Posts by SSC

Quote from IH Fanboy

This is what Rossi said about Murray:

"About the meeting of Tuesday, you obviously can come when you want, while Joe Murray cannot enter in the factory of JM because, as I have explained to Tom during the visit with Brian Mc Laughlin, I do not allow anybody, except for the personnel already reciprocally authorized, to approach the plant before the tests on course will have been completed."

I can sort of understand Rossi's position. An apparent APCO guy (Brian McLaughlin) had already visited Doral with Darden, and I think the spidey-sense in Rossi was probably elevated--that a sabotage was possibly underway.

"except for the personnel already reciprocally authorized": if this was the agreement, there is no reason to complain about the fact that Murray was not allowed to enter the Plant.

Quote from Shane D.

So it sounds like IH may have wondered if the problem with replicating the Ecat in NC was due Dameron, so hired Murray to "elevate the level of IH's testing and evaluation". As it turned out though, Murray was no more successful than Dameron.

Very interesting......Dameron was the chief engineer of IH and was the man who defined himself as the co-inventor with Rossi of the application "Energy-producing reaction devices, systems and related methods" (by the way, he sold his right to IPH International B.V. in the same period in which IH declared to the world that the Ecat was a fake.....).
In spite of this, IH have felt the need of hiring another guy in order to "elevate the level of testing", and so they called an expert. Expert of what? Of "system architecture development, digital signal and image processing, software development, systems engineering, acquisition planning and program management" (http://ultra-3pi.com/about-us/joseph-murray/). What an elevation!!

IHFB is right, Barry West was an IH guy and he stayed in the Plant every day with Fabiani.
They both was paid by IH. Even if some of you think that Fabiani was a Rossi's friend, I don't think that West was there just to keep company with Fabiani....
So the only person who wasn't allowed to enter the Plant was Murray, a newly hired , a stranger.
The chief engineer in IH was Thomas Baker Dameron, Murray was employed after the beginning of the test, and I still don't know why they sent him to Doral, instead of a person known by Rossi.I also disagree with Jed when he says "From a scientific or engineering point of view, there is no reason to make it 1-year. A few hours or a week would be better by far."
Rossi was testing a new technology, for which there is not even a theoretical explanation. How can you ask someone 89M dollars for a thing that you don't even know if it lasts for two weeks? If you want to sell an item that could become a revolutionary source of energy, you must first of all know its limits and its life.

Quote from IH Fanboy

MrSelfSustain wrote:
Basically, I'm all but convinced JM Products Inc. was never a subsidiary of Johnson Matthey.

I never thought it was. The header on the request for invoice never stated that. Rossi always denied that it was.

That's true. Just an example from the JONP:
“Andrea RossiApril 24, 2016 at 4:22 PMHank Mills:
Your comment contains a big mistake: Johnson Matthey has nothing to do with us.
We bought from them some materials but that is all.
Please do not diffuse false information
.No further comments.
Warm RegardsA.R.”

Quote from Wyttenbach

Document 90 is a very detailed and in-depth worded listing of IH failures to show any evidence of their claims. To counter this, they (IH) will have to spend some additional 100k $ or simple declare bankruptcy...

Most of the people here say that IH have showed "so many evidences"......but where are those evidences? I have seen a lot of accusations, nothing more.
Did they prove that:"JMP, Leonardo, Rossi, Johnson, Fabiani and Bass knew that there was no secretive manufacturingprocess taking place and JMP had no real use for the steam power."
"Leonardo, Rossi, JMP, Johnson, USQL, Fabiani, and Bass also restricted access to the JMP area at the Doral location, claiming that there was a secretive manufacturing process being conducted there, when in fact it was simply recycling steam from the Plant and sending it back to the Plant as water.""
(Defendants engaged in the unconscionable, unfair, and deceptive acts and practices described above, including:)Manipulating the operation of the Plant and the measurements of the Plant’s operations to create the false impression and appearance that it was producing a COP far in excess of the COP it was in fact achieving.
"Nothing more than "IH says", accusations without a shred of evidence.Moreover, when they say "Fabiani, USQL and Penon also played critical roles in the scheme to hide the fact that the Plant does not perform up to the standards set forth in the License Agreement" aren't they saying that the test was the one considered in the License Agreement? Isn't it the GPT?

Quote from Hermes

What is interesting here is that there is no attempt to deny that JMP had no use for the energy supplied and consequently they will need to explain why they paid for it if not as part of a conspiracy to defraud.

Who paid who? IH says they never received money for their invoices.....

Quote from oldguy

Why do you keep saying that IH did not say a word before the suit?
I would ask you as why didn't Rossi say he was considering the testing in FL the QPT until fall of 2015?

I can't believe IH was so naive, I think it's really impossible that they did not get things straight with Rossi from the beginning of the test.
They were waiting for a specific kind of test, they were informed about the beginning of the Doral test and they never asked to Rossi if that test was the GPT? Do I have to think they are fool?! No Sir, I don't think so....

Quote from Hermes

No I don't think that at all. If you sell the exclusive rights then the recipient of those rights can dispose of them as they wish and you have no further right to interfere. You cannot tranfer exclusive IP rights, accept payment, and also maintain undiclosed secrets.

Quote from Shane D.

Rossi admitted to the court that he gave IH all his secrets in June 2013, after they paid him the $10 million. From that point on, Rossi had no more secrets to protect...Right? Making his excuse for denying Murray access "to protect his secrets" pretty lame.

As far as I know, IH were granted certain territorial rights in a license, as IH Fanboys has clarified.
During the test in Doral, Rossi still kept the exclusive license for the other part of the world, so he had all the reasons and the right to protect his secrets from the eyes of a visitor who was a stranger for him (and Murray was a stranger!).

Quote from oldguy

If you were told that something was just a test of power supplied to a customer of your licensed technology and were given reports as such, why would you have reason to complain? You would only complain when you were told later that you consider it something else.

I don't know why "IH says" must be more credible than "Rossi says".....I really find absurd what IH says about the Doral test, I don't believe they didn't consider that the test was the GPT from the very first moment.
There was an agreement between Rossi and IH: according to that agreement there should have been a GPT, so we can surely say that IH was waiting for that kind of test.
Then Rossi propose and sets up a test. Now, there are two cases: either Rossi started the test saying it was NOT the GPT, but eventually changed his mind, or IH has never asked Rossi if the current one was the GPT.
The first case may not have occurred: otherwise IH would certainly have said this thing in the counter-suit. The second case, however, seems to me much more likely, and suggests that immediately IH wanted to take advantage of the test only to raise money but they did not ever want to pay (and in fact they finally said "this is not the planned test").

Quote from oldguy

If you were told that something was just a test of power supplied to a customer of your licensed technology and were given reports as such, why would you have reason to complain? You would only complain when you were told later that you consider it something else.

I don't know why "IH says" must be more credible than "Rossi says".....I really find absurd what IH says about the Doral test, I don't believe they didn't consider that the test was the GPT from the very first moment.
There was an agreement between Rossi and IH: according to that agreement there should have been a GPT, so we can surely say that IH was waiting for that kind of test.
Then Rossi propose and sets up a test. Now, there are two cases: either Rossi started the test saying it was NOT the GPT, but eventually changed his mind, or IH has never asked Rossi if the current one was the GPT.
The first case may not have occurred: otherwise IH would certainly have said this thing in the counter-suit. The second case, however, seems to me much more likely, and suggests that immediately IH wanted to take advantage of the test only to raise money but they did not ever want to pay (and in fact they finally said "this is not the planned test").

Quote from Bob

Then the question will be if IH pursues the counter claim of fraud. I expect they will. They have shown evidence of fraud (no customer, no production, presented sale of heat subverted to the GPT, etc. ) and probably have not revealed a fraction of what they may have.

If IH did not consider the test the real GPT and did not take money from Bass, I can understand why now they say that they have not to pay for that (even if I don't believe them). But why the counter-suit? In which way have they been cheated? On the other hand, if they think the test was the GPT, they could say that Rossi did not respect the established procedure and therefore a counter-suit become a logical move. But they have to admit this was the GPT.....

Quote from Hermes

In the unlikely event that Murray was a spy it's entirely IH's responsability. So Rossi was not authorized and had no incentive to exclude him if he (Rossi) were acting honestly. I leave it to intelligent readers to work it out for themselves why Rossi wanted to exclude Murray.

So you think that even if I suspect that a man could damage my work revealing secrets to others, I have to let him do what he wants if I could say "someone else has the responsability for what happened"!
Sorry, but I believe that everyone wants to protect himself. As far as I know, the chief engineer in IH was Thomas Baker Dameron, whereas Murray was employed after the beginning of the test. Why they didn't send Dameron to Doral? Why Rossi should have let a stranger enter the Plant instead of the one he used to know?
Maybe Murray is an expert, but his specialist subject is "system architecture development, digital signal and image processing, software development, systems engineering, acquisition planning and program management" as you can read from this link:http://ultra-3pi.com/about-us/joseph-murray/
Maybe Rossi wanted to exclude him because he found the whole story a little bit too strange.......

Quote from oldguy

Perhaps the reason that IH has not presented the report and data is that theyn ever got it, at least then the suit was filed.

IH accepted the first three reports of the ERV during the 10 months of test from Feb 2015 to Dec 2016, and have paid the ERV for the same reports. If they considered them just garbage, they should have complained before the last report.
Fabiani worked for IH and he send them his data. They say that he didn't send his data only the last time they asked for them, but what about the other times? They did not say a word about his work, all was good for them before the suit.

In this thread we leave comments about the JONP, so I want to remind you this old post:
"July 8, 2013 at 10:25 PMAND HERE IS AN UPDATE OF TODAY, JULY 8TH:
The past three days have been holidays for most, but for us have been a tremendous period of work during which we made a historic page for what concerns our tech:
for the first time, an E-Cat module, entirely produced by our USA Partner in the new factory ( a magnificence), charged with the charge made by the Partner’s CEO, using the materials we teached to buy, prepare,manipulate, treat, to make the charges, assembled , insulated, has started its operation, and the results are the same of the E-Cats built by us.
This event means that for the first time an E-Cat not built by me, not controlled by me and not charged by me, not tested in my factory, but manufactured from third parties upon our instructions and know how has worked properly.
This is the first unit of the plant that will give to the factory of our USA Partner all its necessary thermal energy, and is also the school ship for the employees.
It is very important that it has been completely made by the Customer, not by me: it is the first of millions, but the first is always special.
We celebrated with Coca Cola ( alcohol is forbidden in that factory). All the former plants, even if built in the USA, had been supplied with reactors cores made by me, so this is a very important step.
3- Technological development can require a long process, involving many changes as a technology moves forward.
E-Cat is undergoing that process now. This process will continue as long as needed, until such time as the team believes the technology is able to fulfill its promise in commercial settings.
4- E-Cat is still also in a phase of R&D, as I continue this work more findings will be released and additional technical information will be provided once practicable. As I focus on continuing my research, I will not be able to respond to each specific question.

Warm Regards,A.R."

Do you really think that Darden&Co. didn't read Rossi's blog? In July they agreed to let this information be public, and then when they have to defend themselves from Rossi's accusation they say that no reactor have never worked??

So why they didn't say a word before the suit? Why they showed the plant to investors if they did not believe it could work?

Quote from THHuxley

Rossi has conducted public demos whenever he wants to energise fans, or gain new ones (and also possibly when he needs to convince investors).

Rossi doesn't need to convince investors. Instead IH had this need.
Indeed they used the plant in Doral as a show room for their rich friends, and they collected a lot of money in this way. They began to complain about the test only when the time to pay had come for them.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

Rossibit - culture of threat and fear only exists on Planet Rossi where it is part of the food supply.
The rest of your trolling speaks for itself.

Take a pill for your gastritis....you seem a little bit too acidic
Culture of fear?! Have you ever been threatened?
Why do you think that every point of view different from your should belong to what you call "Planet Rossi"? This is hypocrisy or paranoia......

Quote from Alan Smith

I see no objection at all to using the term to describe the testing of a control in a scientific test.

A dummy reactor could be useful when you have to calibrate your instruments, before making any kind of measure. After that, it becomes unnecessary, especially if your reactor has a very high COP.

Quote from JedRothwell

I do not think they were getting payments. JMP asked them to send invoices, but they did not. That's what I have heard, anyway. (Append: Ah, yes. As Abd noted, Dewey said that here. That's where I heard it.)

According to you, IH did not consider the test as the real GPT, but just a way to get money from the investors and from Bass. In spite of this, they didn't collect money from him..... Really funny

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

SSC, you are not looking at the various possible meanings of words, but picking a meaning that you think preposterous. And it would be. "Immediately" meant "as soon as Rossi mentioned "GPT." Not from the beginning of the "test."

So IH was waiting for a GPT, Rossi suggested a test in Florida and IH did not even try to ask him if this was the GPT or when he wanted to begin the real GPT after that test?
If so, IH had a very ambiguous attitude......They paid because:They did not have an independent engineering view yet (as soon as they did, they objected).Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember that the chief engineer in IH was Thomas Baker Dameron, whereas Murray was employed after the beginning of the test.
Why they didn't send Dameron to Doral? You always say that Rossi is paranoid, so you can understand quite easily how difficult it is for a person like him to let a stranger enter the Plant instead of the one he used to know.
This is what Rossi wanted, and their determined strategy was to give Rossi what he wanted "within reason."
This idea that IH indulged Rossi as you do with the insane is simply ridiculous.....Darden and Vaughn are business men, not nurses.
The Murray letter was not about the fourth report, but the about first three preliminary reports and what he saw when he was finally able to visit the plant.

Darden and Vaughn were able to visit the plant in every moment, but they sent Murray (newly hired) after months: they could send an engineer from the very first moments, instead of showing the plant first to investors and then to an engineer! If a car salesman shows a car to a customer, and THEN asks the mechanic if that car works, isn't he dishonest?

IH paid two persons (Fabiani and West) to stay in the plant: didn't them inform IH about what's going on? If things are so absurd as Dewey keep on telling us, why they did not report these facts??

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

By February, we know that IH and Rossi would communicating through attorneys. (Contradicting the Rossifiction in March that there was no problem with IH. The man lies, can you get that?)

Maybe his attorney suggested this attitude.....can you get that?

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

Remember, my operating hypothesis is that Rossi is insane, not balanced, so the "he'd realize X" argument can easily fail.

Probably that's the reason why you look so biased when you try to give an interpretation of things happened to him.

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

Perhaps merely incompletely informed. There was nothing to "say" until Rossi claimed it was a GPT. As far as we know, they may have objected immediately.

I think it's quite hard to believe. If they had immediately objected, the test would not even begun. Rossi says that IH have paid for three reports, written by Penon. If you trust this, can you explain the reason why they did? They found so many problems in the fourth report and none in the others? It's just a question of points of view. You find this scenario more probable:"His first goal was just to get the plant in action. But then he wanted Penon to measure it. At this point the idea formed to make this a GPT, it might not have been the original plan -- or it was. But he know that if he said "GPT," it would spook IH and they probably wouldn't let him install the plant there. So he kept quiet about it. However, he did what he could to set up the Penon protocol to look like the GPT, thinking that later he could claim it was, and by this point he had forgotten all about the legal requirements. He wasn't good with those picky details, this goes back to Italy and his troubles there. The idea that this was a GPT became so strong in his mind that he forgot he was dealing with other people, with different ideas."It is a possible explanation, but you can think about many other options. Another one, for example: Rossi told IH that he was preparing the GPT and they accepted. He didn't write "GPT" on his blog, neither Penon did it in his protocol, but maybe they thought it was not necessary because it was clear to everyone that the test was THAT test. IH used the plant to collect investments, but when the end of the test period was near, they began to change their attitude. So they sent an engineer, they contested the fourth report by Penon and, finally, they have made it clear to Rossi that they would not pay him.This is just another way to see the whole story, just another point of view. Maybe not the most credible one, but surely not worse than yours. Just to say that we don't know what really happened, so it's quite worthless take one version for the real one.

Quote from oldguy

1) Rossi sued before the deadline for payment What was left then was for them to counter sue.
2) IH did not believe that the testing in FL was for the GPT
3) If IH did not think that the testing fulfill the requirements (as per signed document - start date agreed to, ERV approved,....)
then what was there to sue concerning the 89M?

The 5th of April Rossi sued IH . From that document you can read:"Pursuant to the License Agreement, on March 29,2016, LEONARDO demanded payment of the remaining Eighty-Nine Million Dollars ($89,000,000.00) due and owing under the License Agreement, but such demand has been refused and the requisite payment has not been made."So Rossi did not sued before the deadline....Moreover, if IH did not think that the testing fulfill the requirements (as you say), why they waited until the end of the period for their objections?

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

Again, all this has been explained, though IH has not stated why they did what they did, there are plausible motivations and IH was, from a very reasonable point of view, successful. They got what they wanted, which was to find out the reality behind the Rossi claims. What they found may not be complete, but it's a lot more than anyone else except maybe Rossi himself knew. Why did Rossi sue IH? Good question. Try to answer it instead of bluffing with questions as if you find the answer obvious.

Why did Rossi sue IH???? For 89 million good reasons.....

"... though IH has not stated why they did what they did".... In fact I really don't understand their motivations, even if you find them so plausible. They were waiting for a GPT, and Rossi began a test that they did not consider a GPT. But they stayed quiet, and had some visitors and raised money from investors. At the end of the test they didn't give a penny to Rossi, saying "Your test is not the GPT". They could say it from the beginning, but they chose to shut their mouths. And you find this attitude "very reasonable"? Well, if you are right I must be a very irrational man....

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

Rossi was contractually obligated to allow that visit, in several ways, but he refused. IH could have immediately shut the installation down or sued if necessary, but they chose to ride it out. They were definitely not knee-jerk. They were giving Rossi every opportunity to show his stuff.

If Rossi doesn't receive his payment and decide to sue IH, he his making something "strange" and a bit suspicious ("Why did Rossi sue IH? Good question") whereas if IH realizes that Rossi is infringing their agreements and does not do a thing, they are giving him an opportunity. So biased and absurd!!