I wonder what Mizuno is doing wrong to not be getting same responses and delight people.
Maybe someone actually took them up on their offer to test their device, and they did not really want that? Hardly anything on their website now like you said. There goes another hopeful as far as I am concerned. The commercial side of LENR seems chock full of these type companies. Like a desert mirage; they look so enticing from afar, but disappear when you get close enough for a good look.
No idea, seems like someone took their offer and possibly has an NDA in place now, I suppose, military elements? IDK.
I think it's military due to their board of members being composed of some high power former officials from within the government of the US.
Gotta power those new laser weapons, tanks, and rail-guns somehow, yea? Can't really have a nuclear reactor on a F-35 or Abrams tank.
I asked one of the Rossi team about scaling up the Q-X. The response was- yes you can make it bigger- but the bigger they are the harder they are to keep stable and to ignite.
That seems to be an engineering problem, and not a theoretical one.
Wouldn't it also be cheaper and more efficient to build one large LENR based device than compiling many smaller one's? I might be wrong on this though due to my superficial understanding of the problems associated with controlling a LENR based device.
For example, Brillouin Energy Corporation decided to go with large scale LENR based devices, but got stuck on achieving a high COP. I wonder why?
Meltdown's of Quark units seems more likely than having a larger E-cat, that could be controlled more precisely. No?
Reduce the area of the radiant power for the Stefan-Boltzmann equation to the dimensions suggested above, and the apparent problem goes away.
Yeah, but why do that if a larger E-cat with more surface area can deal with that along with maximizing the COP?
Mats Lewan posted this in the, Energy 2.0 Society to Hold Webcast with Andrea Rossi as Guest, December 9, 2017, thread over at E-CatWorld:Quote
The dimensions of the plasma in the QX gives an effective volume of 3 mm^3. Releasing 30W this means 10GW/m^3. If you add the electrical power produced, which apparently is released as heat in the control system (as Rossi admits in the comment above), you'll need to multiply this by 3 or 4... Considering heat-electricity conversion, that's the same order of magnitude, or a couple of times more, than the total installed power in Swedish nuclear plants (about 7GW), providing about half of Sweden's electricity.
Is this incorporating the fact that the COP was at 500 or assuming the 'real' COP to be ~1500?
My thoughts are... wow!, this really seems to be an amazing amount of power density in such a small space. However, in practice I doubt this would be achievable.
Edit: I think, what seems the rational thing to do is build larger E-cats that would house the plasma generated in them. I would expect better results and possibly a higher COP than with small Quark-X's.
No idea, though I doubt they are a fake company.
I was wondering if their device can be used to produce electricity with nickle or more energetic materials via LENR. The ideal is to utilize alpha particles for direct electrical production.
They seem to have updated their website with no mention of 3rd party testing anymore. They also describe their device as operating on LENR based mechanism. They also don't offer the patent anymore along with the Lipinski paper on instantaneous gravity.
I feel as though having Rossi direct the whole research and development of his LENR based device as slow and not very productive. How long has it been, some 7 to 8 years and we're still stuck trying to control the device.
Does anyone else feel that Rossi is either not competent enough or is just stifling progress?
Anything new from me356?
He seems to be more competent and productive than Rossi. Hope he makes it first to the market...
I also wanted to ask if me356 is aiming for large units that are more suitable for electrical production rather than many small units assembled together?
If possible is me356 getting COPs near or better than Rossi?
I've been interested in whether LENR scales well for large scale energy production. This seems to be the only area government and other large-scale entities are interested in. As it seems, LENR, doesn't seem to scale well, and hence the lack of interest of government agencies or in general about it. Any ideas or thoughts about LENR and scaling for multi megawatt or even gigawatt energy production?
Don't be shoot the messenger , Prometheus . eagles await you
Well, I never payed much attention to the skeptics. The evidence is overwhelming at this point. Now, I just can't wait for the final product.
I wanted to start a thread about the QuarkX, but I'll ask it here.
Does the QuarkX scale well? Can a larger device be made or is Rossi just going to manufacture many QuarkX's and put them together into a shipping container? I ask because it seems to me that the QuarkX isn't meant for 100 MW type industrial energy production. There are better designs out there for scaling LENR reactions on 100MW+ industrial energy production.
Where did this 'need for justification' idea come from? That is in your own head. You can know zero what is in mine. My mission is to report on what I saw. We can have some more fun when I upload the 200mB of video I have of rossi in action. If the elusive livestream remains elusive it might be all you get.
Well, that's the point. You don't feel any need to justify believing in Rossi's claim anymore due to the demo, am I correct?
I think they have gotten to Alan. Maybe spiked his beer? He went there to report, and all of a sudden, he gets tight lipped.
One more try before you go to bed Alan. In general terms, after the test, do you:
1. Feel better about the QX technology.
2. Feel about the same as before. This test was undefinitive.
3. Feel less optimistic.
3. Feel like you had too many beers.
If anything he feels vindicated in his beliefs by the demo and feels no need to justify himself to skeptics anymore.
I heard there were lots of representatives from Japan or interested parties.
Hope something comes out of this demo in terms of reactor designs and implementation by GO's or NGO's.
Looking at their reactor tho, my impression was that replicating such would require huge resources...
Yes, that's an issue that only large scale manufacturers can address. I hope it works out for anyone interested in replication attempts.
Most other followers of LENR still beleive in the fusion myth as must you also. Rossi thinks differently, and correctly, and in this clear sighted belief alone his is most worthy.
I think, I stated 15 minutes ago that there are other people involved in LENR who are not getting nowhere near the amount of attention Rossi is getting. The fanaticism with Rossi is strong here.
LENR is not a study, it is a paradigm that must be born for the benefit and advancement of all humankind. Like any turning point in history, it is political, a movement that will benefit from a cult mentality with a leader like iron at its head. There soon begins a coming battle in the marketplace, in the courtroom, on the internet, where the adversaries are truly fearsome. Rossi has already proven his mettle in the courtroom and was shown to be strong, equal to the fight, a winner when most others would have failed and succumb
I rest my case, you really are fanatical about Rossi. I hope you have as much enthusiasm in regards to other people involved in the field. If not, then you're just a loud shill for Rossi.
Like all the others that you lionize, what have they produced, what have they accomplish, who do the enemies of LENR hate the most, fear the most? How many years will LENR languish in mediocrity? We have our hero now, he can do the job, He is the leader of our tribe, he walks point and takes the hits and brushes them off like specks of dust untouched and unphased. He is best to weather the storms that are yet to come, and surely they will come with a vengeance.
A overzealous apologetic cult like mentality surely isn't an reductio ad absurdum, especially in this realm of studies?
LENR needs a hero, someone to be emulated and act a template for excellence, accomplisment and caring. We need Rossi as our hero.
I'm afraid that's a non-sequitur, because Rossi has not yet earned that status as you've described. He has yet to; but, his true colors have been shown to the masses via the court proceedings. Maybe it's a case of the end justifies the means with Rossi.
I have hopes that the fixation with Rossi doesn't detract from the science being discussed. Time will tell; but, in the meantime I have higher hopes from other interested participants in the field of LENR.
All things considered, LENR is a real phenomenon as evidence by multiple papers, patents, and corporations having replication attempts being formed around the technology.
I really hope the enshrinement around Rossi could stop or at least be toned down. For the matter, there are better and more qualified people working on LENR from different angles.
My point is not to have Rossi represent the efforts of a whole multitude of people involved in LENR.
IMO they're well aware, that their arrangement as published isn't suitable for industrial scale. And their publications describe the whole process well.
I don't think their reaction scales well. They're limited by the surface are and output energy of Li-7 in fusion settings with hydrogen, which I think is significantly less than other LENR setups. Anyway, like I said, a COP or almost 4k along with direct energy production is sufficient for most individual needs.
You mean they CLAIM a COP of whatever... which is not the same as having it. Not only would 16kW be enough to power thinggies like you say, but, way more important, it would do away with any need for input power of ANY SORT to the device. So, for example, it should be able to run on a glass table in the middle of a parking lot, under continuous observation for weeks or months without any input power, right? That would be very easy to test. Want to bet that test will NEVER be done?
You know that money doesn't grow on trees, right? What's with this paranoid levels of skepticism around here?
Do not ask for actual math or actual proof.
1: "Rossi says" trumps any math. Do not question what he states. "Rossi says" is equal to truth. Math is an inconvenient truth. There was a heat exchanger regardless of the math.
2: Keeping IP or Trade secrets from the competition is ALWAYS the reason why real math or real facts cannot be given. You cannot know the customer, the voltage, the resistance or anything that might actually be "proved", because the competition will immediately grab it and make an air tight patent from it! Just like they have done with the eCat, the Hot Cat, the Gas Cat, the 1MW plant etc.
3. Measuring the voltage would have "given the baby" away! Yet if "seems to me" backing into the formula finds the voltage, this does no harm to IP! You see, only if "Rossi says" the voltage, does it actually give IP away! To the believers, eCat facts are like the split slot experiment.... the facts only condense into a measurable particle when "Rossi says", otherwise they are indeterminate!
No use arguing. It is a religion.
I would like to invite you to a more reasonable company rather than this cult of Rossi says. Care to try and organize a replication attempt of Unified Gravity device with MFMP? They have a COP of 3710, which is astounding for a direct DC electric production of around 16kW, more than enough to power a house or run a car.
According to the patent disclosed they were getting a COP near a 1000, is that correct? If so, I don't see how Rossi can compete with a device with such a COP and direct DC electric production, much similar to LPP Fusion, just with a significantly lower output power, but then again for home use or to have such a device in a car, then 15 kW is more than enough.
According to Mr. Rossi, the QuarkX produces a voltage potential when in operation and with negligible internal resistance. But he also has clarified that it is not enough electrical energy to be of much use. The primary output is heat.
Aren't the ion setup for direct electric harvesting superior to the heat emitting LENR devices? Removes the hassle with the Carnot cycle and need for Sterling engines.
I just think that if the COP is high enough in Rossi's devices, that could offset the 'low' energy gains lost from heat to energy production.
Are LENR setups like Rossi's able to create energy directly into electricity, similar to Unified Gravity or LPP Fusion setups?