Great! Bitcoin transfer OK? Best these kind of dealings are kept anonymous, I reckon.


    Although it all might be a moot point seeing as no-ones been daft enough to stump up any readies yet. You should advertise it on ecatworld perhaps? That lot aren’t exactly known for their critical thinking skills.


    You are welcome to underbid me on GoFundMe. It should be easy to do, since my asking price is so high.


    I am not changing the subject. And as usual, my questions were not answered.


    This is my answer to the question of what it would take to bell the cat. Of course I think YOU should bell the cat, or Jed, since he's tested cold fusion devices before. But the question is "what would it take for ME to bell the cat". This is the answer.


    Like I said, It only took me a few keystrokes to get started with the GoFundMe thing, and I can say unequivocally that it's a relatively painless process that doesn't take much time. So... there's that removal of excuses thing going on right there.


    Those are the elements of what it takes to bell the cat: Willingness, time, capability, wherewithal . Those who have the time and willingness are low on capability and wherewithal. Those who have the capabilty and wherewithal are low on willingness and time. Most of us can develop capability and wherewithal, but we can't really develop willingness and freed time .


    To be candid, there's one more element: Bullshit. When Celani pulled out his Geiger counter , Rossi climbed all over him because it could point to what he was using in his cells. Probably bullshit. MFMP announced they found gammas, Biberian replicated it 48 hours later, then they went off and tested other stuff without saying a word. Bullshit. Now we have MFMP coming back on line to send me a private message because they're not on Vortex-L nor here, how they quietly referenced the gammas in some peer reviewed thingie, surrounded by a ton of.... bullshit. Then we have Alan on here claiming he has gammas, so I'm ready to answer the question for myself as to what it would take me to overcome all the bullshit that's been thrown around over this gamma issue, and including the bullshit thrown around here. So you have my answer. It should be easy to underbid me for those who have a higher tolerance of bullshit. Then everyone's happy, and the cat gets belled.

    I would never do any such a thing in the first place, so do not ask for my advice about "what I would say". I would recommend though, that you cancel the whole thing and take it down from GFM like Alan said. Pronto. As far as I am concerned, you used a members name and photo -who is also a forum Admin, in an attempt to bilk people out of their money. Probably that was not your intent, but it comes across that way. Especially so the large sum ($100,000) you asked for.


    So, you're not gonna answer the question.


    How is it bilking money if Jed is asking for 10x? How is it bilking if I am willing to transfer the money to someone else living closer, who knows how to use a gamma spectrometer?


    Oh, I know. No one ever really answers the questions. I get it.



    "You work your side of the street. I'll work mine."

    "Law & Order" Tombstone (TV Episode 2005) - Dennis Farina as Joe ...



    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0629472/characters/nm0001199

    "Law & Order" Tombstone (TV Episode 2005) Dennis Farina as Joe Fontana. ... You work your side of the street, McCoy. I'll work mine.

    This is the applicable part of what you said in your GFM plea:


    "When we are done with testing the devices, we will donate the spectrometer to the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project or use it for further testing/debunking of claims."


    I'll be happy to modify it for clarity. What do you think it should say? Or rather I should ask, if it were you being funded, what would it say?

    Okay, if we are bidding this job up, I hereby offer to do it for a cool one million dollars. What do you think, Alan? I'll let you keep the video camera. Heck, you can keep the gamma detector!


    I am starting the negotiation at $1 million. Say yes today, without delay, or it goes to $2 million.

    Cool, I'm already underbidding you by 10x. Didn't you already decline to do the testing? So now all of a sudden you're interested, if the bid is a cool $million. Maybe the accusations of scam should be headed 10x in your direction.

    If he does not take the GFM page down, I suggest you contact GFM. Warn them this is a scam. I would say "he claims he will visit our lab, but we have not invited him." So they will know why you are the one warning them.

    It isn't a scam, it's a negotiation. It says right on the funding request that there are others that are perfectly suitable for the task and that any left over money would be donated to MFMP. How is that a scam other than not wanting to be cramped up in economy class for several days? I even hinted strongly on Vortex-L that it should be you being the one doing the testing, but you declined. Someone has to get past all this bullshit. Might as well be me.

    kevmo,


    Going along with Jed's theme; this does not sound kosher if you were legitimately seeking $100,000 on GFM for a trip. On my first read, I was half asleep, and it did not sink in what you were saying, but now it has. Were you seriously wanting to collect that much? If so, that is pretty brazen to ask unwitting, and gullible donors to contribute.


    Just the whole idea of using GFM to fly 1st Class, stay at a luxury hotel, fine dining, then showing up at the barn with spectrometer, and video camera in hand is just crazy, and says something about the person doing the asking. So was this for real, or am I still sleeping?

    The intention is real. 30 years from now after Cold Fusion has broken out and it's a $trillion business, $100k asking price for belling the cat is going to seem incredibly reasonable.


    It's the opening ask in negotiations, and notably the invitation to test is withdrawn. That says something. It also says something that no one who has a gamma spectrometer and the wherewithal is posting that they intend to test this device.


    The lede was deeply buried by MFMP.


    I'm doing what I can to forward the science, and I encourage others to do so as well. For instance, I posted right on the GoFundMe request that someone else could easily do the testing. So ... what is the problem?

    Strangely enough, they are perfectly relaxed about it, they don't care where the gammas come from, any more than microscope manufacturers worry about what you're looking at.

    Kevin O'Malley Mon, 13 May 2019 12:21:55 -0700

    Code
    1. Re: GoFundMe: Geiger Counter + Lab Tour to Test Atom-Ecology Claimed
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    3. Unstarred Kevin O'Malley Sat, May 11, 2019 at 8:30 PM
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    5. Unstarred Kevin O'Malley Mon, May 13, 2019 at 11:16 AM
    6. Add star AlanG<&&&&&&&&@aol.com> Mon, May 13, 2019 at 11:54 AM
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    For anonymous person on the internet, kevmolenr sure does go first class!

    Yup. First class. No need to start negotiations at economy class. Don't forget how we'd need first class video editing software and video director, to start negotiations off with.


    But the unsubtle hint is that the invitation to test has been rescinded. Someone else is gonna have to bell the cat.


    There was a time when high performance cam manufacturers would not sell their cams to airplane mechanics because they were afraid of the liability issues associated with sticking those high end cams in airplane engines. So the aircraft mechanics resorted to saying the cams were for swamp boats in the Florida Everglades.


    If a gamma ray spectrometer company found out that its device was going to be used to verify gamma rays at a cold fusion cell, their marketing department would have a heart attack. It would be an "obvious" error to find gamma rays in such a cell. So you bring in another spectograph, then another.... And let's say that the top 5 gamma spectrometer manufacturers had a head to head competition how many of them would acknowledge that gammas were detected by their devices and used properly? For such a simple task as measuring gammas, one can see that just having acceptable equipment that everyone acknowledges as working properly would start to cost quite a bit of dough, well more than that $100k I was supposing , after all the lawsuits are ironed out.


    Oh well, I'm still willing to bell this cat. Gamma rays are the key.





    One must try to help me with the math.


    1) Gamma ray detector =... let us assume, 1000$ max

    ***Training. Let us assume $5k min.


    2) Passport ??? In know a country, where an express processing would cost You 160 $

    ***It cost me $500 last time.


    3) Assuming visa ... max 100 $

    ***Assuming I'll get pulled in by customs, $500 or maybe even far more.


    4) Assuming flight, economy.

    ***Assume first class becaause I'm worth it. $5k.


    Cheapest available ,

    ***No thanks. I'd rather just give the money to someone else if they do the video. This whole construct is to address those who are willing but don't have the resources, and naturally you're assuming that we should just grovel for those resources. Wouldn't you really rather just have a Londoner drive on up and do the task?



    from , just assumed, Los Angeles to London, from July 12th to 14th, just right now searched on swoodoo, was about 630 dollars

    ***Assume I will be charging all kinds of yummie food for the trip. $1k minimum.


    5) Renting a professional camera equipment for one weekend: Assume 2000 dollars.

    ***Been there, done that. Assume $15k.


    6) Hotel in London, just searched NOW, on trivago: Apex Temple court 500 dollar.

    ***Just searched higher end hotel. Assume $5k for the trip.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    A little bit of spending: additional 500 dollar.

    = 1000 + 160 + 100 + 630 + 2000 + 500 = 4390 ( if YOU ARE REALLY into luxury )

    ...compared to what ? 100K ? 100.000 dollars ?

    ***I did a first pass run at $35k with that "little bit of spending more suitable". Wouldn't you really rather have a Londoner? Naturally, projects tend to run over-budget. I'm willing to negotiate.




    ...or the reduced amount, 50.000 dollars.

    ***Or, the Londoner at 5 pounds.


    Forgive me my mimicry, but "something does not add up"...

    ***Forgive me for the tall ask on the outset of negotiations. We're getting used to that here in America now that we have a president who's going to get Mexico to pay for the wall.


    You neglect the possibility of me sending you 50 pounds so you can cart up your experiment and bring it over here so I can take my $1k Geiger counter and pass it over your cell. I'm sure you'll enjoy flying out from London at economy class, since that is what you suggested was suitable.


    Now that we're past the stage where we are engaging mimicry at each other, the issue of who's willing to bell the cat is still standing. I'm willing to bell the cat. Where's your $5pound Londoner? Shouldn't they be done with this task already? Like this guy did for the NANOR.

    Cold Fusion/ LENR device at M.I.T. - YouTube

    Video for youtube nanor lenr cold fusion? 9:32

    Jun 9, 2013 - Uploaded by Seamus

    Here's a video of a Cold Fusion/ LENR device called the NANOR at M.I.T. It is a small, low temperature ...

    You visited this page on 5/12/19.



    If money is the issue then I'm already working on that. It only took me a few keystrokes to get started with the GoFundMe thing, and I can say unequivocally that it's a relatively painless process that doesn't take much time. So... there's that removal of excuses thing going on right there.


    Those are the elements of what it takes to bell the cat: Willingness, time, capability, wherewithal. Those who have the time and willingness are low on capability and wherewithal. Those who have the capabilty and wherewithal are low on willingness and time. Most of us can develop capability and wherewithal, but we can't really develop willingness and freed time .

    Popularity is meaningless

    Go ahead and give us a better metric, one we can all agree on. We're rapidly running out of my favorite, the Nobel Prize for P&F, since F is dead and only the living can receive it.


    I kinda like the "millionth visitor" metric for some LENR museum or something like that, because I was the millionth and first customer to visit the Star Trek Experience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Experience

    The party just in front of us got all kinds of goodies and pictures taken and free food, and we got ... delayed in line.

    I know, but one of his sockpuppets said it was viral.

    I don't know what I would consider viral, and it doesn't matter as much to me as the cat being belled. What would we all consider to be the end of the skeptopathy? That guy on Sixty Minutes was still stuck on "Make me a cup of tea" over and over again, even though stuff like transistors wouldn't have met his criteria 20 years after companies were making transistors in the hundreds of millions.


    I used to think it was being able to buy a LENR kit for $300. But that youtube only has less than 8k hits.


    1908 was the threshold year for the Wright brothers. We are not there yet for LENR. Let's call it 500 million hits on a youtube video, shall we?

    Rossi is way ahead of you. His SK video has gone viral already, and his research paper went over 20,000 hits the other day, and where has that gotten us (or him)? :)

    Average number of hits for a cold fusion video is about 13k. When it hits 13 MILLION in a few days, that's when it will be viral.

    kevmo,


    In one of RG's articles he mentioned the steady (endless) stream of visitors. Some were highly experienced, although I am not sure what they did would qualify as a validation. Nonetheless, they were impressed with what they saw. At the time, I was aware of one such group who showed up with lots of fancy equipment, and expertise in this stuff (including nuclear science), representing a very respected institution. Trust me, there is nothing you could do, they didn't do, or do it better.


    Even if you had Alan's blessings, and went through with this...what would it accomplish? I am confident from what I know, your spectrometer would show gammas consistently over background, but who would believe you, or care? Nothing personal, but as you well know, for 30 years not even the best qualified researchers in the field have been believed, or taken seriously when reporting XH, neutrons, and transmutations...so would you expect your expensive ($100,000 -give me a break :) ) validation trip to be any different?

    I intend to do what I can do, to bell this cat.


    What is being claimed at Atom-Ecology is "Impossible" according to modern physicists, and I would like to move forward on doing my part. One of these videos is gonna go viral. That is what is going to bell the cat.



    As far as excess heat, just look at what gets said here on this forum -- some kind of bullshit about measurement error. Even skeptopaths acknowledge that gamma rays above background is something that chemical cells cannot do.


    In the past, it wasn't all the fancy journals nor greatest names in science that moved the ball forward for the Wright brothers. In fact, it was the opposite. It was A.I.Root, who wrote about them in "Gleanings in Bee Culture"

    https://wrightstories.com/gleanings-in-bee-culture/

    If you want to raise money for MFMP then go do it. But don't get me (or Russ) involved in a crowd-funding campaign that was never asked for - we have specifically avoided doing that.. What doesn't add up is the idea of you being a credible validator.

    By all means, tell us who you would consider to be a credible validator and why they have not stepped forward yet. Who is going to bell the cat?

    Kev- you have zero idea. For a start you were not specifically invited, and neither did I invite 'anyone' - I invited specific people with some relevant scientific background, which I don't think you have. Also you didn't ask permission to use my image or company details on a GFM page. The answer to that would have been 'no' in any case, even if you were Edward Teller. Beyond that you don't need a gamma spec to count with, and neither would you need S100K to travel to the UK with a $1000 Geiger counter.

    Kev- you have zero idea.

    ***So you move this attempt to get to the bottom of things to Clearance Items? How does that further the science?


    For a start you were not specifically invited,

    ***Yes I was. Right here. By you.


    and neither did I invite 'anyone' - I invited specific people with some relevant scientific background,

    ***For some odd reason, they do not seem to be interested, or they don't have the "time" or can't be bothered. And when I accept your invitation, it is moved to Clearance Items. So one way or another, I'm doing what I can with what I have.


    which I don't think you have.

    ***It says right on the GoFundMe page that I'm more than happy to have someone else more qualified than me go and do the testing as long as they report back for everyone to see. None of this MFMP take-my-toys-home and tell no one what happened nonsense. I have a BSEE and 20 years experience as an Electrical Engineer, so if that isn't someone with enough background then you REALLY need to clarify your invitation.


    Also you didn't ask permission to use my image

    ***Your image is on the web. You gave everyone your permission to associate you with this Atom-Ecology project.



    or company details on a GFM page.

    ***There are no company details other than what you have provided on the web. What is the issue here?


    The answer to that would have been 'no' in any case,

    ***So you issue an invitation to test your device. I accept your invitation but don't have the means. I announce my intention to get the means, and you retract your invitation, to someone with a very pro-LENR bent. Something really doesn't add up.


    even if you were Edward Teller.

    ***So, you're retracting accepted invitations from BSEE guys who are pro-LENR, and if those guys had gigantic qualifications you still won't accept it. Something doesn't add up.


    Beyond that you don't need a gamma spec to count with,

    ***I got that information straight off the website that announced the Gammas. Just go ahead and announce what will be needed and I'll try to acquire it.


    and neither would you need S100K to travel to the UK with a $1000 Geiger counter.

    ***Sure I do. I need to pay for the gamma spectrometer, package and ship it past customs (probably quite a few questions about why someone wants to count gamma rays in London, eh?) and then buy the tickets, get the passport, arrange for transport and hotel accommodations for... say, ... 3 days. Then it's a second camera, the money for the software to put together the video, various other things to set up like a hosting website or somesuch thing, and before you know it, there goes $50k or whatever.


    If there's money left over it gets donated to MFMP. Heck, we could save a ton of money by getting someone with their own Gamma spectrometer who lives near London and has his own camera and puts up the YouTube video, but that isn't happening, is it?


    Someone has to bell the cat, and I'm willing to do it. Maybe I'm not able, but I don't see the ones who ARE able , I don't see them stepping forward willing to bell the cat.


    Alan:

    You invited me and anyone who has the means to come and test your device with a Gamma Spectrometer. This is how one goes about accepting your invitation when one does not have the means.


    I would hope that others who DO have the means would step forward but they have not.


    This IS how it is done.

    Link Removed.


    I'm setting up a GoFundMe campaign to buy a gamma spectrometer and go to London to test these cells, per Alan's invitation. It would make sense for someone more qualified to make the visit , take the measurements, and generate the YouTube video. Hint: Jed.


    @[email protected]


    TAKE this down at once please. This is entirely without my consent or any advance knowledge. I have reported your initiative to GFM. This is NOT the way to do it. ALAN