I found Abd recent blog posting interesting and informative about IH's testing of the empty eCat (mistaking 6 and a 9) and since Abd started this thread, I thought I would include it here:
oldguy
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Posts by oldguy
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perhaps somone who was there can enlighten
I viewed Miles' talk more of a historical background talk instead of a "how to make heat" talk. He spent some time talking about China Lake and the "politics" of the situation. It was about work done some time ago.
I do know that several are now working on getting material made (Pd B) and that they want to get it into hands of people to try using it. Also McKubre should be giving a talk at the up coming Italy meeting on the role of B.
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I think Tom Darden should have learned more about the Doral test from the begining.
The problem is that IH was not even notified that Doral was claimed by Rossi until Aug. Before that it was just Rossi using technology that he had sold to IH for the production and sale of heat. The so called "test" was not on TD's "radar" till very late.
And the heat exchanger was not even claimed till very very late after Rossi's claims of venting and then later massive unrealistic endothermic chemistry at the 1MW levels.
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a65
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Because you or Shane do not know what the other research is, does not mean it does not exist.
You are only speculating that the other research is not worth much.
I believe the $50M was held by IHHI not IH and money was transferred later to cover legal costs as needed. That is one reason Rossi's suit was doomed to fail, IH did not have the money, only receiving some as needed, and positioned to even declare bankruptcy if needed.
I would think the situation is the reverse as you have painted it. Woodford did not invest the larger dollar (pound) amounts until after they had visited all of the researchers IH was supporting at the time and not prior to that just based on Rossi's claims of 1MW. Also they realized it may take years to be ready for commercialization and thus put it in the holding company and not IH itself and now waits for the farther development of that research before turning it over. That is "keeping their powder dry" for those development by the other groups IH has and is funding.
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We’ve invested more than $10 million so far in Rossi’s and other LENAR technology
"other LENAR technology"
and from the same article:
"Rossi’s was one of the first investments we made"
and from the previously mentioned ICCF 19 talk:
We funded two of these groups, and then later, as many of you know, we licensed Andrea Rossi’s technology.
I do not know why you ignore the other investments and research support and the fact that Rossi was not the first item (at least 2 others) and try to push Rossi only investments and that they must have initially invested in LENR before Rossi or raising the rest of the money..
I have greater trust in what IH says and is documented that what you claim.
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It seems to me that the documents show that IH raised capital, but I don't see that, as you claim, that money was due solely on the grounds of Rossi's work. I do see where Rossi claims such things but not where IH says it is so.
In fact the link you gave to IH's answer agrees they raised the money
but denies the rest of paragraph 70 from Rossi's attack that Rossi's claim of " predicated upon their claims that IH and or IPH had "predicated upon their claims that IH and or IPH had acquired Rossi's intellectual property."
So as I read it, yes they raised funds from Woodford, but they did not do so predicated on the acquiring of Rossi's IP. They denied that part of paragraph 70 "Defendants deny the remaining
allegations in Paragraph 70. "
You seem to be falling in the "Rossi says" pitfall, confusing what Rossi says and ignoring what IH denies in their court filings.
Try re-reading IH's answers about paragraph 70.
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7 of 20-
Keep in mind that the link mentions IH in the comments by others and not within the "official" writing of Woodford.
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So, even if Rossi was the only inventor to be mentioned in that speech,
not exactly so, he said: "One day I received a random call about cold fusion. I didn’t give it much credence because I remembered in detail the disclosure about Fleischmann and Pons years before, and I believed the subject was dead. Then thirty days later I received another related inquiry from a different group, so we began to do some research, and then thirty days later, I received a call from another group. We had invested in 100 startup companies and I had never gotten an inquiry about fusion or about LENR: three in 30 day intervals. We funded two of these groups, and then later, as many of you know, we licensed Andrea Rossi’s technology.….We started Industrial Heat because we thought that LENR technology was worth pursuing, even if we were unsuccessful. We were willing to be wrong,....We’re collaborating with and investing alongside fellow researchers and developers...."
He may not have mentioned their names but he did acknowledge them. If you were at the meeting you would have noticed him spending time with D. Letts as well. And even going on tourism trips with him along with Dewey.
and you said "50 M$ invested by Woodford in 2015 in the middle of the Doral test, and when the only assets in the IH portfolio were the Ecat's IP and its License."
How do you know that? Paul and Henry visited several of IH's investment sites during that visits. IH was the last one on their "tour". You seem to think that the initial offering and the investment of Woodford into IH Holdings International. You seem to be confusing IH with IHHI and ignoring all the other investors and the possibility of IH investing in others by debt instruments. It seems that they just might have financed some of the others via debt instruments while the Woodford deals were being struck.
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My understanding (or misunderstanding) from the ICCF discussions in the hallways was that IH had to cut back on some funding due to the Rossi legal expenses for a while but have now started more funding since then. It also seems that Letts and possibly Hagelstein were funded during that period but that is just conjecture by some of the ICCF attendees. I wonder if they could be the two groups funded prior to the later payments to Rossi.
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We funded two of these groups, and then later, as many of you know, we licensed Andrea Rossi’s technology.
Makes me wonder what where the other two groups that they funded prior to the later licensing to Rossi?
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Cyble - the statement about communicator ability is yours not mine and you seem to twist statements about IH funding someone in France to a discussion about the French government not funding LENR.
You use of misdirection is interesting. I can tell you would get along with Rossi who keeps moving from topic to topic, incomplete devices to promises of future devices, from heated factories claimed in patents to working robotic factories manufacturing devices he has abandoned.
It is like nailing Jell-o to a tree.
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notice the comment was "There has never been a Lenr project in France" not there has never been a project funded by France. Those are different things.
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There has never been a Lenr project in France,
That will come to a shock to Jean Paul Biberian who still is the editor of JCMNS and mentioned IH support in his talk and even pursues it in his retirement in his own lab.
no LENR project in France??? even F and P had a multi-million dollar lab there.
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and no new hospital wings for those orphan kids with cancer as promised - just toupees and condos.
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all those researchers at ICCF21...
Yes, it was very impressive to see more than a dozen people up on the stage at the lunch break on Monday for an IH photo op with Tom D. And that did not even include people like Mizuno (not at conference), Fran T and Biberian (who received support in the past and acknowledged it in their talks).---- So refreshing to see George M's students up there. We need more young blood.
A65 often just ignores any evidence that does not support his case.
The bottom line is that IH has and continues to support many researchers.
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Oh yes, Do you think that Rossi would have been given that 1% chance of being real by IH if it had not been for all that work by CF/LENR researchers since 89? That was the convincing part.
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So, as everybody can see from their speeches and announcements, IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, a LENR technology which should have produced reliable energy in the kW to MW range, and the money was collected for the same scope.
Now, as you and others have reported from ICCF21, they are using those money to fund some other CF experiments in the usual mW to W range, typical of the inconclusive CF/LENR activity lasting since 1989.You are wrong. The initial money was not for kW to MW range. The initial investment (as seen in the SEC filings) was south of $12M and for heat production. Later after traveling the to various research groups (of which Rossi was one) , Woodford indicated they would invest around $50M. To my knowledge (limited) most of that still resides in the UK and not directly given to IH but a holding company (see court documents). That money was earmarked for all the various research groups funded by IH. {and no, IH did not get $200M from China for Rossi's ecat as Rossi claimed).
Simply put the money raised was for a range of projects (including those in France, Japan, US,...) which were not at the kW or MW range. To my knowledge, outside of Rossi's wild claims, the highest levels were only on the order of 100W (Mizuno) and almost that for Miley (but very short lived).
I also disagree with your characterization of "inconclusive CF/LENR)" They sure seems conclusive to me with national labs find tritium and neutrons, and major commercial labs (SEI for example) find heat at +5 sigma levels. Also transmutations found in multiple international labs. What in the world is inconclusive about tritium found at LANL by a man (Claytor) tasked with tritium detection at the lab? If that's not "conclusive" that nuclear events are occurring, what is?
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what or who is O-day?
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Rossi's technology was a core element of the initial investment."
notice, a core element, not the one and only core element.
There were clearly others.
I agree with Jed (I do that every now and then). The amount of heat is not too important at this stage. Recall it was not IH that went to 1MW but Rossi and IH was content at the lower sub kW and even lower ranges. IH wanted to keep the power levels lower while checking things. From my talk with them, they are happy at the few watt range. They certainly vocally indicated that they were delighted with the 5 to 10 Watts of Lett's experiment.
There are a lot of even sub watt range applications. Although I think that the "sweet spot" of entry into the field was indicated at the 100 to 5kW range.
It is the signal to noise levels (sigma), and COP that is the critical factor right now, not the power levels . Although they keep an eye on the cost per watt and power density.
and yes, I do believe that "millions invested" could be justified from sporadic low level results - proof to the point- the dozen million + Tex Tech has received............ and who know how much more has since been added with little result (or so it has be claimed) .
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In any case, as I said, there are now other sources of funding.
yes, for those that were not there- take note that people like Carl Page (one of the google brothers) was there - taking some of the younger researchers out for beer.
