THEDEBATEISUSELESS Verified User
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Posts by THEDEBATEISUSELESS

    I just had a thought.


    In systems that rely on heat and no electric current running through the nickel or electric fields from a resistor, fractoemission could produce a current running through the metal during thermal shocks (rapid increases in temperature) that damage the lattice and emit electrons. Once this happens, additional electrons could be emitted producing more current and the reactions could proliferate, self sustaining.

    Kind of a letdown having a COP of only 22000. But, I'm comforted by the fact that you can get heat, light, electricity, and propellantless thrust from it. Modest claims, but I think most people could agree that they are quite realistic. Who would have someone add their name to another theoretical paper with lots of formulas in it if it wasn't really true?


    If the Rossi Effect is real as a whole then I think this claim is probably very realistic.


    First, we know that all of Rossi's devices have been capable (I'll say allegedly capable to be diplomatic with some people on here) of self sustaining for hours at the time. Even Sergio Focardi who tested Rossi's earliest systems claims this. This means a COP of INFINITY. And infinity is far higher than 22,000! So from one point of view, the COP is extremely impressive but nothing that we shouldn't have expected.


    Secondly, my guess is that in addition to perhaps expelling energetic electrons and other emissions that might ionize the hydrogen gas, the nuclear effects will warm up the cathode until it becomes a thermionic emitter. This would make the nickel start emitting electrons -- adding the current going through the cell. This current would seem like it was "free" but it would really be a product of the heat generated by the nuclear reactions.


    This is an amazing paper and worthy of high praise, in my opinion. Of course this technology needs to be tested by multiple third parties ASAP to obtain verification.


    But take my words with a container of salt -- I'm not a physicist. I'm just giving my opinion.

    My questions about this paper for anyone who is interested:


    1) The following pathway is mentioned: 62−x Ni + xn∗ →62Ni. Can anyone explain this in a little more easy to understand manner? For example, he states, "where p∗ and n∗ means a bound nucleon which has a source in another nuclide." What do the "x" symbols represent?


    2) He then goes onto mention, "The main sources of the bound nucleons are" and identifies "5Mn → 54 Cr + p"


    He also states the following later on in the paper: "For example the reaction Ni+p* with p* from manganese or lithium would give copper isotope below the ground state."


    Does the above tell us that Rossi is using Mn in his fuel mixture!?


    3) The start up voltage of .105V seems too low to start up a glow discharge which usually requires a couple hundred volts even if the gas is at low pressure. An arc discharge, however, is what seems to be depicted in the paper. An arc discharge could operate at a much lower voltage. Was it some special property of this system that allowed for the ionization to begin at such a low voltage OR could the control system have imparted a brief high voltage spike (even for a millisecond) to get the arc going before lowering the voltage back down?


    4) Rossi just indicated on the JONP earlier today or yesterday that the pure electrical output of the Quark would be more like a current rather than a voltage. Does this mean that the nuclear reactions occurring at the cathode are perhaps emitting copious electrons and providing the power for the current flow? Could this device basically be a nuclear "current" (rather than voltage) booster device?


    5) There is a sentence in the paper that reads, "The important part for this to work is that the electrons needs to be unpaired in order to make a s in flip to emit photon in the microwave region." Does this mean that one form of output from the cathode is microwave radiation? This would certainly further ionize the gas into protons and electrons -- perhaps explaining the high current.


    6) The paper states, "Suitable elements that are naturally in 1S states are the alkali and coin metals. In addition some more metals could be in 1s states this includes nickel, platinum, niobium, molybdenum, ruthenium, rhodium and chrome. A dz2 state is particularly good since this is a magnetic quadrupole seen from

    the nucleon.." Is palladium in a 1S state? I'll have to do a search to find out. If it is not in the 1S state, perhaps this could be one of multiple possible reasons why Ni-H works better than Pd-D?


    7) What elements have the dz2 state which is claimed to be particularly good?


    8) On the practical side of things, getting hydrogen into the nickel seems to be of critical importance. The hydrogen or liquid alkali metal needs to be placed between grains or cracks. According to the paper, this would allow them to be exposed to a quadrapole magnetic field. Basically, this seems to imply that methods of optimizing hydrogen absorption such as the use of atomic hydrogen or ions bombarded onto the metal could accelerate the effect. Could me356 by performing multiple cycles of vacuum degassing and then exposing to hydrogen be simply tremendously embrittling his nickel?


    "A good way to put atoms in between the grains is by using liquid metal embrittlement and/or hydrogen embrittlement. There charged ions of the liquid metal/hydrogen fills the space in between grains to make cracks and at the same time place them in strong magnetic quadrupoles."


    9) Does the following statement explain why Andrea Rossi has used frequencies that included square waves and allegedly resonance conditions with his resistor that produces sudden spikes?


    "The special electromagnetic fields that are required for extracting energy out of a nucleon is a magnetic quadrupole or a changing electric field."


    10) It seems to me that this paper tells us TWO very important things: fuel processing is critical and varying electric fields can also help. What do all of you think?



    I don't expect for them to have tested more than milligrams of fuel in the tiny crucibles that are used in the experiment. However, even if they used a milligram of fuel we can scale up their numbers to get an idea of the power of their reaction compared to previous replications. We should be able to get an idea of the behavior of the nuclear reactions, the temperature ranges they take place in, and the power density. Coming from a company like Nissan, this will be HUGE news. I hope and pray they publish their paper and presentation immediately. They were willing to present their results at the meeting, so they should at least be willing to share the same information with us.

    Here is a video showing a piece of equipment VERY similar to what the Nissan team will be using. I'm totally shocked at their lack of sophistication. These folks clearly are amateurs utilizing sub-standard equipment and their results will mean NOTHING! If they can't actually utilize modern equipment instead of stone age tools, they shouldn't harm the field with their sub-standard work.


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    Here is a link to the actual piece of equipment listed in their abstract.


    https://www.linseis.com/filead…s/LINSEIS_STA_PT_1600.pdf


    https://www.linseis.com/en/our…rmogravimetry/sta-pt1600/


    http://www.sg-instruments.com/linseis/sta-pt1600.html


    Obviously, nothing can be determined when such a primitive tool is utilized. And, most likely, since they don't have fifteen dozen PhDs on the project, they don't even have anyone qualified to operate the device.

    I agree that replication is what matters. But if you can treat nickel wires in such a way, despite their low surface area before treatment, to produce high levels of excess heat then I think it is a sign that replication may be slightly less of a dreadfully tedious process that some people think. I'm not saying replication isn't a lot of work, but if nickel wire can be processed to work extremely well then I will indeed do a dance. Me356 has promised to share all the information required for replication. So far, he has been very slow about this. But if he has been honest to Bob Greenyer, he may be about to spill the beans.

    Bob,


    I agree with how using wire could be more useful in understanding the basic effect. You are absolutely correct in my opinion. Also, as you have pointed out in the past, nickel powder presents a problem due to sintering. The smaller you go the lower the temperature the powder will start forming one solid mass. So beyond a certain level, increasing the surface area results in diminishing returns. My guess is that Rossi determined a few microns in size was as small as you could go without facing major issues with sintering that would require huge R and D efforts.


    However, I'm all for producing a high powered system that is mostly reliable first (enough to be commercialized) and then let scientists for the next hundred years theorize about the detailed processes. If Me356 has accomplished this with just WIRE I'll jump for joy and do a dance. My guess is that if he can get high COP and high output from wire, he must have found a way to fracture the surface dramatically to increase the surface area by an order of magnitude or two.

    I'm eager for Me356 to present his results because he is claiming a COP of 10 up to sometimes 40 (intentionally not going higher to avoid unwanted emissions).


    Maybe with Nissan about to make their presentation, it will motivate him to present his data and methods to the community.


    After so many grueling months of having deal with constant negativity, it seems a few positive events are about to happen.


    EDIT: If he is still using wire and not powder, his results are even more amazing.

    "Materials structure clarification for novel exothermic reaction between metal and hydrogen."


    I doubt they would be calling it a novel exothermic reaction if they found nothing. If no excess heat was found, it would be more accurately described as the "lack" of any exothermic reaction.


    This wording gives me hope that they have detected excess heat. I sure hope it wasn't just a one off. If a big company like Nissan is involved, there is no reason for them not to run a hundred tests or more.

    Is there any indication if the results are significant, and positive ?

    I missed where it is said.


    The idea is that if they had not found any excess heat, they wouldn't have submitted a second paper about the practicality of the technology for vehicles. To run a test or series of tests and get no results and publish such a paper might seem a little strange.

    Quote

    If this happens, I think it would be more accurate to say that Mills,
    Thermacore and Piantelli had something, Rossi had nothing, and Nissan
    has confirmed the former. I do not see why Rossi gets any credit for
    anything, unless his own devices are shown to work.



    So if Rossi was using a combination of nickel powder and lithium aluminum hydride and claiming excess heat and then others use the same approximate combination to produce excess heat then he has nothing? First of all, Piantelli and Focardi never used powder: they used bulk nickel in which 99% of the mass of the fuel could not participate in the reaction. Rossi's first step was to increase surface area and hence the amount of fuel that could become, "active." Furthermore, although he likely utilized additives for some of his first systems and hydrogen from a tank, I'm not sure if anyone before him attempted to perform an actual test with a combination of nickel and LiAlH4. I know there are patents which discuss the use of hydrides as a hydrogen source, but I don't think (although I could be wrong) any tests were performed.


    I'm convinced that Rossi's technology did work. Unless you think Focardi is every bit as horrible of a human being as you consider Rossi, he is on the record as having participated in many of his tests and verifying excess heat! He states this in available YouTube videos and quotes in the book, "Secrets of the E-Cat" in which the journalist both obtained official interviews AND off the camera conversations. Then Rossi performed seemingly convincing tests to the Navel Research Lab (I think Tony Tether was a witness who found the test convincing). After that Dr. Levi witnessed a few tests with the early low temperature E-Cat reactors. In one test, a reactor using water flow calorimetry seemed to basically self sustain for eighteen hours, with the input power only being about a hundred watts for the control box. Then I remember a whole series of tests and demonstrations Rossi performed, but I do not recall the details. At some point, Cures became involved and he gave his account IN DETAIL on the Cobraf forum about helping Rossi test a variety of reactors (both the reactors for the first one megawatt plant and the earliest "hot cats"). He assisted without signing an NDA or accepting any compensation, until he claims (although he never uses the words Industrial Heat) Rossi's new partner wanted him off of the project. Then, before Lugano, there were tests conducted by Dr. Levi and others of "hot cat" reactors that seemed to show excess heat. In addition to this, people close to Rossi have alleged that he ran test after test privately or with his closest assistants.


    Overall, Rossi ran a ton of tests. Regardless if the Doral plant produced a watt of excess heat or not, I feel it is downright ridiculous to say that it has any impact on the reality or falsity of excess heat in other tests.


    Quote

    What hundreds of tests?!? What are you talking about, for crying out
    loud? He has never published a single convincing test! Previously he did
    not allow anyone to test the machine with proper instruments. Finally,
    when I.H. spent a year testing it correctly, they found nothing.



    And they've not posted ANY test results from that period, so none of us can look at them. Obviously, due to the litigation, there are legal reasons why they cannot. I get that.


    Jed. I am having to take a deep breath to compose myself.


    When I say I'm convinced Rossi's technology works, I'm not specifically talking about Doral. I'm talking about his technology as a whole. However, with you, it seems that the entire plausibility of Rossi ever producing excess heat in any of his hundreds and hundreds of tests revolves around the Doral test. This is a very incorrect view point in my opinion. The Doral test could have possibly (we need all the information that will be presented at the trial) been very "fishy" so to speak. Perhaps, even very manipulated or deceitful. Hypothetically, let's even say it was totally false. This doesn't mean he didn't produce excess heat in other tests PREVIOUSLY or didn't produce excess heat in other tests AFTERWARDS. If IH's position is proven that the Doral test was a total and absolute hoax is proven true (something I'm not convinced of) then that only means THAT SPECIFIC TEST was problematic or totally false. It does not impact all of his other tests!


    The entire reality or falsity of the Rossi Effect does NOT revolve around Doral.


    The really of the Rossi Effect also does NOT revolve only around Andrea Rossi: the basis of the effect stretches all the way back to the results of Piantelli, Focardi, the scientists that worked with them, and even the early tests of Stremmenos. Already, a number of parties have claimed to replicate the Rossi Effect. In the future, perhaps Nissan and maybe other parties may announce positive results. A formula might even be provided that could allow LOTS of people to replicate. In my opinion, the Rossi Effect may be about to take on a life of its own.

    "Neither has Rossi! His own data proves he has nothing."


    If Nissan produces positive replication results from a combination of Ni-LiAlH4 and more such results start rolling in, I think it will become more and more difficult for people to say that he has nothing. By having nothing, in my mind without over analyzing the statement, that means that he has no method right now at his disposal of producing excess heat. If many other groups start showing excess heat with this combination, it will be tough to say that for some unknown reason Rossi was never able to get it to work but THEY were.

    Quote

    No body has started up a "shutdown Brillouin", or a "shutdown MFMP", or Cravens, Miles, Ahern or Storms site! Why are you saying they will with Nakamura?


    Because of Rossi critics?!?


    Because none of them have produced, as far as I am aware, a power density or COP anywhere near that of the Rossi Effect. This makes some people extremely jealous. There are some people who have a VERY DIM VIEW of Rossi who can't imagine HE is the person who figured out the Holy Grail of LENR. Some people simply can't differentiate between the technology as a whole (not specifically the Doral test or any other singular test) and the inventor. What I'm saying is that I believe there MIGHT be some people who are so angry at Rossi there is a slim chance they might just attack Nakamura and try to discredit his work because it could provide evidence for the Rossi Effect.


    Quote

    Almost all here on this forum want LENR to be real. There is no reason
    for us not to want it. Silly conspiracy theories are just that....
    silly.



    Nope. It is not silly. Jealousy is a super real phenomenon. There could possibly be supporters of LENR in general that would be willing to dismiss Andrea Rossi's core technology along with him as a person/businessman because of their distrust or hatred of him. Don't get me wrong. If he really did mislead everyone -- including the readers of the JONP -- about basically EVERYTHING (except the fact excess heat of some amount was produced which I am convinced must have been the case) in regards to the Doral test, then I'll personally be VERY IRATE TO A HUGE DEGREE. However, I now must say two things. First, I want ALL the evidence to be presented (not just cherry picked emails from both sides) in the jury trial before coming to any final personal conclusion on the manner. Secondly, even if Industrial Heat is correct about EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of Doral being totally false and misrepresented, I am NOT willing to dismiss the overall Rossi Effect. I'm convinced the Rossi Effect is real and has been replicated in the past. I'm not an engineer or a scientist, so anyone and everyone should feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt. But since I'm convinced the effect is real, I'm always going to give Andrea Rossi FULL CREDIT for re-discovering the work of Focardi-Piantelli and enhancing it in many logical and rational ways. For example, enhancing the surface area so more than .01% of the nickel fuel could participate in the reactions, adding sources of atomic hydrogen, adding lithium as a secondary fuel, etc.


    Not matter how upset I may become due hypothetical future revelations, I absolutely and totally refuse to EVER lump together Rossi the person and his technology.


    Quote

    However, most here also realize that for LENR to advance, it needs to be
    taken seriously and with scientific integrity. Rossi has stained that
    integrity something awful. So there are some who see this and are simply
    trying to correct it.




    I'm convinced that Andrea Rossi has already advanced LENR tremendously from the technological view point. Replications by Parkhomov, Songsheng, Stepanov, Me356, other Russian teams, and now possibly -- although they have not yet published their results -- Nissan, confirm the Rossi Effect is a reality, in my opinion as a non-engineer. Now, it is very possible or even likely he has been less than honest or deceptive in some ways about certain issues. Maybe it will be proven in court that he behaved in a highly manipulative way. But this does nothing to refute the fundamental reality of his overall technology. Again, I'm not talking about the performance of Doral or any of the issues about whether it was or was not the official test that could result in a payment. I'm talking about his basic techniques and combinations of materials and electromagnetic stimulation methods being capable of producing excess heat.


    People can be complicated. People have have strengths and weaknesses. I know people who can donate large amounts of food to homeless people in dangerous areas out of the goodness of their heart but lie through their teeth to people about personal matters -- even in church! Rossi can have an absolutely real and valid technology that he has told the truth about in terms of performance/behavior and possibly -- if it is confirmed by the trial -- behaved very, very badly as a businessman. Everyone has different sides of themselves.


    We won't learn the full truth until the trial. Until then, I think the hateful remarks and insults flying back and forth on this forum should cease. We know only a tiny fraction of the overall truth about the whole situation.


    Quote

    Supporting a deceiver does not help the field!   
    If one pushes illogical thought long enough, things become clouded, so
    much so that conspiracy begins to take control (as seen lately) and
    unfounded accusations are pushed where not deserved.




    The illogical thought is to lump Rossi's technology and Rossi's business practices (good or bad) together and then throw the whole lump into trash bin. In addition, it is very possible Rossi has been deceptive or has exaggerated about certain issues, while telling the basic fundamental truth about the performance of his technology as a whole (again, not specifically Doral or any single test). The existing replications and upcoming revelation of Nissan's results may help confirm that he has told the truth about the technology.


    What truly hurts the field is trying to dismiss NiH for a wide variety of possible reasons.


    Quote

    There is only ONE person responsible for all of Rossi's problems, both
    image and working relationship problems.... that is ROSSI himself! Not
    reasonable critics!



    I disagree with the word ALL. Some portion of Rossi's problems could very well be his own. I do not doubt this possibility for a minute. Perhaps, even many of his problems could be his own. But if his technology does really work and has been verified by replications (along with possible upcoming successful replications) yet is being falsely dismissed, that is not just Rossi's problem but a massive problem for the entire LENR community. In that case, a huge travesty is taking place. And this travesty wouldn't be ALL of his own doing IF (big if here) other parties KNOW it is real and are dismissing it falsely.