Posts by can

    From Holmlid's latest Swedish patent (discussed briefly in this thread).

    Is Holmlid proposing that the ultra-dense proton+electron (pe) pairs are for all intents and purposes annihilating each other in the reaction?

    Actually, I was trying the electroactivation procedure above with powdered graphite in light water (at 12V DC) but other electrode materials like copper and steel since I didn't have lead sheet electrodes at disposal.

    I recalled that the industrial diamonds of the ongoing LION experiment might have had some sort of electroplating treatment at some point during production (or so has been suggested a few times), but lead likely was not used there. So, I was wondering if those anomalous effects reported in the opening post here have been observed with other electrode materials.

    I didn't think that heavy water should be necessary. So far LION hasn't reported soaking the diamonds in H2O.

    Further, I tried reversing electrode polarity several times as per instructions (since it's been associated with the excess heat events in the document) while roughly monitoring the load of the power supply (through the 12V voltage sag under load) and I noticed that load would remain increased for a while after doing that, as if water conductivity temporarily increased. However I don't know enough about electrochemistry to determine whether that should be considered normal - that could be just due to increased heating due to H2-O2 recombination or also the power supply's characteristics.

    Replying to this thread at this time will probably be confusing for those following the ongoing LION replication efforts, but I'm wondering if any of the anomalous effects described in the opening post have been observed with other electrode materials too, in particular those directly or indirectly used as the LION "fuel" (like Ni from the 3M Diapad disks or Cu).

    Is it plausible that both the electroactivation and occasional polarity reversal process can eventually "dope" the carbon grains in a manner similar to the industrial diamonds suggested to be responsible for anomalous effects in the LION cell?

    Also, are the anomalous effects observed here correlated to any extent to the degree of the electroactivation of these carbon grains?

    (With reference to US 9102529 B2 - Methods and systems for producing hydrogen)

    As far as I recall from past discussions, one of the methods used for producing these industrial diamonds is chemical vapor deposition. I'm wondering if the lengthy process summarily described by LION for preparing these disks (possibly requiring in total anything between 45-60 days or more) could be greatly accelerated by producing suitable complex particles with a carbon plasma arc in a metal salt solution, a colloidal solution of small metal particles, or by using highly impure carbon electrodes for the arc.

    Speculatively, doped diamond-like structures with incorporated O and H atoms could also be formed this way. However this wouldn't really be a "replication" anymore, but something quite different.

    LION claims that the disks are soaked in D2O for at least one month. This would prevent prompt accurate replication of the effect.

    <2018-02-05 22:40>


    Hi BOB,

    A THOUSAND times THANK YOU. Simply stunning images and as always your Passion and Curiosity and Science Nous shines through. I can't even begin to express the pleasure it gives me that you, who have worked so very hard for so long, should have these two reactors to analyse and share with the LENR Community. You are a Star, BOB, an absolute Star, may the Community TREASURE you.


    Hi Lion,

    Is the image of the blob that of melted fuel discs which were pre wrapped in Cu wire?

    BTW how long did you soak the fuel discs in the liquid Deuterium? Did you heat the liquid? If so what temp and time, duty cycle et.

    Will probably join Alan and Bob in a replication effort.

    Thanks for your efforts.


    Hi Engineer 48,

    I am not sure what the Blob is. Soaking= minimum of a month. The Deuterium was room temp.

    All the best.

    Vanadium in water added to the top of mixed carbon/mortar is an interesting thing to see a month later. But I dont know if its helps.

    I have no idea of what you're doing, but if you also add potassium carbonate you will have something close to the formulation used for industrial catalysts in petrochemistry (composed mainly of iron oxide/hematite and potassium oxide or carbonate as the active agents, plus other oxides in small amounts for structural stability and indirectly also carbon).

    However, in that case carbon is inherently added in controlled amounts (completing the catalyst preparation/activation) during operating conditions when the catalyst reacts with the cracking/decomposing hydrocarbons molecules.

    To make this information more in-topic, perhaps some of the graphite and iron carbide phases formed on the catalysts contribute to their excellent chemical activity in a manner similar to that of the doped nanodiamonds described in the last few pages.

    Alan Smith

    According to a paper I found with a web search, the work function of certain doped diamond films can be as low as 0.9 eV (full copy here). It might be interesting/useful to note that Holmlid suggested that it could become even lower than 0.5 eV with Rydberg matter of Cesium, from his early '90s research. His measurements have been criticized as far as I am aware of, but they have been partially reproduced a few years ago by Yarygin et al. The experiments caused an anomalous reverse current phenomenon from the lower-temperature, RM-covered Ni+C perforated collector electrode, with a measured work function of ~1.0 eV in their case.

    I've also found this article about Mike Taggett's research, dated 2018-01-18. This is where one of Ahlfors' photos posted above comes from:…-solar-system/1044139001/


    A Southern Utah scientist is studying potentially the most dense material in our solar system

    Mike Taggett is an entrepreneur-turned-scientist studying a form of hydrogen that some believe is denser than any material on our planet.


    From the Tern Research website linked above by Ahlfors there's a press release dated 2017-12-26; it has some interesting tidbits. It looks like they're doing laser ablation experiments. Metals exposed to ultra-dense hydrogen would take significantly more time to ablate.

    * * * * *

    Press Release 12-26-17 Tern Research

    A Southern Utah entrepreneur has completed a series of experiments at Southern Utah University confirming that an unusual phase of deuterium can exist under the right conditions. This research is based on the work of Prof. Leif Holmlid at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden.

    Mike Taggett, who founded Chums, a sports accessories company, in 1983, is a long time inventor and researcher. Since selling Chums in 2002, Mike has spent most of his time working on alternative energy projects and inventions. He has worked in two labs prior to the one in Cedar City in attempts to verify the existence of Ultra Dense Deuterium (UDD). Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen, exists in sea water and contains a neutron along with the proton in its nucleus making it heavier than hydrogen.

    He has been studying dense deuterium for the past 5 years and has visited over 15 universities looking for a physics professor that would collaborate with him. "Most physics departments are pretty busy and they are reluctant to spend any time on a material they are skeptical about". He says. "I understand they are busy but Holmlid has spent over 12 years and has published over 30 papers; it's a significant discovery." In 2016, Mike was able to rent lab space at the University of Idaho and looked for changes in surface conductivity of metal samples being exposed to the catalyzed gas. "I was able to build up a good system; vacuum chamber, fast impedance analyzer, etc. but it turned out to be very tricky to get stable readings so the results were not reliable." I was trying to work there a year later in a laser lab but the project got stuck in bureaucracy." So Mike kept looking for places to work and did odd jobs to pay the bills.

    He had sold his home and was basically a science vagabond staying in cheap motels around the west. "I was staying in Cedar City and wandered over to SUU. I knew it was a 4 year teaching university, rather than having much research, but I thought I would take a look. I met Professor Ali Siahpush while waiting to see the Engineering Dept. Chair and I mentioned research and he said "Research? Great! If it aligns with our mission and you can use a student to help that would be great!" "Everyone was really helpful getting me going." Mike says. Mike was on a shoestring budget and built up a system with a rebuilt vacuum chamber, parts from eBay and a laser he borrowed from another university on condition he could repair it.

    Mike and his assistant Ben Thrift, an engineering student, had things up and running in 5 weeks. The work and data collection focused on comparing how the laser "ablates" the metal before and after deposition of the ultra dense layer (ablation is a term for removing material) and in this case the material evaporates directly from the solid rather than melting first.

    Mike says, "Looking into the vacuum chamber through the window, it looks like a welding torch when running as the pulsing laser is powerful but for very short times, about 5 nano seconds per pulse!" Mike and Ben ran over 20 multi-day experiments on a variety of metals and saw a definite change after the dense layer formed. "It would take 200 -300% longer to ablate through the metal. Pretty amazing considering the invisible UDD layer is really thin, perhaps just atoms thick!" "Of course there is always the chance of an alternative explanation but right now the results are positive," he says.

    Mike thinks the dense deuterium could have applications for energy storage or space propulsion. "It's really fun and challenging to work in an emerging field. I am one of just three groups that I know of working on this." "Who knows what can be done with this unique material?"

    The next step he says is to further the work with different types of particle and energy detectors to better understand UDD. Mike says, "A big thanks to Julia Anderson, Dean Robert Eves and professors Ali Siahpush, Matt Roberts, Scott Munro and Sangho Bok for helping me get going at SUU."

    I'm not going to discuss if they were reliable or not, but Defkalions systems that used spark plugs - especially if a resistor was not used to reduce the intensity - make a lot of sense now. The EVO leading the discharge between electrodes would have produced multiple forms of stimulation. Especially upon hitting the anode and exploding, it would have released electrons, perhaps smaller EVOs, x-rays, light, and RF. I'm now wondering if Rossi used spark plug like devices in some of his early systems.

    Could the two devices with black cables embedded in the back of the reactor have been spark plugs?

    If they used spark plugs, I don't think they would have been ordinary spark plugs like the one depicted in the diagram below.

    Spark Plugs Diagram Fire Plug Diagram ~ Elsavadorla

    Alan Smith

    The smell would come from the soot and gases produced, which is assumed would also be produced and retained inside the tube as you write. The further decomposition of these under prolonged thermal cycling (between 500 and 800 °C for about 3-3.5 days as mentioned in the presentation) would produce simpler carbon compounds depending on what the inner atmosphere in the sealed tube is composed of (it's not clear if a vacuum is pre-applied, if hydrogen gas is used, etc.). Bottom line is that it could be more complex than it seems at first.

    Not sure if it's in-topic here, but since his experiments have been mentioned: it's been suggested that in LION's experiments the Ni/C disks are wrapped in magnet wire, and that the tube also is.

    Does this literally mean that each disk is separately wrapped with polymer-coated Cu wire?

    I also imagine that the outer wire would make for a smelly experiment as the tube is heated and the polymer coating decomposes, is this the case?


    That would also work, although the initial suggestion was in part motivated also by the context of automated testing that you've been setting up so far (in that whenever possible no manual intervention is made after the experiment starts).

    On a related note, I think this paper describes some of those tests by Storms:

    Nature of energetic radiation emitted from a metal exposed to H2
    Submitted to J. Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, Nov. 2012

    page 12 wrote:

    [...] The radiation being emitted by the sample is proposed to result from a fusion reaction that produces coherent photons. These photons are proposed to react with K40 nuclei in the mica window of the GM to stimulate its decay by beta and gamma emission that is easily detected by the GM. Some of the energetic gamma from this decay can reach GM #2 and cause a slight increase in count, as shown in Fig. 13.

    The test I'm referring to is GlowStick 5.4. The detector used to detect gamma counts in a different room was the unmodified one.…tests/#comment-3138029753

    Bob Greenyer wrote:

    I discussed this with Alan and he wants to have the second GM 320+ in the office as a dosimeter.[...]

    I didn't remember right away that one of them was semi-permanently modified, however. After reading that thread now I see that I suggested that the insensitive (standard GMC-320) detector be used with metallic foil near the reactor alongside the pancake tube equipped one.

    I also wrote this at the time on LENR-Forum:

    In reference to my previous comment, in the end MFMP agreed upon my request (I used a different nickname on E-CatWorld) to add a silver metal plate (a 2.3mm thick, 38.6mm diameter commemorative 15 euro coin) on the front of the Geiger tube window of one of their detectors. This should increase the chances to see beta decay reactions from muon capture significantly; Russ George also apparently used silver foil with success some time back.

    In reference to Russ George as linked in the quote above here is a relevant excerpt:

    Russ George wrote:

    Once while running an experiment I happened upon a distinct highly reproducible radiation measurement. My Geiger Counter signaled the first hint of it and upon fiddling about with my “hey that’s strange” reaction to the enhance rate of Geiger clicks I managed to make the Geiger record vastly more counts, even saturating the detector. I did that by placing various different elementary foils between the source and the detector. Normally when one puts something in between a radiation source and a Geiger Counter the count rate inevitably goes down, not up. In my work a thin Silver foil sent the Geiger over the moon.


    I asked because if I recall correctly Alan Goldwater over the course of that experiment did have two identical regular GM detectors (I think GMC-320), but one of them was busy measuring counts in a different room, so this specific test couldn't be performed.

    In a number of posts and comments made in the past it was thought that GQ GMC-320 detectors were not sensitive enough for detecting gamma radiation during LENR experiments, while the older GMC-300 model, which has a different GM tube window material, would be.…ct/posts/1129990227031675…/1130948560269175/?type=3…ct/posts/1132279306802767…ct/posts/1132400013457363

    However, if this is actually due to strange radiation and if there indeed is some sort of interaction with detector materials (i.e. activation), then it's not really a matter of sensitivity and the seemingly insensitive GMC-320 could potentially be made useful too as suggested. It would have been interesting to show the difference with the detectors in both configurations operating at the same time.


    In direct&practical reference to your upcoming tests, do you have two identical Geiger counters so that the suggestion that in the potential presence of any 'strange radiation' emission a count enhancement by placing foils or layers of conductive metals (silver, copper, etc) in front of one of the detectors' window could be verified without altering their arrangement while the experiment is running? You might have already read about this before, for example here, but also probably in other instances.

    Of course, their sensitivity would be tested/calibrated before the actual test, as well as any attenuation of the background signal caused by the metal foil/shielding.

    I think I recall a silver coin was used briefly on a past MFMP test by Goldwater et al, which caused a pancake GM detector to report a slightly decreased background signal.

    For the record, I tried to contact Andy Hofle on a different (personal) email address I got somewhere and in a reply I received today he confirmed that Lawrence Nelson is indeed alive and that he would forward him my request. It looks like Nelson probably doesn't read his email from the domain very often. I sent there a basic question asking information about the current status of his research.

    I'm afraid this could be a dead end. Here's what I got in reply.

    I'm quoting the email entirely (almost) so that you others can draw your own conclusions.

    However, since this is not a very nice thing to do I might delete it if Nelson objects (I asked), so please don't quote the screenshot back. 

    EDIT: after asking, he was fine with me sharing the information.

    For the record, I tried to contact Andy Hofle on a different (personal) email address I got somewhere and in a reply I received today he confirmed that Lawrence Nelson is indeed alive and that he would forward him my request. It looks like Nelson probably doesn't read his email from the domain very often. I sent there a basic question asking information about the current status of his research.


    An idea could be (or maybe it would even be better than a standard video in some ways) using time-lapse photography with the camera set in manual mode with fixed (not automatic) white point calibration, and fixed aperture+exposure time set so that the image will not be overexposed at typical glowing conditions. However that would require a more serious/advanced digital camera than the usual webcam or smartphone camera, plus some care in maintaining stable ambient lighting conditions.


    If it's absorption the process should be reversible, but perhaps that might be going outside the scope of your planned testing.

    By other kinds of testing indeed I previously meant for example somehow measuring the light output (without a spectrometer) while applying RF in a suitable transparent tube and with various gas/metal mixtures, which would initially be H2/Ni. The suggestion is that with anomalous heating perhaps also comes anomalous light output (besides thermal glow) and that it might be triggered already during the processing phase. Darden et al were looking at something similar few years ago, as it was revealed in the trial documentation last summer, but that was only while heating (reportedly), and RF stimulation could be as good as, if not better than, heat alone as a LENR trigger.


    We are building tiny glass reactors for rapid testing purposes. Our cost per test has dropped from thousands of dollars to about $25. We have been seeing flashes of energy in the fuel when it is heated. Our goal is to be able to see and record the intensity of reactions occurring with different fuel materials. [...]


    It will be interesting to see if for example during the treatment H2 pressure will decrease in a way that could be interpreted as some sort of anomalous hydrogen absorption. In general, it could be worth monitoring that portion of the experiment as if it was a "live" one.

    Alan Smith

    Truth being told, I did that soon after I found the addresses, and I also tried asking his IT coworker at at other email addresses, but I'm not expecting prompt replies. I also considered asking Kenneth Rauen (the author of the 2006 PESN report) but he doesn't have direct email contact information (apparently he currently works for Mark Goldes' Aesop institute and I don't want to send emails to this organization).

    I'm not sure I would consider purchasing Correa DVDs a good investment, but more power to you if you have the disposable money for that.

    By the way, I also wanted to add to my previous comment that similar questions could be asked to Kenneth Shoulders' son Steve, who wrote papers with him and assisted work in his laboratory (e.g. what is he currently doing, is he trying to continue his fathers' work, etc), although for likewise similar reasons he might understandably not want to respond to such requests.

    EDIT: anyway, to add more useful information regarding again Nelson's granted patent, it appears that fees were paid until 2014-11, when it eventually expired. I think he chose the 11.5 year term payment option (the longest and most expensive one according to this page), which got extended to 12 years by the USPTO. The patent was issued on 2002-10. I guess this at least shows a certain degree of initial confidence by the inventor on his patent.

    can I saw those too. So what do you think is going on here?

    I can of course only speculate on the reasons.

    • It was never intended to work as claimed;
    • It never really produced excess energy, but the inventor realized it too late (measurement error);
    • Unpredicted effects resulted from the reactor operating as intended, causing the inventor to eventually die of illness;
    • TPTB?

    In all seriousness, if the inventor is still alive it would help clarifying things up to contact him for details about any ongoing work; if he died (he doesn't look very healthy in the photos after all), if any relative could provide more background behind his efforts, although I would not expect a prompt response on the subject, if any at all.

    Alan Smith

    Forgive my skepticism but this isn't something you simply stop working on "due to lack of funds". He basically reported having something he could use right away to save 100% of his own electric and heating bills and even sell surplus electricity if he wanted to.

    From the PESN report indirectly linked a few comments earlier from RexResearch, dated 2006-10:


    [...] Lawrence told me recently that he has a 1000 watt electric generator running in his laboratory right now, using only 200 watts of electricity input. He is also close to commercialization, but like the others, lacks business experience and funding.

    Alan Smith

    The Facebook page quotes him as being the president of Nelson Scientific since 1995 and that it's his own company. From other sources I found that he has at least two email addresses, one with a domain name, and another with a domain name. Both of these websites currently display blank pages (archived versions exist), but they refer to the same person that you can see in the public Facebook page. Contact info do not mention other Nelson's. The second website has a photo of a thinner-looking him. Therefore I thought that he is the inventor, and that if he died recently, he died at a relatively young age.

    Whether he is still alive or he's indeed his son, it would be odd if he abandoned this work.