How do you know IH didn't object to the first reports? I think it is incorrect to claim that IH have accepted the Penon report. That fact that IH didn't complain in public doesn't automatically mean they accepted.
The fact that there is a report number 2 means that Penon has not received any complaints about the number one report, otherwise I think the relationship would have stopped earlier. Moreover, as far as I know, Penon has been paid regularly for his work.
SSC. Speculation is all very well. But in this case, because of Discovery, we KNOW you are wrong. They had Dameron - not competent to check. They relied on Fulvio (not independent) and the various external independent tests which turn out also not to be independent.
We agree on this. In fact I said that IH should have assumed Murray right away. This would have been a "due diligence" and would not made Rossi suspect.
So what if the principles of Cherokee are slimeballs (AKA excellent bisiness men), does that make Rossi any more honest or moral?
All you pure innocent souls hereabout, the real world is just too intense for you'll.
Every day someone somewhere reviews about Rossi's past vicissitudes treating him as a criminal. This is profoundly wrong, as Rossi was absolved and reimbursed by the Italian state. On the past of IH / Cherokee, however, no one seems to want to investigate. Nobody is interested in knowing if IH has any skeleton in the closet. Well, as long as there are people who do look at the past of a party, I'll be looking at the past of the other.
What is your source to the statement that IH accepted the report. I have not seen any such acceptance from IH.
It does not seem to me that objections have been raised to the first three reports he has provided. I would say that at least three have been accepted.
Also, for those of you who want to know who I am, my name is Howard Michael Appel, California state bar no. 158674. I post on and am a member of the The Fogbow and Quatloos, as well as too many to count woodworking forums.
Welcome Mr Appel. Just for curiosity, what leads a lawyer to read the LENR Forum? Are you interested in cold fusion or in general in alternative sources of energy? How did you find the dispute between IH and Rossi?
From what I see, Cherokee was trying to do some good for the environment unlike AR's pollution history. But in true form, AR and extremely-similar-thinking individuals (e.g., ele) accuse others of doing what he does.
I do not think that Cherokee was trying to do some good for the environment ..... Leanne seems rather knowledgeable and paints a different picture. Let's wait to see if she discovers other things .....
This article: http://richmondconfidential.or…y-lot-still-a-toxic-stew/ covers the story up until 2009. The story hardly mentions them as they were not the ones who polluted the site. Cherokee bought the property in 2002, well after Zeneca's remediation started in 1997. The remediation was deemed unsatisfactory, and it looks like Cherokee got stuck with a worthless land investment as a result.
Cherokee has bought the lots with the task of completing the remediation started by Zeneca and then build over that land. If there is a citizen committee complaining that the job has not been done it means that Cherokee did not carry out the planned remediation, otherwise there would not be cases of cancer. Moreover if Cherokee received funding from the taxpayers, obviously it was not just to have the permission of building houses! It is evident that Cherokee was supposed to finish the job started by Zeneca,so they are involved in the damage.
A second IH problem was complacency. They reckoned, because the 1 year test so clearly did not comply with the legal terms of the GPT, and Rossi asked for it as a customer demo, not a GPT, they were in the clear.
This is not a matter of complacency. If things really were so, IH would be composed by incompetent people. You can not leave important things implied when talking about millions of dollars (among other things, money from others). IH knew from the start that Rossi considered Doral's test to be GPT but they overlooked it.
Can you see the problem with this? Are you suggesting IH should never check Rossi's tests?
Not at all. I think IH would had to hire a competent engineer right away because a fact is asking investors to give money for a risky process, and another is asking them to jump in the dark. But I understand Rossi's reaction, his lack of trust in Murray's good faith. In a first moment IH trusts him and says the reactors made by them work, then when the end of the test (and therefore the payment) gets closer, IH begins to hire new staff and become less friendly. If you want to be scrupulous and rigorous, you have to do it from day one. If you do it approaching to the end, your attitude becomes suspicious.
So, yes, I expect that their individual projects will sometimes fail, and lose money for all investors. When they fail the mess they were in business to remediate will often still remain.
What is so difficult to understand?
I'd expect many of their projects to fail - given the risk - but I notice you have found only one?
So IH is not made up by VCs but by bettors? Does their "due diligence" consist in pulling the die and wager the money of investors?
A grand total of NOBODY, ever once, has even remotely suggested that Darden was any kind of savior,
So why did you write that?
You have short memory, and I have no desire to resume the examples among hundreds of old posts. But already on this page you can read Jack Cole saying "Cherokee was trying to do some good for the environment" and THH saying "Except that IH have no legal connection to Cherokee - they are a pet altruistic and clearly money-losing project of The Cherokee founders ". At least you should suspect that someone sees a halo on Darden's head.
Rossc, this kind of blows your narrative that IH did not tell AR about any problems until after the third PRV (puppet responsible for verification) report.
Not at all. Rossi began collaborating with Dameron and initially had positive news from JT, who said that IH had successfully replicated the reactor. Then one day he receives an email from the same JT that says "We hired a new engineer, he will visit the Plant." Why they introduce a new and unknown person? The first successes were not convincing enough? This has generated suspicion and the consequent lack of collaboration.
He had a contractual obligation to "give custody" of his secrets to anyone at I.H. He had no right to decide who within I.H. he taught the secrets to; he had to teach them to any employee I.H. designated.
If, as you say, he did not do this, then he failed to fulfill the contract. So he should not be paid the $89 million. You apparently think I.H. should have paid him. Yet here you say he did not fulfill the contract. Which is it? You cannot have it both ways. If he did not teach Murray the secrets, he should not be paid.
Murray arrived late, when the relationship between Rossi and Darden had already deteriorated. I have said several times that I believe that Rossi has correctly transmitted the IP to IH and that IH has created functioning reactors. JT's emails confirm it. Rossi collaborated with Dameron, Murray came on stage later, when there was already no confidence on both sides. So I do not think that Rossi did not fulfill the contract: when Murray tried to replicate the E-Cat, for Rossi the contract was already at risk because he was at this point certain that IH did not intend to pay.
The remediation was deemed unsatisfactory, and it looks like Cherokee got stuck with a worthless land investment as a result.
Do you really believe that Darden and his associates are so unprepared to bump into bad business so frequently?
As always our friend is a "man of few words", but he confirms what reported here from Ele. Many people do not miss the opportunity to remind us that Rossi had problems with Justice in the past (always omitting that he has been absolved of everything). When, however, they discover something about the counterpart's past, they are the first to talk about "mud" and to say that the others are lying. Accept it: Darden is not the savior of humanity like many think.
I am sure he has the condos picked out already.
And he would do well ........In times of crisis, real estate is a great and safe investment! 
The issue is whether Rossi wanted $89M and to win the Court case. He has to show that he has transferred IP and therefore that his reactors work. But, then, no doubt you will tell me Rossi behaves irrationally and I'd agree...
Sure, but if he do not trust Murray's impartiality, it makes no sense that he give to Murray himself the custody of his secrets. When a relationship deteriorates, the first thing that disappears is trust, and this is on both sides. I believe that Rossi is convinced of winning even without Murray's copy-Ecat, and I think he made a good choice not relying on the counterpart to achieve his goal.
I had high hopes that I.H. would fund research. I think they would have, but they have been derailed by the lawsuit. They fired the technical staff. They may be funding a few studies, but I doubt they will contribute significant amounts of money. That is why I say Rossi destroyed the last, best hope for cold fusion.
IH's supporters have often written that Rossi is not the most important character among those who are gravitating around IH, since IH has a large portfolio whose members are the protagonists of the LENR scene. Now I read "they may be funding a few studies" ... and Brillouin? And La Gatta? Your comment doesn't make sense...
They "talk"? Friend, if "talk" meant anything, we would have been heating our homes with Ecats since 2012...
I was referring to a news just arrived from the Asti conference. As long as there are no other scientists who will replicate that experiment, we can not use a term other than "they talk".
It is quite clear that Murray was asking questions looking for answers, and a working e-cat tested by Murray would be a very convincing answer both for IH before the test end and for the Court now. Or, if Murray would not cooperate, just the recorded fact that Rossi had offered this would count strongly in his favour.
When Murray came into play (and especially when he tried to replicate the E-cat) the relationship between Rossi and Darden was already compromised. If you do not trust one person anymore, you begin to doubt about every gesture of him, so certainly you do not help him or a friend of him: Rossi would have never help Murray in his job.
