running tests every single day Me356 style) then we should be able to obtain similar results! Then the court case would become less interesting and less relevant, because a set of guidelines (the guaranteed to work formula) could be distributed across the net for researchers everywhere to reproduce! But since so many replicators seem to be struggling right now with a lack of funds, family members with issues that require their time, health problems of their own, or are so busy trying to keep a roof over their heads I get depressed about the overall situation. Then I sometimes return to this forum and dabble in the discussions, trying not to let myself get carried away.


    Anyone, to get back on topic, I think that if push comes to shove -- unless Rossi thinks doing so would give IH leverage to (from his point of view) snatch the technology away from him -- will demonstrate the reality of his technology. This will not instantly negate many of the issues that IH has brought up. He still could have been far less than honest about many aspects of the Doral test -- to an extreme extent or a lesser extent. But if he finally yields under pressure to demonstrate his technology in a manner that removes all possible mechanisms for doubt even by the staunchest of skeptics (the pseudoskeptics will never be convinced), I think the whole case will be seen in a different light by most people.



    Wars have been fought for many reasons. My hope is that in our modern age if resource scarcity can become an almost non-issue (with technologies such as LENR, indoor agriculture, 3D printing, cheap water purification, etc) that there would be far fewer wars than in the past.

    Rigel,


    I'm a pilot wave fan too. More specifically, I'm a proponent of the concept that an aether exists which is the substrate of all physical reality. There are many variations of aether theory, and I don't think we know enough to say for certain which one is most accurate. However, the existence of an aether simplifies science and eliminates the need for nonsensical quantum concepts; for example, how an electron is not an individual particle but part of a probability sphere.

    Quote

    Ever heard of a technocracy?


    I have heard of the idea. I am an ardent supporter of technological advancement, but I also believe in a small, limited government. These days many of the most vocal technology enthusiasts are liberal leaning, and their total trust of government and disregard for personal liberty is abhorrent to me.


    Quote

    "The elite" don't own the power companies, we all do: pension companies love the steady returns.


    Legal ownership isn't required for the power that be to use centralized power against the people. Why do you think "smart meters" are being pushed so hard? Remotely, worshipers of the liberal faux gods such as Soros could switch off power to the homes of political dissidents.


    Quote

    And how on earth does heating my house with a small LENR reactor somehow
    confer autonomous zone status on my property - allowing me and my
    fellow community of anarchists to run wild in our own weapons-crazed
    drug-fuelled libertarian fun parade?



    And since you brought it up, I am libertarian leaning -- although I'm very conservative personally. I want all drugs legalized, most gun laws abolished, and a whole lot of other changes to get the government out of our lives. I'm all for groups staking claims on inhospitable land away from currently established cities and starting their own independent communities. For that matter, I would love to see the United States and many other nations around the world break up into smaller countries. For example, California and Texas are two fantastic examples of states that could succeed from the union, for different reasons.

    Technology is always political. Basically, technology can be used -- especially paradigm shifting technologies -- to reduce the power, influence, and control of government. For example, when high powered Ni-H technology starts to spread across the globe in a major way, there will be many very concerned politicians and members of the wealthy ruling class. Imagine how compact, portable, long lasting, and power dense LENR generators could give more options to everyone! Groups of like minded individuals could more easily start their own independent communities, travel would become far less expensive with the energy cost taken out of the equation, decentralized power would make it more difficult for corrupt governments to order cities blacked out, colonizing the solar system could finally become practical, and the list goes on! Moreover, such an energy technology would totally negate any currently existing false illusions about the need for carbon taxes or related environmental regulations -- making George Soros and hundreds more of his elite ilk very unhappy!

    Zeph, most of the articles from that search suggest a tax would work with a few tweaks, and the two more critical pages are based on the work of "well-funded" thinktanks. One of which is headed by Bjorn Lomborg, a man described by the Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty, as being "scientifically dishonest through misrepresentation of scientific facts, but not guilty (of the same) due to his lack of expertise in the fields in question".


    A carbon tax would work very well to harm industry, weaken the economy, strip away national sovereignty, and advance globalism. Those are the only ways it would function well. There is no rational reason for a carbon tax other than to advance the dream of a socialist global government as supporting by countless socialist liberals around the world. If Trump is truly supportive of putting the United States first, he needs to totally oppose such a plan and refuse to allow a carbon tax to even be considered.

    Ironically even the alarmists admit already, that carbon tax scheme doesn't work. So why the conservatives act like socialists by now?


    The carbon tax and most of the global warming movement is not about saving the planet but controlling human civilization. An end to capitalism, an end to personal freedom, and an end to national sovereignty: these are just a few of the goals of the billionaires and power elites behind the carbon tax and other initiatives to reduce carbon emissions. The vast majority of ordinary common liberals (those not in positions of power and massive wealth) have been brainwashed to not even care about the rights, liberties, and freedoms they would be losing. Instead, bashing individuals like Trump who dare stand up for the sovereignty of their own nations makes them feel special and elevated above the "redneck fascists" they love to mock.


    The reason conservatives are acting like socialists is simple: THEY ARE SOCIALISTS!


    They always have been, they are now, and they probably always will be. For a long time a large portion of the Republican Party have simply been liberal socialists in disguise -- accepting funds and being ordered around by the same billionaire power elites that give people like Hillary Clinton their marching orders. For example, the hideous and monstrous George Soros, whom I consider to be one of the most evil men to have ever walked on this Earth. Most of the Republicans attacking President Trump -- and many that are now trying to cozy up to him -- are simply socialists in disguise. They have taken advantage of the mostly brain dead electorate who are fairly easily, in most circumstances, fooled by any Republican that will satisfactorily nail a few talking points.


    I fear for Trump. Even though he is not perfect and I disagree with him on some issues, he at least cares about this nation and is willing to do what he thinks is right. However, he is surrounded by wolves in disguise as Republicans that are trying to manipulate him. If he falls for a climate tax plan, then that will be a clear and obvious signal that he has been completely manipulated and is being controlled by the socialists around him.

    Rigel,


    I only had very minimal interest in the MFMP test run. Once I heard the setup, protocols, fuel ingredients, and so forth, I came to the conclusion it probably wouldn't produce significant results. Hydrogenating nickel is more complex than just pumping hydrogen at high pressure in with the nickel at fairly low temperatures. If Me356 was in contact with the MFMP, I doubt he would give them any assistance or useful information beyond what he already provided on this forum. He won't share it with this community -- after he promised to repeatedly -- so I don't think he will give away any useful information to the MFMP. The folks at the MFMP work hard and have built many sophisticated test systems. However, like most of the LENR community, I think they are failing to produce results because they are not giving adequate attention to optimizing hydrogen absorption into the nickel. If this is not optimized, I don't think there is any significant chance of excess heat or emissions to be measured. I think they would have a greater chance of success building a half dozen Model T type systems (you can read about them on Looking for Heat), trying many different methods and techniques to optimize hydrogen absorption, and then running many test simultaneously. Some combination of annealing, vacuuming, acid etching, ultrasound irradiating, pre-hydrogenating with various reverse spillover catalysts, pulsating with pressure/heat, and other techniques should do the trick for a specific size/shape/purity of nickel powder. Once that is achieved -- which may take some work -- I think they could run a hundred different successful tests optimizing the excess heat by adding lithium and other elements.


    Again, I think part of Rossi's paranoia was the simplicity of his so called "secrets." Until he started getting serious about EM stimulation, most of his "secret sauce" was just the techniques he used to get hydrogen into the nickel.

    http:[email protected]/msg42873.html

    Quote

    [Vo]:List of Rossi 18-hour test parameters

    Jed Rothwell Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:10:12 -0800

    Code
    1. A source close to the recent 18-hour test of the Rossi device gave me the
    2. following figures. These are approximations.

    Rigel,


    I would like for Rossi to somehow prove that the test at Doral wasn't a total fraud (my thinking is that at the core there was excess heat and some manufacturing of at least limited quantities of something), figure out a way to survive the court case, and move on to put the Quark X on the market so they can be used in thousands of applications. This would be Rossi succeeding with the E-Cat. I sincerely believe this will happen, because I'm convinced the E-Cat technology as a whole works even if Andrea Rossi has been shady and manipulative.


    However, lets say he was exposed during the trial as perpetuating a total hoax at Doral, committing fraud, hiring an actor to help him commit fraud, and lying about everything. Then, as a result of all this coming out, he lost everything and potentially ended up in prison. This would be an example of Rossi NOT succeeding. And, in this case, he would NOT deserve to succeed. However, even in this circumstance, the E-Cat technology and the Rossi Effect could survive without the inventor. In this hypothetical situation (which I think is not likely) the replicator community and other parties could figure out how to maximize hydrogen absorption (along with other issues), conduct successful tests, and then share the results with the whole world. Waves of replications would follow in which reactors self stained for hours at a time -- just like Rossi claimed all of his systems from the very start were capable of.


    But in the very unlikely event that all the "successful" replicators so far were mistaken, all of the replicators working privately come out to say they found nothing, and no replication effort is able to produce high powered Ni-H, there is NOTHING else I feel worthy of giving my attention to in the LENR sector. That could change in time -- if a company like Unified Gravity Corporation were to produce an actual product -- but as of right now Ni-H is the only technology I think is close to commercialization.

    The hypothesis I'd like to share is sort and simple: 99% of Ni-H tests don't result in adequate hydrogen absorption and simultaneous creation of lattice defects/voids/cavities (the spaces where exotic hydrogen species can form). If we optimized hydrogenation, we would have far more successful tests and we'd sort out the remaining issues (like stimulation and the use of lithium to boost output) very rapidly.

    THH,


    There is more data from the 18 hour test, I think, if someone is willing to dig around the web. However, even years ago, I had to scrounge around the internet to find more specifics. At this moment I don't know if all the documents are still available. For example, Mats Lewan posted several comments on various sites with input powers, flow rates, and quotes from Dr. Levi. I remember a few of the posts -- while not formal reports by any means -- contained a decent amount of information. Back then, studying the information I gathered, it convinced me the test was legitimate. Again, like everyone wants to force me to repeat over and over again at risk of being lynched, I'm not an engineer so no one should trust a word I say any more than they should eat the feces from their sewer drain in their back yard.


    I personally think Dr. Levi is trustworthy -- although I've never met him in person. Over the years I've only heard good things about him -- except for various accusations on this forum and a few other places on the net. Do I think he is infallible? Of course not. But I think the chance that he would intentionally deceive anyone about performance of an E-Cat or analysis of a sample is extremely low. If I were a replicator seeking an analysis of my data or a fuel sample, I would have full confidence he would be totally honest about the results. As a human being he could make an error, but I would have zero concern about dishonesty. In a similar manner I think Focardi was trustworthy. Those who think he intentionally went along with Rossi to promote a fake technology, knowing it was all a scam, are hateful people, in my opinion.

    Jed,



    I didn't think you would believe the claim. But since you don't and it seems IH doesn't, I think the claim would be the easiest and most straightforward attack path for anyone who believed as you do. By going for this central claim, I think Rossi could either be validated to the world, or less likely in my opinion, refuted and exposed as the arch conman so many people claim he is. Basically, if someone came up to me and claimed to be a multi-billionaire (and not a monk seeking to live out a vow of poverty while giving it away to charities) I wouldn't be convinced just because he drove up to my home in a brand new Ford Mustang. I'd want to see the ninety foot catamaran he bragged about over dinner, the ten thousand square foot mansion in Beverly Hills, or speak to the administrator of the library he claimed to donate a million dollars to. Just about any one with a modest income could figure out a way to lease a low range sports car and lie about it. But there would be little room to deny their wealth once out in the middle of the Atlantic with them dining on lobster prepared by their private chef.


    What I'm saying is that Rossi has literally claimed the "world" so to speak, but potential investors and partners have been satisfied with what would represents a few kitchen scraps dug up from his waste bin. It's ridiculous in my opinion.


    I've dreamed many times of winning the lottery. If I were ever to do so (I only spend one dollar for one ticket maybe once every month) at this point I probably would try to start my own replication project. But years ago, before I know what I know now about Rossi's behavior, I probably would have tried to support his work with a large donation without remuneration. However, and I thought about this many times, in that hypothetical situation I would have demanded to see a self sustaining system at high power along with a control reactor. If that is what he claimed from the start, it would be what I wanted to see. If he wouldn't allow the test, I would have walked away and spent the money on some other type of exotic research.

    The consequences are awful, awful, awful. Much worse than people realize. Rossi may have strangled what little hope remained for cold fusion. Now, it may be lost forever because of him.


    Many dreadful things have happened in the history of cold fusion. I guess the worst events were the initial ones, such as the attacks by the scientific establishment, scientists getting fired, experiments sabotaged, Stan Pons driven out the country . . .


    Rossi ranks number two in damage. He may be the final blow that destroys the field and any hope of cold fusion energy for mankind.


    If Rossi has what he claims -- regardless if he has behaved morally or ethically -- I don't think he has strangled cold fusion. Even if the worst case happened and evidence came out to prove his trickery at Doral was absolute and total, there is enough known about his technology and enough replicators having success for high powered Ni-H and/or Ni-H-Li to thrive. For example, there are a number of replicators whom I think produced valid results such as Songsheng, Parkhomov, other Russian teams, and other parties who are doing work quietly and confidentially. All it will take is for one person like Me356 (with an obsessive compulsive mindset and endless supply of energy) to perform long series of tests changing individual parameters (mostly about optimizing hydrogen absorption) until success arrives and be willing to share all the details. Once the know how to optimize hydrogen absorption (with simutaneous creation of the dislocations/defects in the lattice which are the NAE) for a specific purity/grade/size of nickel powder (or wire) in a specific reactor design, more replications would follow.


    So, in the worst case, I think Rossi may possibly have slowed down the acceptance of Ni-H by being unwilling to cooperate more closely with partners. Basically, the "Patterson Syndrome" was at work. If he had been willing to partner with a company in 2011, sharing EVERYTHING, I think we could have LENR devices sold at Walmart today. But I think via the replications of his work by multiple parties, a trail of tests have been established that will keep Ni-H research going. My hope is that in the not too distant future various parties will be ready to openly share results from their successful tests. Then again, some of these individuals may come down with "Patterson Syndrome" as well -- a highly contagious disease. In the best case, which may not happen, the lawsuit somehow ends up with Doral not being a total sham, him not being thrown into jail, and the Quark X somehow being further developed. But I really hate even mentioning the Doral test, because it distracts from his original claims that no one seems to care about. Either he was telling the truth about self sustain or not: I don't see room for a middle ground. I wish this issue would be pushed in court.

    Rossi has claimed self sustained operation from the earliest days of his research. This test seems to be an example of one of his systems performing at high power in self-sustain mode. This was one of his earliest systems, but he continued to assert -- up until the Quark X -- that every one of his reactors were capable of self sustaining without input while producing high levels of output. Continual operation at high power output without input is the Holy Grail of cold fusion research. And, if you can achieve it utilizing a cheap element like nickel (or recycling reverse spillover catalysts like palladium) the paradigm shattering potential goes up even higher. As far as I'm concerned, the whole freaking debate about Andrea Rossi and the validity of his technology should revolve around his technologies ability to self sustain at high power. This is the most central specific claim he's made about his technology. After claiming to be able to achieve self sustain from the start (TEN YEARS AGO) he should certainly be able to produce the same results today with his increased knowledge, experience, know how, and understanding of the Rossi Effect. I personally have no doubt he is capable of making systems self sustain -- although others feel differently. Now, if he would ever be willing to openly and completely share such know how with another party is up for debate. I think the truth is that the so called "secret sauce" isn't too hard to figure out if someone with an obsessive compulsive mindset and a crazy work ethic is willing to run experiments non-stop for a couple months. I think this is how Me356 figured out how to get results.


    Back to what I was speaking about, I think the whole debate about COPs of 1, 1.3, 2, and so on is a total joke. Even higher COPs that may seem more significant (lets say 3-10) are meaningless when self sustained operation is possible. I personally wish that the judge would look at Andrea Rossi and say, "You've been claiming that your reactors can operate for hours at a time without input for ten years. I've reviewed the patents, documents, transcripts, and blog posts where you have repeated this hundreds of times. If this lawsuit is going to continue, I want to see such a reactor operate with my own eyes with my own court appointed engineers taking measurements."


    If Rossi wanted to do so, I am confident he could satisfy such a request from the judge. But I'm not convinced that even under direct threat of life imprisonment that he'd obey an order that he didn't agree with -- even if he lost everything. But I think if some sort of request or push for such a test could be made, it would be far more productive than squabbling and debating about low COP figures. With the so called "hot cats" we're depending on temperature figures from IR cameras that can be debated for months on end. Such never ending arguments have happened on this forum! With such a self sustaining system, a control and an active system (the only difference being one with hydrogen and one with none) would have an equal amounts of power supplied. If after warm up and triggering the self sustaining system operated for hours producing a flow of heat with no input power (AFTER THE CONTROL COOLED DOWN TO NEAR AMBIENT) the evidence would be rock solid. You wouldn't need a freaking IR camera and advanced calculations to see what was taking place!


    I sure hope in the deposition of Andrea Rossi that his claims about self sustained operation of his systems are brought up again and again. His under oath answers about them should be placed on the record. Maybe his description of getting a reactor up and running (with only heat/pressure variations), cutting the power off, and allowing it to run for hours at a time in self sustain mode would entice the judge to ask for proof!


    Again, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if there is any realistic situation in which a judge would ask for a demonstration in a case like this. But if I were IH, it would by my number one goal if my lawyers claimed the strategy was viable.


    If I end up reading excerpts from Rossi's deposition where low COPs are debated, I'll probably barf.


    Again, HE CLAIMS THE FREAKING HOLY GRAIL AND HAS FROM ThE START!

    That paper does not describe the test I'm referring to. In the test I'm referring to, there was no phase change.


    http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/IE96Rossi.pdf



    Here is another reference.


    http://www.nyteknik.se/energi/…cludes-combustion-6421304

    Jed,


    What do you think about the 18 hour test that Dr. Levi conducted back in 2011. Although the numbers might be slightly off -- I'd have to go look them up -- he reported that after a short warm up period using a greater quantity of power, the reactor produced 15kW (with a spike of 130kW) for eighteen hours, utilizing only about a hundred watts which was consumed by the control box. I don't think there is any reasonable explanation other than it worked. Not unless we want to buy the idea of some folks that the metal in the system magically "stored up" enough power during first brief stage to continually boost the temperature of the water for the remainder of the test. From what I heard a few years ago, Dr. Levi called Rossi to report the huge power spike. Rossi became very concerned and urge him to vent some hydrogen (in these early systems the nickel was under reasonably high hydrogen pressure). Dr. Levi obeyed and the power dropped to around 15kW. This is another reason I think the test was real: just venting some hydrogen wouldn't change the output if we were dealing with stored thermal energy from the first several minutes of the test. To me, this is the most conclusive test we know of that we have details about from a first hand witness.

    "Yes. So could unicorn farts."


    Then we need to track down the unicorn ranchers and buy a canister of compressed waste gases, because if it is anywhere as near as amazing as the high powered Ni-H effect the world needs to analyze them immediately. But to match the potential of the "Rossi Effect" which can produce high powered LENR, it should be able to reverse cellular aging or cure a hundred forms of cancer. Let's just hope the unicorn ranchers are straightforward, open, and not in the midst of a extremely nasty lawsuit. As an outsider to the field of unicorn flatulence -- with no time or energy spent researching the miraculous gas -- I'd rather never communicate with any of them rather than step foot on their farm only to become part of a fecal matter fight. I guess I'll tip toe towards unicorn-fart-forums.com and try to determine if the field is safe to enter. If I'm being paranoid and they is no war going on, then I'll immediately start figuring out how to obtain a sample of their absolutely strongest vapors. Not just any kind mind you, but the ones claimed to hang around in the atmosphere in a self sustaining manner for several hours -- giving off a sweet flowery scent. Maybe we can get a major medical research center involved for a clinical trial. We can expose some elderly lab mice to the gas and let them take puffs -- along with a control group -- and compare their appearance, running performance, gene expression, and lifespan.

    I agree with the call for peace. There is no benefit in provoking each other. And, for the most part, there's very little benefit in debating the various issues discussed in this thread when we are lacking the complete perspective, the full collection of evidence, and countless facts. I for one don't want to argue, even though I make the mistake of doing so from time to time. All of our nerves would be less frayed if we just decided to wait until the trial begins. It is obvious to me that we won't even see 1% of the evidence until that happens. If the so called "Plant Rossi" people (I absolutely hate that term because it lumps everyone together) want to present themselves as rational and reasonable, they should set the example for EVERYONE'S behavior by refraining from taunting, name calling, flame baiting, etc.

    If my conjecture is correct, one of the things that may have happened behind the wall was the long term, slow loading of nickel with hydrogen utilizing platinum black (platinum sponge) as a reverse spillover catalyst. Do I have any evidence of this? Of course not. But it seems reasonable to me. If the process(s) behind the wall were related to the preparation of fuel and these issues could come up in court, Andrea Rossi wouldn't want any of the details shared with the public.


    Another possibility is that Fulvio could be questioned on the stimulation methods utilized by the reactors, what he knew about their operation, what he witnessed about their performance, and other related matters. This could contain IP that Rossi would not like disclosed.


    Also, remember Rossi worked on the Quark X in that container.

    A self sustaining E-Cat (especially a Quark X) producing continual electrical output could power an EM Drive or other exotic propulsion technology. Of course much more work would need to be done to guarantee reliability and space worthiness, but a high powered Ni-H technology would be like a dream to a company like Boeing. Even if they were not used in exotic reactionless drives at first, they could be used to super heat water -- which is found all over the solar system -- to be used for propulsion. I could imagine a probe that travels to a destination in the solar system (using up x gallons of water), lands to perform scanning/exploration, sends out a robot to harvest ice, and then refuels on site for the trip to the next destination.

    Dewey,


    Maybe you can explain why the following conversation didn't happen.


    For the record the following conversation is totally hypothetical. Before I am lynched for making up falsehoods, I want to state repeatedly the following is totally made up. I wrote it and it is not real quotes from IH or Rossi. It is fictitious. Fake. Fallacious. However, I am very curious why a similar conversation did not take place. And, for the record, this UNREAL conversation that didn't happen isn't to attack IH or Rossi. I'm writing this because I feel the eighteen hour test is one of the most convincing tests ever conducted. Oh, and this fake conversation took place (which it didn't) before a single dollar had transferred to Andrea Rossi. Well, maybe Darden had bought him a coffee at Starbucks.


    Rossi: I'll be happy to demonstrate my latest and greatest high temperature hot cat to you. Here is a diagram for you to review and performance estimates. Can I start work on Tuesday?


    IH: You're projecting that this alumina tube will produce at least a COP of four. You know, we're a lot more interested in that early design you allowed Dr. Levi to test that was alleged to basically self sustain for eighteen hours, except for the power going into the control box. That would be a lot more convincing to us. If it truly continues to produce power for many hours with near zero input, that would be worth a fortune for us. We'd work out fair compensation for you.


    Rossi: But this new system is so much better? Why go back to that old unstable device? We can measure the heat production of this tube with an IR camera. Why mess around with water flow when we don't have to?


    IH: Andrea, don't you understand the difference between self sustaining for hours and a COP of 4? We are wanting these tests to confirm the reality of your technology. A self sustaining reactor could make that happen much more easily than one that does not. And if we avoid phase change and don't worry about producing steam, measuring the increase in temperature of a flow of water isn't impractical. As long as we accurately measure the temperature and flow of input water from a tank with stirrers to remove thermal gradients and carefully measure the output as well, the test should be pretty convincing. The electrical input can be measured with the same power monitors you're using now. To double check that the total quantity of water was correct, we can even collect and store the output water.


    Rossi: That device was the past; the hot cat is the future. I don't want to go back to it.


    IH: I advise you to reconsider. You have been claiming to everyone since you went public with your technology that your devices can self sustain for many hours at a time between reinvigorations. If you want our relationship to continue, this is something we insist on seeing and measuring. With a self sustaining device producing a minimum of 15 kW for 18 hours with no significant input, we'll have the evidence we need to move forward and compensate you generously!


    Rossi: Didn't you hear what I told you, that device was unsafe! It nearly spiked to an output of 130kW for a period of time. If I didn't tell Dr. Levi to very carefully vent some hydrogen, it could have melted down and injuries could have happened! I'm not willing to risk anyone's health or well being.


    IH: We're willing to build an advanced safety system to monitor it remotely. We'll conduct the test in a pit lined with concrete with blast walls all around. I can make a call right now and have a robot shipped who can approach the reactor and make any adjustments we require while the test is being conducted. No human will need to go near it while the test is being conducted.


    Rossi: I'm simply not interested.


    IH: Then we're no longer interested in doing business with you. Best wishes for you and your technology. Please never call us again. Since you won't show us your most convincing experiment, we must assume your technology doesn't work afterall.


    Rossi: But a COP of 4 is amazing! It beats hot fusion!


    IH: Self sustain is far better. If you really had it, then you would be willing to show it to us. Goodbye.