Really, IHFB? So you're citing Wyttenbach's second-hand intepretation of Anesser's highly biased assessment (Annesser being Rossi's LAWYER, has no technical training related to physics, thermodynamics, flowmeters, etc.), as being authoritative and the basis for your argument against the flow meter error and of the DN40 story? Even though Wyttenbach gave no evidence for asserting that Murray sourced the "DN40 story"?
sigmoidal
Member
- Member since Oct 31st 2016
Posts by sigmoidal
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Absolutely agree. Yours is certainty that it doesn't work. Mine is an open mind that it might.
Hi IHFB, in all sincerity, good to have you back. Keep the faith, baby!
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But why? Those niggly lingering doubts old friend. It will all be out soon enough.
Hey IHFB, good to hear from you. You're right, I stand convicted. There's something about it all that can draw me in. Which is probably why we're all here. Except YOU, stranger!
But here you are too, friend!
But regarding "it will all be out soon enough", I wonder how long is "too long" for you IF there continues to be no credible evidence of any customers, given that Rossi has claimed he is "open for business selling heat" (controlled over the internet from his condo headquarters in Miami) with his E-Skat?
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Well, that was exactly what he did in the Doral plant. It's described in the Cassarino file. It seems to me IH definitely thought they were showing a working device? Otherwise I guess they would be guilty of defrauding Woodford, right? Not being able to replicate without the help of Rossi it is a total different story. (although maybe Brilluoin could be considered a replication by now of the original design) I do not doubt they had problems doing that due to both lack of tech competence (being mainly finance guys) and due to the possible Flintstone factor. Also I do believe you seriously underestimate the difficulties in raising this kind of money for a project like this.
IH
What makes you think "IH definitely thought they were showing a working device"? I've read all the deposition documents (which in retrospect is somewhat pathetic and embarrasing). Rossi had already previously denied IH access to their own E-Cat in Doral (in violation of the "Rental Agreement"). Do you not think it likely, based on the fact that Darden testified that they never saw over-unity in NC and was reluctant to let Rossi move it to Doral, that he was skeptical? Does it not make sense to you that he likely voiced those concerns to Woodford? And does it not make sense to you that visiting Doral would be a prudent thing to do if Darden and Woodford had millions invested in this technology but thought that Rossi was trying to pull a fast one on them?
Jtomas: "Otherwise ... they would be guilty of defrauding Woodford, right?"
No, only in your preconceived but confused thinking. Woodford had already invested $50M. This is important. They had a vested interest in finding out what Rossi was up to in Doral, as did IH (who owned the E-Cat). How do you conclude that by visiting Doral, IH would be guilty of defrauding Woodford when they had already invested? That idea might makes sense if IH was trying to get Woodford to invest more money. But there's no evidence from Cassarino or anywhere else in the court documents that IH was trying to do that.
jtomas: I do believe you seriously underestimate the difficulties in raising this kind of money for a project like this.
Believe what you want. You don't spend most of your time hanging around high net worth individuals and VC firms. Darden does. If he had compelling evidence from Rossi, he would have no problem raising that money. In fact, IH already has more than 100 million now according to filings. So again, you're just making that up.
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[Court documents]
Thank you for admitting that the court documents do NOT show that "IH did want Rossi to believe that there was a test going on".
Now we know, based on your own inability to provide evidence, that you just made that statement up. And we can reasonably conclude that this is because it fits with your preconceived idea that their visit was to make Rossi believe that there was a TEST going on, even though that is nowhere stated.
But what the excerpt you provided shows is that they thought Rossi was difficult to deal with, and that they didn't want to set him off.
It is also a fact that Rossi had previously denied IH access to the E-Cat, in breach of the Rental Agreement, which likely explains why they would not want to set him off.
We also now know that you have difficulty separating facts from preconceived notions, at least with regards to Rossi's Doral scam.
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Well. It's a fact though that IH did want Rossi to believe that there was a test going on when Woodford visited the plant several months into the test.
Actually no, having extensive review of the court documents, I am not aware that that's a fact. It's a fact that Darden testified that before Rossi and E-Cat went to Doral, neither he nor Rossi could demonstrate any excess heat. It's also a fact that he testified that he reluctantly let Rossi move the E-Cat to Doral, mainly because he thought just maybe Johnson Matthey really needed heat for creating platinum sponge. It's a fact that Johnson Matthey was not the customer. Its a fact that Rossi repeatedly claimed that he had a "satisfied customer" on his fake journal website JONP, but that the "satisfied customer" was actually Rossi himself. It's a fact that Woodford had invested $50M prior to the Doral visit. And it's a fact that IH and Woodford visited the plant.
Please show from the court documents the evidence to support your "fact" that "IH did want Rossi to believe that there was a test going on", versus the likely explanation that IH and Woodford wanted to see what was really going on in Doral.
Another fact from the court documents does show that Rossi wanted Bass to show up as the "Chief Engineer" as investors came to visit, and then coached his fake "chief engineer", who had no actual role as a "chief engineer" for a real customer, on what to say to investors. So what we know is that Rossi wanted to show potential investors that there was a real independent "satisfied customer" when there really wasn't. Which is fraudulent.
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With the low pressure head (less than 2 bars) the pumps could do that. See my experiments.Alan, I appreciate that you did your experiments, and that if you push all the pumps to limits outside of their documented range, it might be possible, based on a degraded old pump, to meet the flow rate. Which is rather obviously not how anyone would reasonably design a system if they needed to have precise regulation of flow. Which was the point, and which I had already stated in my post previous to that one:
"complete with dosimetric pumps that look cool with their digital readouts but whose precise measuring capability was useless with flow rates required of an actual working device"
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Do you agree that IH was happy to show Woodford the plant and take their money the way Cassarino describes it?
Please show, from the court documents, what you mean by "take their money the way Cassarino describes it". Cassarino did not state or even imply that there was some sort of nefarious motive by IH to take Woodford's money.
The whole point of creating IH was to provide an investment vehicle for investors wanting exposure to high risk, high reward novel clean energy technologies.
What's your point? It seems to be that IH (basically Darden), is evil. Who knows, maybe Darden really is "evil". But there's nothing in Cassarino's testimony that states or implies that.
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Well, that was exactly what he did in the Doral plant. It's described in the Cassarino file. It seems to me IH definitely thought they were showing a working device? Otherwise I guess they would be guilty of defrauding Woodford, right? Not being able to replicate without the help of Rossi it is a total different story. (although maybe Brilluoin could be considered a replication by now of the original design) I do not doubt they had problems doing that due to both lack of tech competence (being mainly finance guys) and due to the possible Flintstone factor. Also I do believe you seriously underestimate the difficulties in raising this kind of money for a project like this.
IH
Rossi clearly showed that he had nothing in Doral. His pumps could not supply the circulation to meet his claimed heat, he had no mechanism for venting the heat unless you believe his fairy tale imaginary mezzanine heat exchanger story (that supposedly vented out a closed glass side window). That's the story he came up with 1 year after the "test" (most likely because Jed kept hammering that point here on LENR, which we know Rossi reads) and that he then claimed "disappeared" a day after the fraudulent 350 day "test" was complete once pictures showed no such thing existed the day after the test. Are you blind?
And regarding financing Woodford had already chipped in $50M, according to corporate filings. Woodford put that in without evidence, presumably on Darden's word. You think that if IH had reasonable evidence of success that they would have had a hard time coming up with the balance? If so, you know nothing about VC financing.
BTW, notice that Woodford, to this day, has not lost their investment, despite Rossi's scam. Darden ate the $10M personally.
Not sure who ate the IH legal fees, but it wouldn't surprise me if Darden paid those too.
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Nope. It is obvious that they (1) considered the contract to be invalid (missing signatures, time line, six cylinder cats, etc, etc) so that they were not obliged to pay - or that it at least was negotiable, and (2) they wanted Rossi keep working to not disturb investors ("create waves" as Cassarino says), as if was going to get paid. They wanted Rossi to have that illusion. Also it looks as if (3) - they were not able to raise enough money anyways
"Also it looks as if (3) - they were not able to raise enough money anyways"
There you go making stuff up again. Your ignorance betrays you. IH's parent had hundreds of millions available. IH was set up as a "one-way" money valve to protect the parent corp's assets. This is normal corporate practice. To not set it up this way would essentially be malpractice. If Rossi actually had excess heat with COP of 2, let alone the contractually required COP of 6, they would have had no problem financing the $89M.
Since they did not have all of the sauce they needed Rossi to continue and they needed the plant as a marketing tool to raise money.
The contract clearly stated that Rossi had to give them all of the technology necessary for successful operation. Not providing the "secret sauce" would be breach of contract by Rossi.
Of course we now know there was no customer, no excess heat. Rossi just made up super secret Johnson Matthew (sic, mis-spelled on letterhead!) "customer". It seems he didn't like the scrutiny he was getting in NC as his perpetual fraud was starting to unravel.
There was instead, at Doral, a ridiculous "super secret" shipping container hidden behind an 8 foot plywood curtain with a crude "heat exchanger" inside it (a rack of serpentine pipes), complete with electrical resistive heating strips on the pipes, a cheap Grundfos circulation pump, no product or production, no workers, no control systems, an open to the air circulation (so low pressure) between the fraudulent "reactor" (complete with dosimetric pumps that look cool with their digital readouts but whose precise measuring capability was useless with flow rates required of an actual working device) and the fraudulent "super secret customer-side" container, (all of this stated under oath by Rossi or shown in pictures obtained through deposition).
So whatever "secret sauce" formula he provided to Darden (and he claimed he did provide that) was a hoax.
I would think that the pictures of the rusting E-Cat sitting in the Doral parking lot after the Doral scam, the Stockholm scam (with video showing Il Dottore secretively flipping a switch), and E-Skat scam with the ridiculous excuse for a "demonstration" just presented, coupled with decades of previous fraudulent projects would be enough to convince anyone that Rossi never has had anything to sell but a pack of lies.
But, here we are.
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Nope. They never intended to which is obvious when reading the Cassarino file.
I've read that file multiple times, once recently when Shane D. reposted, and previously at the time of release. There is nothing in that file saying IH "never intended to pay" if it worked. You made that up. Or if you insist that this is true, provide the quote(s).
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That's a pretty good idea. I'll invite you over there lickety split.
https://disqus.com/home/channel/coldfusion/
I'm sure you'll make a swell contributor.
It's interesting that you consider that a channel for discussion. You have one post from two years ago with no comments. Is that because you moderated all the comments that didn't meet your moderation standards, or is it merely that nobody found your post worth responding to?
Personally, I find your comments to be caustic, obnoxious, foolish, intellectually vacuous, and a waste of time. But maybe that's due to some personality deficit I have. Fortunately this site provides the ability for individuals to block other individuals. Although I rarely do this, I've made an exception in your case.
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THAT is doing your job. Leaving it to the insulted party to weed out insults into the response to keep it civil doesn't work anywhere, especially when all responses (even polite ones) get shunted to a Clearance Items thread without notice.
Since you are convinced that the moderators here are duplicitous and not doing their job, and that their approach "doesn't work anywhere", would it not make more sense for you to find another place to post, or alternatively, use your moderating talent at a site that's more open to your more enlightened approach, especially since they have indicated that they have no intention of taking your advice?
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The bottom line was that all the important parameters of the SK were provided. The controller uses 380 W, the output is 21.9 kW. The calculated COP was 57 and confirmed by looking at the heat consumed in heating the building.
The SK is available now with a delivery in only weeks.
So, AA, if for the sake of argument we take Rossi at his word and "all the important parameters of the SK were provided", would you agree that anyone with adequate initial capital should be able to make money with SK, correct? They can buy heat from the SK and sell it to those who need it at a discount, or use it directly. For example, commercial laundry facilities, food processing companies, chemical refineries and many other industrial companies that use heat as part of their process. And since "delivery is in only weeks", we should expect at least a dozen forward thinking entrepreneurs will take advantage of Rossi's discounted heat generation over the next few months.
So my sincere question to you is, how long will you continue to believe that Rossi has a working SK product if in fact there is no verifiable or credible evidence that Rossi has an actual customer? Three months? Six months? One year? Two years? Indefinitely?
I ask because as someone who is coming from a very different perspective, I'm trying to understand more specifically what you mean when you say that you are not yet certain that Rossi has what he says he has.
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Display More
I have posted links on ECat World from Lenr Forum so anyone that
puts in an effort can soon find the
skeptic comments.
I have commented that the skeptics
could be right that Rossi has nothing.
But I am still a believer.Think a lot
about your point on Energy in Energy
out comments.
Talk after the demo R67.
Sam, as a believer, did the ending with puppets singing "I believe in the SK" increase or decrease your belief in the SK?
(Sincere question - I'm interested in your thoughts given your perspective heading into this demo)
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Judging by the balerrine jokes, Dottore has vivid imagination.
It will be very hard for all of us to separate his imaginary statements from the facts.
Actual exchange:
Question: Does the ballerina start dancing immediately?
Rossi: No, the ballerina needs time to stretch her legs. [some chuckling in the background]
What a waste of time and energy.
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How did The Godfather get invited to present at Il Dottore's demo?
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I wonder how much support Andrea Rossi will have to lose before he wakes up to the fact that he cannot bring this product to the world on his own.
I wonder how much longer before Rossi supporters will wake up to the fact that he has never had a working product to bring to the world, on his own or otherwise.
I do sincerely wonder.
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There is no way this will be the end of the story. The demo will show nothing but will be a masterpiece to his followers. Each of his demos has become increasingly less convincing yet the legend lives on for the religious.
Exactly. Rossi's greatest skill has been his ability to surf the edge of plausible deniability. Which makes sense if you are trying to survive as a con man and have no actual working technology (even his US patent is just for show: it has nothing to do with LENR, an over-unity device, or anything of actual use).
But he is highly skilled at using his substantial PR skills to captivate some people's imagination. They may suspect he likely is a con, but he keeps putting on enough of a show, whether in Italy, US army thermoelectric scam, Doral, Stockholm, and now this video demonstration from who knows where in the US (one of his condos?), to titillate the gullible into plausible deniability. For them, these staged demos gives them some glimmer of hope that he has something other than crudely staged tricks from a premeditating, intentionally deceptive con man.
So surf's up! It's interesting to see what sort of freestyle tricks Il Dottore will attempt to pull off tomorrow to titillate the gullible.
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I think the QX or SK does many things of value. Perhaps the simplest is that it agitates lithium and hydrogen ions by producing current oscillations. When they impact, good stuff happens. This has been done before.
Well, there you go. Easy peasy. Replicate away. Then good stuff for humanity. Clean cheap energy for everyone. Extra money to help fund kids with cancer. Why are we even waiting for Rossi's demo?
