Si Chen and his team presented results on their Mizuno nickel-mesh reproduction. They were successful but they have generated much less power than Mizuno. They got about 40 Watts on average in one run, but other runs were in the single digits Watts.
LUNCH!!!
BREAK
Robert Duncan of Texas Tech introduces Melvin Miles to talk about some of the early cathodes made by the Naval Research Laboratory that contained boron, and gave excess heat "almost every time", but he wants to stress that they produced excess heat early in the experiment, after the experiment started, the excess power showed up earlier.
Martin fleischmann reported 57mW generated at 55 minutes into the experiment
Mean excess power of 38mW over the first 24 hours, in another Martin Fleischmann experiment.
Miles is showing more graphs of early excess power made by Fleischmann, and then by himself, showing excess power from these same Palladium-boron type rods.
He then went looking for errors in heat capacity, calorimetry, heat transfer coefficient, and he showed mathematical analysis on his data, proving no error erases the results. Miles is really good at math, and he calculates right down to the milliwatt.
Note: he ran the same Pd-B cathodes, and as he ran the same one in succession, the power output got bigger each time he used it.
Dr. Wang is talking about excess heat generated by samples that Melvin Miles sent him, early PdB samples getting a second look in 2018-2019. Wow, they have a beautiful cell to put all these samples in. Wang's slides are really nice.
He is reporting 21 mW +/- 7 mW.
Looks like a maximum excess power of 69 mW +/- 14 mW.
Roger Stringham reports that the temperature of plasma dropping from 10,000K to 2500K allows the deuterium to form, and, bubble cavitation causes DD -> He4 .
1.6 MHz bubble cavitation signal follows the photons emitted in rythmic pattern.
Brian Oliver measured the Helium in one of the bubble caviation experiments, Brian Oliver one of the top helium specialists in the world a few years back. Malcom Fowler measured helium, too. These experiments leave nickel bubbles, and etched patterns on the material the bubbles explode on. These experiments are continuing.
David Nagel is examining a set of input signals, and what happens as an output.
For instance, terraherz laser stimulation causes phonons, matching phonons in PdD.
Electrical impulses from Energetics Technologies, shows a decrease in input power, actually gave a bump in output power. The graph kind of bumps along. He says start pulsing your cell.
He shows SPAWARS graphic and graph of the hot spots visual, and the sounds that occured during the experiment. They actually have a video of that and it is tremendous. Nagel says this deserves more analysis.
An old Bockris experiment shows RF bumping up excess power, and that has not been reproduced, really. More can be done with this type of stimulation. Mitchell Swartz produced three papers on RF and cold fusion, and he presented some of that at ICCF22, too.
David Nagel has a knack for making a problem seem simple to understand. He is a teacher at George Washington University in D.C., so that experience really helps him communicate simply.
"We are dealing with a new paradigm of nuclear physics," he says in response to a question.
DAY 2
Larry Forsley is first up and I like his angle to introduce things: Inertial confinement, magnetic confinement, lattice confinement. Makes a natural progression for the mainstream and seems harmless. He compares a triple product of plasma density, temp, and .... for all three types of confinement fusion, and LENR makes the highest value.
Successful LENR provides SAVs/NAEs for high flux, high density hydrogen isotopes. High electron screening too.
But Forsley and the team is focused on generating charged particles with the co-deposition technique, not heat. But they are doin it day-in, day-out.
Fran Tanzella is talking about making materials now. Wow. Super cool pictures of cross-section of Brilloin's core, showing dialectric and first layer of copper, all polished.
Next picture is Pd rods in resin, an early SRI experiment.
Density, chemical analysis, surface area, volume of voids and grain boundaires, these are some of the things you should know about your sample.
X-ray diffraction can detect impurities easily.
THz spectral imaging gives same results as SEM, identifying grain boundaries, etc.
More nice pictures of multi layer coatings using energy dispersive x-ray. You can see where the all the different materials are.
Nice graph showing how they measured the tritium being transported outward from the interior of the multi-layer sample and turning into helium-3 through the outer layers that Michael McKubre showed yesterday, too.
Use all the techniques he talked about to document your work and learn more about what you're working with, the architecture, the chemistry, and then, you'll be able to reproduce the best materials that you find.
Iwamura is interested in the x-ray flourescence. ah, it's Nickel K-beta,. OK.
In about 9.5 hours from now, at 5:30PM Pacific in Eureka, Larry Forsely talks, then Fran Tanzella, then David Nagel, Milesetc.... Later Zhang will talk on reproducing Mizuno, and Celani speaks as well. These will provide more experimental results in heat-production and we will see more variety of experiments.
Transmutation talks are later on Day 2 as well.
A few theory talks are sprinkled in, too. But I'm looking for heat.
ZQ ends the day 1 by saying that the field is like a big dark building and they don't know the layout, so it's not as important to bring industry into the situation until the science is more known. He is for determining the science first and then developing a technology to make a better world for everybody. He is a science guy.
GROUP PHOTO! on Zoom. Can't wait to see that one.
VIDEOS of ICCF23 Day 1 are up already. Check this page: http://ikkem.com/iccf-23_oralab.php
Dave Nagel is now fielding questions from the entire group of 110 people, currently. This is the last session until tomorrow.
Nagel makes a point of the durability of nano-scale materials. Will the power generated be sustained over weeks months or longer? or will these materials degrade over the high-temperature runs? What is known now?
Hasegawa replies that the lab there is going step-by-step, and we will see how far they can go. He also states that unless the labs crack COP of 2-3, no one will fund them, or believe the heat is real.
Hubler asks Iwamura about the reaction surface area of his samples, and the reply was that it depends on the sample, but almost all the area of the sample produces heat, and the surface area is about 13mm circle. hubler wants to know if particles are emitted from the sample that is emitted and stays cooler then.
Ooo, a schedule change.
Sheng Hu is talking about Hydrogen Isotope Separation. This is a peripheral topic to LENR. He is enhancing protons transporting through thin, 2d material like graphene. Driving protons through a membrane, he is using this to design a hydrogen "pump". In other words, this process can make hydrogen, and also separate hydrogen from the other isotopes like deuterium,which doesn't get through the material easily.
60 MJ is generated in this process (?).
He beilieves that tritium separation can be in ratio of H/T ~ 30 times.
This lab is attempting room-temperature isotope separation, an "atomic sieve". Very interesting stuff here.
I'm awake! Trying to survey the various power outputs being reported.
Wednesday 4:30AM PDT Akito Takahashi is reporting 10W to 500 W, with current COP 1.2 from the Metal Hydrogen Energy generator. He believes he can extend to 1kW and 3-5 COP with new changes. There's a new MHE system since July 2020, but he's not reporting on those results yet.
He shows graph of one experiment with power 85 Watts generated over weeks using Palladium-Nickel-Zirconium. They make the material themselves using nanopowders.
Another set of data shows samples generating from about 10Watts up to 200 Watts, oops that's Watts/kg, for various runs on the PNZ material.
Another graph shows energy of 128 MJ over 28 days.
He ends describing possible model of reaction tied to the experimental results.
Also, this is radiation-free power. In an experiment that was generating about 40W power, there was a 3kW heat burst, but no commeasurate gamma rays or nuclear particles.
I am always happy when scientists remind us that this is safe atomic power from the hydrogen in water.
Check your email.
They need to send you a link.
Xiamen start time is 8:30AM Local Xiamen time = Eureka California 5:30PM Pacific Local time and
London and Rome https://www.worldtimebuddy.com…e=2021-6-8&sln=17-18&hf=2
Reykjavic and Yekaterinaberg https://www.worldtimebuddy.com…e=2021-6-8&sln=17-18&hf=2
Santiago, Washington D.C., Moscow
Any suggestions what kind of physics is occurring here?
Robert Godes models his Brillouin Hot Tube technology with a Controlled Electron Capture process, but others have different models. The actual theory is still unknown.
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This time we had the honor of interviewing Jacques Ruer, French Engineer and long time active researcher of LENR.
Here is a partial transcript:
---First, you've just come off of the 2020 RNBE meeting, for French CMNS scientists to exchange ideas, and you gave the Introductory talk. Describe what you talked about. What did you discuss in your introduction?
JR: OK, you are talking about our RNBE meeting. This needs some explanations. In France we have our own association dealing with cold fusion. Simply because we need an organisation for French speaking people. Not everybody here likes to read papers in English or worse is able to listen to speeches in English. That's a fact.
So, this association is the société française de la science nucléaire dans la matière condensée, in understandable French French society for condensed matter nuclear science. The object of the association is LENR, in French RNBE. Last month we held our 3rd RNBE meeting RNBE2020. Because of the pandemic situation RNBE2020 was organized as a virtual meeting. The amazing result was that much more people joined the meeting than during the previous ones. May be because it was cheaper to participate and thre were no travelling costs. May be also because the subject attracts more and more people. We had participants coming from California to Russia, with many of them discovering the subject.
So, I made the introductory talk mainly to introduce the subject to new comers, giving the basic information already familiar to our listeners today, about Pons & Fleichsmann's history, the proofs of excess heat, the absence of neutrons, of gamma rays etc. I also pushed forward the message that the term cold fusion is too restrictive because what we see in the experiments is much more various than the fusion of deuterons into helium. We see reactions with protons. We see reactions with palladium but also nickel, titanium, other metals. We see transmutations. We are far from the initial cold fusion concept. I propose, at least for the moment, to describe what we study as Hydrogen-Metal-Energy, a term forged in Japan by Takahashi. It describes in a simple way what we are looking at with no pretention concerning the deep phenomena at play. The day a complete theory accepted by all will exist we will change the name again for the last time.
I also took this opportunity to say our satisfaction for the support of the European Commission to 2 research projects. The 2 projects financed are called HERMES and CleanHME. It is a great leap forward to receive an official support from such a large organization. The visibility may prove more important than the money received. Personally I have the pleasure to be involved in CleanHME for the engineering aspects of the project.
---Jacques Ruer, you gave an Energy Production Policy talk at the The Clean Hydrogen Metal Energy project Kickoff session. Talk about that project. What is the Clean Hydrogen Metal energy Project about? What is the mission? Are labs working separately? or collaborating?
JR: The CleanHME project adresses the topics required in the call for proposals from the European Commission. To describe the mission let me quote what was written in this European call :
“Breakthrough concepts and techniques for generating heat and/or electricity efficiently with zero emissions and with a minimal use of rare or toxic materials. Research areas could include, for example, long duration high heat sources from hydrogen-metal systems (e.g., using nickel), energy generation in plasma and cavitation systems. These or any other concepts with high energy density and low-cost energy generation capabilities should be harnessed to make them usable for specific application contexts. Clear and ambitious performance targets and milestones to achieve them shall be provided.”
The project duration is 4 years. The labs are collaborating together. The collaboration includes the exchange of information, the exchange of samples between labs that are able to manucfature sample materials and other labs that are able to test them, discussion and replication of the results, etc.
The target is really ambitous. Should these 2 projects succeed, the World could be changed completely because the access and the use of energy shape the world we live in in a great extent.
As you say, I made the Energy Production Policy talk at the CleanHME project Kickoff session. Because I used to work on renewable energies in the past I also have a broad view on climate change and on the impact of fossil fuels energy. The big question we are facing now is to determine how fast we need to make the transition of energy supply in order to make sure we avoid a catastrophic climate change. We don't have a clear answer to this question now. So we should act as fast as possible in order to never have to discover the answer. Because in the future answer might very well be what we should have done in the past to avoid the catastroph, in other words too late.
---Last ICCF-22 in 2019, you gave a talk on the basics of mass flow calorimetry - which was a really good break down on how it operates optimally - in order to better understand the reports of big heat from veteran researcher Tadahiko Mizuno and his palladium-rubbed nickel-mesh reactor.
What did you learn about that reactor, and what do you think about it now, as labs around the world still are attempting to reproduce the method, and none having the same success?
JR : Again I have the eye of the engineer. I was greatly intrigued by Mizuno's experiment. I cannot judge the profound results concerning the reactions in the reactor itself, but air flow calorimetry is a technique that be can analyzed in terms of classical physics, I would say in engineering terms. And when you study airflow calorimetry you start to realize there are many parameters involved, and that some of them are difficult to control. For example you have to measure the mass of air flowing through the system and the air temperatures at the inlet and the outlet. It may be hard to believe but these parameters are not easy to measure accurately. Also, heat transfer between the hot reactor and the calorimeter enclosure is complicated. For example, air is transparent to infrared, so the heat radiated by the hot surface of the reactor is not captured directly by the airflow, but indirectly. It is complicated. A careful calibration of the calorimeter must be done. It is the only solution to obtain reliable results but even calibration has some difficulties. So, if we want to compare the results obtained by different labs it is necessary to go into details of the complete system used in each case. By the way, it would be advisable to describe a common protocol that could be used by everybody.
---You've done some analysis of catastrophic events and in fact offered a scenario for the 1985 experiment by Fleischmann and Pons, which “destroyed an experiment, burned through the supporting bench and produced significant damage in the concrete floor." --Overview of ICCF21 by Nagel and Kandinsky Well, there's a bit of a discrepancy on how big that hole bench was. In fact, we just published a comic book saying it was a big as a fist, but others dispute that and say it was as big as a thumb. Do you know how big that 1-cm-cube Pd meltdown was?
JR: Well, it is true I have done the analysis of some catastrophic events. When I do this my starting point is always : "is it possible to explain the catastrophic event with conventional physics ?"
The first event I investigated was the strong explosion that occurred at Jean-Paul Bibérian's lab in 2004. The electrolyser was shuttered by an explosion so violent that Jean-Paul put forward the question "Was there an atomic origin?".
When you look at the physics of explosion in hydrogen-oxygen mixes you learn that you can get a middle deflagration or a violent detonation. If you try to replicate the explosion in a tube filled by a mix of hydrogen and oxygen you only get a gentle deflagration. Except that in some cases the initial deflagration flame transits into a very strong shockwave. This is well known and called SWACER for Shock Wave Amplification by Coherent Energy Release. I made my own experiments and I am now able to reproduce such detonations in a setup similar to the one used by Jean-Paul. I tell you these explosions are surprisingly strong.
I think we should do such analyzes in order we refrain ourselves to advocate nuclear mechanisms when conventional physics coupled with simple experiments can explain the events. Some day we will attract the attention of mainstream scientists. They will discover that we wrote mistakes in the past. It will be detrimental for the credibility of all of us. So, we should avoid unnecessary mistakes.
When I presented my results in Italy David French came to me and asked me "Jacques could you study if conventional physics could explain the hole observed with this 1cm cube palladium meltdown?" David was a friend we miss now. I accepted the challenge and started to look at the problem, again with the starting point from conventional physics. I made a model. And I calculated that a cube of palladium saturated with deuterium coming into contact with air can heat up the metal to red hot temperatures because of the chemical reaction between the hydrogen coming out of the metal and the air oxygen . This phenomenon was observed a few times by Ed Storms and other researchers. So, the calculation has some validity. Beyond that, if you want to stick to classical physics you have to imagine a credible scenario why the cube goes in contact with air, why an explosion occurs, why the explosion is so violent, why it creates a hole on the floor. You can imagine a scenario, and I did it, but I must admit it remains difficult to explain a large hole on the bench and on the floor. A small one, may be, a large one is largely speculation. I would like to have an archeologist in our community to go to room 1331 at the basement of the Eyring lab at Utah university. He could find out remnants of the event by looking at the repairs on the floor. I would very much like to know the results.
---Well, we've got to wrap it up, but before we go, Jacques Ruer, talk about some of the ways you see LENR changing the World.
JR: Cold fusion, or LENR, or Hydrogen-Metal-Energy, depending as we name it, can offer new clean energy sources without any emission detrimental for the environment. For the moment it is still a dream but we have now good reasons to think that this dream will come alive soon or later.
It will take some time to transform the energy world we know into the new one, simply because there are huge implications at every level. Just think at the production of coal, oil and gas, at the automotive or aircraft industries, at the international trade and the financial fluxes between energy producing countries and energy consuming countries, the geopolitical consequences, etc.
Like any revolution in technology we are going first to face some reluctancy to accept the change. And suddenly the situation will flop over and everybody will push to adopt it. That day will come and we are working for it to happen.
December in Eureka..California.. temperature goes down to 5C or less
cold talks are cool..
Yes, especially at 6AM when it was still dark. I had a coffee for help.
I just lay it out there. Anything to save the planet.
You need to adjust the lighting and microphone. You need to move back from the microphone. A virtual background with a green screen might help. Montgomery Childs had the right equipment, lighting and delivery.
It should be apparent that we have absolutely no shame and are compelled to continue despite serious deficiencies. We will do better. Nevertheless, however it rolls, we roll with it brother.
I haven’t been able to watch it in full but I am impressed by the level of the interview so far, I think this is a great first release for the series, I have really liked what I have seen so far, and Monty seems very comfortable even if the questions are very deep.
Congratulations to the team for such a fine work, I am really proud of LENR-forum.
Hi Curbina! I hope we can make the interviews short enough for people to watch, but long enough to get a good update. But sometimes, there's so much to talk about, things just don't quit! But for a first interview with a scientist, getting a base knowledge and vocabulary to talk about and understand can take longer. We needed some more background on the SAFIRE Project to know what it is. But there will be really great updates from that team in the future, so by then we'll be able to make a short and tight update.
Discover Cold Fusion' comic is soon to be available as an ebook
From Neil at Curtis Press. direct people to our site. http://www.curtis-press.com
We are soon to publish a book by (Edo Kaal) .
Hey Alan thanks for posting that; I didn't get the memo! I knew it was in the works, and am glad to hear it's soon! There has been some interest in translating the comic to Spanish, so we may be able to do that more easily now.
THANK YOU LENR-forum for allowing Matt Howarth's gorgeous cover access to your front page. I love the look!
Excellent news Edo Kaal's book being published by Curtis-Press too. They are developing a very unique catalog.
THANK YOU so much for your support for this project. That cover looks great!
That sure did take a while Curbina.
I hope your cat likes it too.
