Posts by guest111

Quote from JedRothwell

The photos were taken while the reactor was being used. If the heat was real and you removed a 1 MW exchanger while it was being used, you would kill everyone in the warehouse. Even Rossi admits this, so you should not deny it.

The heat exchanger was NOT there. It was NEVER there. Rossi made up the story of the heat exchanger long after the bogus test ended. If there had been a heat exchanger, people would have seen it and it would have shown up in photographs.

Google street view showed the windows were there while the reactor was being used. If the windows were there even one day while the reactor produced 1 MW, it would have killed everyone. Google is not conspiring to frame Rossi. There would have to be massive equipment hanging out of the windows to for an air-cooled 1 MW heat exchanger. There was none.

If I were the lawyer, along with a 60-lb 3-foot section of pipe (that Rossi and his phantom day-laborers hauled up multiple sections 10x as heavy and long into the second floor , fitted and supported, then Rossi single-handedly removed in a day, without a trace), I'd haul in about ten, 1000 watt spacer heaters into the courtroom and run up the temp in the courtroom, then have them envision 1000 of them. Of course, you'd have to get an electrician to run 100 amp 120 volt service from somewhere, just for the 10 heaters, or a generator (even more to demonstrate the point), since the standard circuits would only handle two space heaters.

Quote from THHuxleynew

The strange thing with Rossi is that there is so much development of plants which then vanish, with no sales nor demos anyone else can validate, shot down to be replaced by the next duck (or quarkX) in the row - so to speak!

That's "Quack-X"- correct translation from Italian "Quark-X"...

Quote from SSC

There is photographic evidence that there was no heat exchanger on the day the photo was taken. No photographic evidence can prove that the object was not there the day before.

How can you say that windows have been there all the time? Were you in charge of cleaning them daily?

The tiresome, insipid, droning of the Rossi antiScientific Method: Prove the negative of every exhortation, while expecting nor providing any positive proof (regardless of how easily positive proof could/would normally be provided for said exhortations).

Quote from [email protected]

I doubt Rossi wants this offer to become 'real' because it means he wouldn't get his $89M. He seems to have very little chance of winning that but juries do very strange things, like saying "if the glove don't fit you must acquit" while completely ignoring overwhelming scientific evidence of DNA .

Rossi seems to be able to pull the wool over the eyes of seasoned scientists and even Skeptics Society members if you believe the hyperskeptics side of the story. So he might easily charm a jury that will roll their eyes when the technical stuff goes back & forth.

In addition to all of the dubious (at best) Rossi behavior, a jury of common folk (not multi-millionaires), are not likely to be very sympathetic that Rossi indeed did receive $10+ million, for his "efforts", promptly spent on condos, toupees and who-knows-what else, then rather than "taking the money and run" turned around and thought he would try to get another $90M for his "efforts" by biting the hand that fed him the $10+ million. Oh, and the IH/Cherokee investment money (amounts argued) that their fund collected, this money is not "pocketed" by individuals at IH, it's theirs to blow however they like on other high-risk bets (and presumably lawyers at this point). And please quit droning about Rossi's "IP", he has nothing but a single patent with claims for a crude electric hotdog cooker vessel.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Kevmo - glad to see you are beginning to see the issue here.

Rossi's ability to spoof tests is indeed mind-boggling, and has taken in many people better (though maybe also more naive) than you.

Surely even you are not claiming MFMP, TC, Bob Higgins, GSVIT are all wrong on this subtle but large error?

Let me point out - maybe you did not know - how Rossi does it.

Most people doing experiments of this type reckon a control experiment is needed. It lets them debug their equipment and check what they are measuring is real.

Rossi is on record as saying that controls are not necessary because they provide no information. And he is as good as his word. his experiments have almost never had a control. Where there has been a control it has been under different conditions or protocols from the real experiment - hence no control at all. And in the Lugano test Rossi convinced the testers (or the testers convinced themselves) it was two difficult to use a simple thermomenter AKA thermocouple except at very low temperatures where it did no good.

Now you can perhaps see why almost everyone here reckons Rossi technically incompetent as well as a liar? The above are all incontrovertible facts, in the public record. I'd like you to acknowledge them.

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Standard Type K thermocouples good up to 1200 degrees c. Used to run multiple thermocouples at a time thru 40-foot long muffle belt furnaces, glued (sometimes drilled into and glued) onto ceramic (aluminum oxide usually) substrates with ceramic cement, the thermocouple leads with alumina bead insulators rolled up on bicycle rims and fed thru the furnace (this was 25+ years ago), for profiling metallurgy firing processes--slapping several on the static Rossi Patented Hotdog Cooker tubes is a no-brainer (but that tried and true, direct measurement leaves way too little room for the Wizard of Miami/Italy to yank the levers and wave hands).

In the end, it’s probably not really that complicated to a jury, as common sense will probably prevail:

a)if something is too good to be true, 99.9% of the time it is.

b)a high percentage of the jurors have likely been duped into attending an Amway spiel at least once by a “friend” or acquaintance—they’ll recognize Rossi and his modus operandi (the other few percent who might BE Amway salespeople will be a much smaller percentage)

c)they will recognize that IH was placing a very low odds bet/hedge on possible new technology, and the fact they are using OPM (other people’s money) who, in-writing signed off on the high probability of losing it on such bets, accounts for their, what might be considered negligent to normal people, "investment" in the E-Dog.

d) the "prove every Rossi claim does NOT exist, or is NOT true" mantra will not work

Quote from we_cat_global

SSC,

Well done. It seems that Thomas Darden has been very sloppy (negligent?) with his SEC paperwork as well. Mmmm..it must be a pain for Thomas Darden that his reputation is further tarnished by this court case. Once one has the SEC on its back it is hard to focus on anything else..

Cheers,

JB

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Spoken as a true peanut-gallery worker, who has never run a business, or created a single job or product; if so, you would know that every business deals with these hoards of bureaucrats and paperwork that police every aspect of one's business, waiting to find some technical violation of paperwork or whatever, to fine the business and justify their existence--they are, in fact impossible to avoid at one time or another. In fact, I would wager that in addition to never running a business, or ever creating a job or product, you all are probably one of these public dole bureaucrats (or similar). But, everyone knows that you are simply grasping at straws to somehow draw some moral-equivalence to all of Rossi's dubious behavior and claims--keep jousting at them ecats, quarkxxxx's and invisible heat-exchangers.

Quote from WMartin

Speaking as a nationally certified pipefitter. low pressure pipe will use A105 carbon steel piping. High pressure would use A106 (seamless) carbon steel piping. You would not need stainless steel for a short duration system (3 years is short for industrial piping) unless your heat exchanger was exchanging heat with a corrosive chemical. The piping should be welded where possible because steam leaks will quickly cut steel. From what I saw in the deposition, I would assume that it is a low pressure system. Flanged connections should be with a metal gasket. Valves should be flanged gate valves. You could have a ball valve for quick stopping and starting of flow but it needs to be a specialty valve rated for steam usage and should have a gate valve backup. Contrary to what others have said, Home depot would not have any of this material but all of it except for any control valves in the system would readily available at an industrial pipe supply although there might be a couple of month lead time on the 180 degree elbows because they are rarely used and might have to be preordered. Although not exceptionally large, the total order would be two or more 40 foot trailer loads and need a significant staging area. Including prefabrication, the job would take more than a month for a crew of 10 working 40 hours a week*. If I were planning this job, I would have a crew of 1 supervisor, 1 expeditor, 1 laborer, 1 fork lift/crane operator (on this small of a job, frequently the supervisor will also perform this task), 2 pipefitters, 2 helpers, and 2 welders. The exchanger is listed as being encased in a wooden insulated box so you would need to hire 2 carpenters and 2 insulators after the piping is finished. Note that this does not make any sense because that would keep you from losing the heat that you built the exchanger for unless it is a weird design using enclosed forced ventilation. I find it impossible to believe that IH would not notice that kind of duct work and fan system along with the accompanying high velocity air flow. The system is supposed to be computer controlled but Rossi and the other 2 engineers could probably hook up any control systems.

*My estimate is based on minimal piping and does not include supporting because I have no idea what kind of supports are needed. A concrete floor could be supported in a day or two. Wooden flooring that needed extensive bracing could add weeks to the job.

*I believe the exchanger would take at least 2 months from start to finish with the crew described. My more than a month estimate involves everything going perfectly. As a rule of thumb, all jobs take about 50% longer to complete than a planners handbook indicates. Something always goes wrong in the job that slows you down. For example, there might not be enough clear space to get a 10 meter pipe in the space. This would suddenly increase the number of welds in the base exchanger piping by 50%.

*Proper piping outside the actual exchanger would probably add 1 to 2 weeks to the job.

IH Fanboy

Yes, a crew of 3 could probably dismantle the piping in less than a week but it would not be in any condition to reuse afterward. Rossi stated he dismantled the piping for reuse. It takes a lot longer than you think to salvage welded piping for reuse. It also takes a lot longer than you think to field weld 6 inch piping. On average, a pipefitter, helper, and welder is going to get 2 six inch field welds in a 10 hour day, 3 if they are lucky. Even in a fabrication shop setting, you are only going to make 4-5 6 inch welds in a 10 hour day.

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Rossi, nor IHFB, have enough practical knowledge to understand that fabricating such a large heavy heat exchanger is not like the Home-Depot small pipe, tubing, insulation and tape-mummified crude tabletop "demos" and "prototypes" that Rossi concocted. In addition to your excellent outline above, they did all that installation, and removal (requiring some significant rigging to manage pipe that heavy (unless the cut it all up into 3'sections (a big job in itself))) in a cramped, limited-access, un-airconditioned second floor, with Rossi and some day-laborers, with nary a bit of evidence left behind--not even a hole or dent in the wall!

If I were the lawyer, I'd haul a 3' section of that pipe into the courtroom and have the jurors (and/or Rossi) try to pick up the 60 pound short piece, and then have them imagine dragging up pieces 10 times as long and heavy into their attic in the summertime, manipulating, cutting, welding etc with Rossi and a couple of helpers. Rossi should have made his story more believable by stating that the pieces were rigged thru his invisible quick-change glazing system on the windows.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Shane,

Yes, I do. The photos taken apparently had obstructions and did not cover everything. They were arguing over just a hand full of photos. The interesting thing is, they were pointing to things and saying: yes, that is where one pipe comes in, the other goes out, the bypass is outside of the container, etc. In other words, there were THINGS in the photos that were being discussed. Not invisible things, but things.

Now, having said that, I'm not 100% confident about the heat exchanger: who could be? I'm guessing we'll see more come out during trial. It would be nice, for example, to see pictures of the dismantled pipes. That would be something. It would be nice to ask everyone who ever entered the building to comment on whether they saw pipes going up into the mezzanine... I mean, nobody was even asked those questions besides Rossi (at least in the deposition record that we have so far).

On the stand, these questions should be asked. Also, did anybody notice fans blowing air out the front windows? Why was nobody asked that simple question? And if they were, neither side has opted to reveal that evidence to us yet. It all seems extremely strange. It is as if both sides are hiding balls, awaiting the ultimate battle in front of the jury.

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It's so funny, all the plethora of mere "coincidences", misfortunes, and/or conspiracies where any positive proof are always absent, such as out of many photos they juuuuuuuuuuuust missed by inches taking one of the fathom heat exchanger that would provide irrefutable evidence; but what's even funnier (or ridiculous) is your "logic" that this absence of proof is indeed proof.

Quote from Rends

https://animpossibleinvention.…08/us9115913b1.pdf#page=8

Look at the CLAIMS, nothing but a hotdog cooker; he can put whatever extraneous, unsubstantiated, red-herring, hand-waving in the body of the patent that he likes, it means nothing if not claimed. So, I suppose the Rossi Brethren are going to say that Rossi (who is so protective and paranoid of his "IP"), then put his "secret recipes", or hint's thereof, in the text of the patent but did not claim them as some sort of master-strategy, so now all the world is free to use them since they are publicly disclosed but not claimed...........?? Or, did he intentionally put erroneous information in the patent, to "distract" would-be copy-cats, in which case the patent would be invalidated...?

Quote from ele

No you are wrong. That patent was filed by IH (assignee) not Rossi himself !

It was IH and Darden that (without having the rights to do so) have copied the Lugano Report and filed the patent.

Rossi files his own patents for the Leonardo Corp. and one patent regarding the Ecat was GRANTED.

i.e. that "one patent "regarding" the Ecat" being: "The Turbo Hotdog Cooker" patent, ONLY a crude vessel with resistive heaters is claimed and granted (no claims of LENR, no formulas, no "fuels", etc.) . Others are a hoard of useless patent APPLICATIONS, none granted.

Quote from SSC

The heat exchanger was dismantled at the end of the test: it is not invisible, it is simply no longer there. Who took the photos? Do the photos show all the environments from every angle? You can not prove in any way that the heat exchanger was not there, so stop expressing about it as if you possess the absolute truth.

No evidence of the fathom behemoth pipe and plywood contraptionion being installed, having been installed, or having been removed...pictures, materials, data, sawdust, metal chips, witnesses, workers (Rossi must be a superman if he dragged all that pipe up to the un-airconditioned mezzanine, fitted all that pipe, plywood, and then removed it (invisible steel pipe also must have a density of zero, and anti-gravity properties)--all without a trace or witness---absolutely amazing!!). It was yet another invisible Rossi invention/claim, and yet another item that the Rossi Brethren insist must be proven using the Rossi antiScientific Method: "thou must prove the negative of every Rossi exhortation"--good luck with the jury/judge believing that.

Quote from Bob

Kev,

Not to add to the fodder, but one has to stop taking "Planet Rossi" stories and accepting them as fact.

For instance, there is absolutely no evidence that IH is "striving to keep Rossi's supposedly worthless IP". Please provide links if you have any.

What is indeed the case, is that IH has ALREADY PAID $10 million dollars for Rossi's IP! This is in the court documents. It is not debated even by Rossi.

They HAVE the IP and there is no "striving to keep it".

Now, just because someone paid for something, does not make it worth anything. As mentioned, Bernie Maddoff sold billions of investment portfolios and they were worth nothing.

However, are you saying that IH should simply "return" all of the legal rights of Rossi's IP back to Rossi for nothing? That they should state, we paid $10 million dollars for this, but it does

not work, so we are simply going to "return the legal rights" and write off the $10 million?

This is absurd. Of course they will keep the legal rights until either Rossi pays them back (which there has been no evidence that he has offered, other than a comment on his blog) or Rossi provides them with the intellectual property that allows them to build working reactors. (This is not going to happened because Rossi has no working reactors)

So again, we must stick to the facts and to logic.

If IH had IP that really worked they would :

1) Gladly pay Rossi so they could start selling BILLIONS in cold fusion reactors!

2) They would start selling cold fusion reactors or lease the IP to manufacturers to build them for them and make billions.

3) Become larger than Apple.

They do not build reactors and sell them and make billions for the exact same reason Rossi does not do this in Europe! Because the eCat does not work!

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That's correct, talking about insult to injury, Rossi and his congregation thinks he should have his valuable hotdog cooker IP back (the only reason likely is to help further perpetuate the incessant and droning here by a few that rossi has any IP other than the hotdog cooker patent), after IH paid 10+ million for it; also IH can write off the $10+ million anyway, since anything to do with Rossi or his hotdog cookers have been nothing but a money and resource rat-hole (ie nothing profitable or any possibility of becoming profitable).

Quote from THHuxleynew

You seem to think that if anyone has not explicitly contradicted an outlandish claim that they cannot in any case know about, therefore they support it?

That is a corollary to the prime tenant of Rosscientology ( ie: science must prove the non-existence of everything in the universe, along with every outlandish claim made by L.Ron Rossi), only understood and appreciated when one achieves Operating Quarkx Sigma5 Level of spritual development--you sir, are not yet worthy, and require more Auditing.

Quote from SSC

Certainly, patent covers what are listed as claimed, but that does not mean that what is disclosed in the patent text does not count. Otherwise, why should write the text? Would not it suffice to submit to the patent office only a list of claims? If you have to deal with a patent dispute, you realize how all that is written in a patent becomes important ...

The purpose of the text is to support and describe the claims so that the invention may be reduced to practice (not getting into the issue that the patent office does not REQUIRE actual reduction to practice). People can pack all manner of gibberish in the text unrelated to claims if they like, which will be ignored by the examiner (however, albeit at the risk of ticking off the examiner). So if Rossi divulged his "secrets" in the text, without claiming them, then it's publicly disclosed, and public information for anyone to use; why would he hint of and publicly disclose any of his "secrets"; aside from giving away his "secrets", he is and all his devotees claim that protecting his valuable "secrets" accounts for much of his dubious behavior; that is, unless his only "secret" is that he is perpetuating another fraud. The Rossi IP claimed remains and is a hotdog cooker.

Quote from [email protected]

Again, it's obvious you have dealt with the patent office from the perspective of a mature industry. USPTO admits to going out of their way to disallowing LENR patents.

The USPTO denies patents on wacko, unproven, fraudulent "perpetual motion" devices, as they should, since NO ONE has yet to provide any credible scientific evidence, over what are probably millions of "submissions" over the years. When/if someone actually scientifically proves (not via the "Rossi Scientific Method" (the basic premise of which is that one must prove things DON'T work)) a perpetual motion device, the patent office would certainly accept it. Rossi's "IP" is nothing but a design for for a hotdog heater --a vessel with resistance heaters, (a $10 hot-dog cooker from Walmart will actually work however).

Quote from JedRothwell

No, this is your speculation, and your opinion. Not a fact. Whether something is unwise or not is a matter of opinion.

Perhaps the people who gave them the $50 million were unwise. I do not know the details of the agreement. If it were me giving them the money, it would be contingent on the test working, and if the test failed, they would have to give it back. I have no idea whether such conditions are attached.

What I know for a fact is that the test failed. Anyone can see that from Penon report.

Also, there are definite hints of the classic criminal's "logic" in SSC and ele's repeated opinions/insinuations of other's motives: that being "...I wouldn't have robbed that bank, if they hadn't LET me rob it...". Or: "....if anyone is "unwise" (or risk-taking, uninformed, etc) enough to give Rossi money, they deserve to have it stolen....".

Quote from THHuxleynew

Well, it makes sense. Rossi perhaps needs to test the ability of 20 e-cats to heat condos, for which of course he needs 20 condos. I bet they've been doing it for more than a year.

And given the electric heater thing that RossiSays would be 100% true.

Aside from Florida being the scam-capital of the country (particularly insurance and Medicare/Medicaid thieves), very generous bankruptcy/property laws, not much heat is required, so Rossi's inefficient hot-water heaters (patented) should be sufficient (although much more expensive than a heat-pump, as heating spaces with resistance-heat always is, and an absolute fire and electrical-shock-hazard). He should however, read the Florida bankruptcy laws; in order to keep one's "domicile" (no limit on the value) in bankruptcy, it must be a single residence on less than 0.5 acres if in a municipality, or less than 50 acres if not in a municipality. Well he has $10M to play with (till he loses in court), say 6 or so for real-estate, 3 or so for lawyers (dumb, dumber, and dumbest move ever), and another 1 or 2 for wine, women, cars and toupees--what a life, why work for a living.

Quote from axil

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

Lessons can be drawn from this latest failure about the nature of LENR and what causes it to fail. ME356 has informed us that the reactor melted through at a hot spot and the hydrogen leaked out at this point of failure through the material that comprises the reactor tube.

Rossi has had this problem for many years and it has only been resolved in the last year when Rossi realized that LENR will seek to reach a temperature that is beyond the containment capacity of the material that he had been using over the years.

When Rossi moved to replace his tube material with something that can contain the maximum temperature that the LENR reactor can reach, then Rossi was on his way to achieving Sigma 5.

Me356 has not learned this lesson from Rossi and because of this lack of understanding; his reactors will occasionally melt through.

Rossi has given us this maximum temperature that the LENR reaction wants to reach when it is given its head. 3000K is that temperature for Rossi. His tube material is a ceramic insulator like alumina but melts at a temperature that exceeds the 3000K maximum temperature that LENR wants to get to. Until Me356 changes his tube material to contain the maximum temperature that LERN can attain, his reactor will not be ready for the marketplace.

Moved from 'Aura' thread. Alan.

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Is "Sigma 5" to the Rossi Believers like "Thetan Level 1001" to Scientology Believers?

Quote from IH Fanboy

Forgive me for not believing this story as told. According to Darden, he discovered the dummy reactor in Jan. 2014. If this were true, he would have never pursued landing the investment with Woodford later on. Woodford stated that Rossi's technology was core to their investment. At that time, Darden probably believed that the e-Cat worked. I don't think he would otherwise have had the gumption to land that large of an investment with Rossi being core to the investment. I think the dummy reactor story has been embellished, and at the time Darden gave the testimony, he probably hadn't quite thought through all of the implications.

"It is only prudent never to place complete confidence in that by which we have been once deceived". (not to mention four, six, eight... times). IHFB has mostly unsubstantiated, unverifiable, selective "thoughts" and "beliefs", just like Rossi et.al. --that is the "Rossi Scientific Method" as practiced by his followers.