Posts by seven_of_twenty

    That's all very nice and good. I once worked on a project several decades ago when instrumentation was not as sophisticated and computerized as now. It involved measuring a couple of millivolts in a noisy environment. There was also data logging and other functions involved but this is about low level, low frequency voltage measurement. Two sources provided devices to the Navy. One was supplied by a major university research lab and the other by a small private company. The university opted for conventional technology with high impedance inputs. They thought they had properly filtered those inputs but they had not. The second company used an unconventional approach of a low impedance input which was much less sensitive to ambient noise spikes from motors and other nearby gear. They compensated for the low impedance by appropriate calibration using simulated sensors.


    The device which disregarded the issue of induced noise from "spikey" power in the lab area, was never stable and adequate and had to be discarded as a failure. There was no time due to project constraints to try debugging it extensively. The device which made every possible effort to screen for and remove stray signals and spikes worked fine from the start.


    The university lab did not lack experts. It is not unusual for experts to mismeasure low level signals for whatever reason. Some eventually correct their procedures, some don't. Tanzella may be great and he still could be paying too little attention to possible errors due to noise from the famous HF pulse source employed by Brillouin. Or from other sources. When one gets what one sees as strongly positive results, there is pressure not to question much or make changes.


    This is why replication by an independent source using first the same method and later also using different measurement methods and calibrations is desirable before pronouncing that the results indicate an exceedingly important and promise-filled discovery.


    I'm with THHuxleynew on this one.

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    You claimed they did not calibrate, so I doubt you read it in the first place. In any case, if you are not going to read it, I suggest you refrain from commenting on it. How can you even tell if there are lies or any indication of criminality if you don't even read it? When there are lies in a report of this nature, such as the Penon report, they are usually obvious.


    I was and I assumed others were talking about the multitude of Rossidemos with the steam ecats that Lewad, Levi, Kullander and Essen endorsed. Other "demos" had other infelicities. Rossi is mostly but not entirely an idiot.



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    seven_of_twenty wrote:

    However what I recall from discussions is that the errors in that experiment involved the input power rather than the output.


    JedRothwell wrote I doubt that. High bandwidth three-phase power analyzers are pretty reliable in my experience. The on-off cycles were not extreme and could easily be measured with this kind of instrument. I do not see how the heat balance would have been zero if the input power was measured incorrectly.


    You doubt it because you emphasize reading and rereading Rossi and Levi while neglecting to read the critiques on the internet. Of course you don't see because you never question enough. Best I recall, one phase of the supposed "y" configuration was misconnected or unconnected but the calculations assumed it was correct. Your take on reading papers from improbable claimants and claims is what continues to make many people not believe you.


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    You cannot challenge me on this, because you refuse to read the paper. You will have to take my word for it, won't you? That's the disadvantage of your strategy toward cold fusion evidence, which is to cover your ears and yell out "Nanny-nanny boo boo! I can't hear you!!!" That does not convince other people.


    What a crock! I read the paper when it came out, that was quite enough. Yes, I refuse to waste another hour or two on rereading Rossi's effluvia. Your continuous challenge of skeptics on the basis they don't read is laughable.

    I am certainly not going to reread a several year old report of an incompetent and negligent experiment, designed by a liar and a criminal. However what I recall from discussions is that the errors in that experiment involved the input power rather than the output. Apparently, Rossi screwed around with unnecessary three phase power. There would be no reason to do that except to cheat. And cheat he probably did (from other people's remarks about errors in wiring and calculations of power readings.) Remember, sleight of hand can'r be repeated the same way for the same audience. Most of the time early on, Rossi messed with the steam output end. Later on he found other ways.


    You are right about one thing. Input cheating won't be caught by output measurement calibration!

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    Even big shots can make mistakes. A good example is Focardi's inability to recognize that the steam being emitted by Rossi's Ecat was wet (i.e., containing large amounts of unevaporated water) and that the instrument being used to assess this was unsuited to the job (it could only measure evaporated moisture, not unevaporated water droplets) . That led to a huge overestimate of the amount of heat being generated.

    Actually that was not the mistake. The major incomprehensible error by everyone who looked at Rossi's claims early on (Focardi, Levi, Lewan, Kullander, Essen, etc. etc.) was a failure to obtain or require adequate blank or so-called "dummy" runs and calibrations. And yeah, the people who did not demand such controls were indeed dummies. Calibration and blank runs are fundamental principles of any scientific measurement. Apparently, whoever evaluated ecats or hotcats for Darden and IH before they bought in, made the same error or for some other reason did piss poor calorimetry. Expensively piss poor as we now know. Attention to calibration/blanking would have revealed any errors in the output power measurements regardless of method used to measure. This was extensively discussed by many in several forums therefore failure to comply was inexcusable and incredibly incompetent.


    BTW, I could be wrong but I don't recall Alan Fletcher being much concerned with proper calibration of Rossi's devices. IIRC, he was delving into doubtfully relevant minutia, all of which could have been circumvented with one good calibration run done by someone other than Rossi using other than Rossi equipment and methods. If I'm wrong, I am sure he will set the record straight. Early on, a lot of loud voices were extolling Rossi's prowess and accomplishments and insulting and banning anyone who disagreed in anything like a persuasive or assertive manner. While skeptics can't stop a working device from succeeding, acolytes who suppress skeptical expression can promote scams and that is exactly what happened with Rossi.

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    That is my Rossi. He blocked the Swedes out well over 6 months ago. Lied to Kullander about the fuel ash sample. Fabiani gave up on him, although still believes in the tech. Now his most loyal friend since 1996 -Cassarino, kicked to the curb. The man sure knows how to reward loyalty! I believe though Ampenergo (Cassarino's company for dealing with Rossi matters) still has the North American license? jtomas might know more about that than me though.

    Yes, Rossi shafted everyone he did business with without exception. He never provided anything of value to anyone ever. He is a consummate con man. He is nothing whatever other than a complete liar and crook.

    jtomas


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    I can only guess that the Doral tech was not scalable and not realiable, in the sense that Rossi needed to micromanage it almost 24/7. Process control was not even close to be totally automatized. With the QX and SK its a whole different story. Process control is instant and does not rely on the intuition of Rossi on what is going to happen in an hour if flow/heat of whatever is changed now.

    How in the world do you know any of that? Are you living inside Rossi's non-existent lab coat?


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    Shane D. likes this.

    OMG! Why?


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    No, not as far as I can see reading through it again. What section do you mean? It seems like the only real goal for IH was to get the full IP and replicate what Rossi was doing by themselves. (it is stated many times). Having Rossi running the Doral plant and showing that it works, had no value to them if they already had the sauce. Especially since the $89M was due after a successful test... Since they did not have all of the sauce they needed Rossi to continue and they needed the plant as a marketing tool to raise money. Therefore all vagueness and and focus on not upsetting Rossi. Also looks like Cassarino tipped Rossi off about them not going to accept Penon halfway through the test. Kind if stupid telling Cassarino about their strategy and not Rossi. Of course Rossi was pissed recieving that email!!!

    Paranoid crockery. IH thought Rossi might have something in which case, if they could develop it a bit, prove it worked and tie it up with patents. Then, they could make billions. There would be no reason not to give Rossi a modest share he was asking for. None at all. Whether he ever gave them anything else or not. Of course they would not pay unless they had a working device and understood how to make working devices. Who in their right mind would? I have no idea what this sort of prattling is all about.

    -----------------------------------

    JedRothwell

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    Another example I heard was at a county fair, a farmer explained to some kids how to milk a cow. A few minutes later the parents showed up, fit to be tied. (Angry, that is.) "How dare you tell our children such a thing! That's gross! It's obscene." It took a while for the farmer to persuade them that milk really does come from cow's udders

    I strongly suspect that this story is apocryphal. The reason I say that is that everyone knows where human milk comes from so the analogy is pretty straightforward.

    The bear and child story I am less sure about. People do get out of cars in Africa to pet wild lions and as often as not, end up as dinner for the lions. So it's improbable but sadly, possible.

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    Why would anyone seriously think that Rossi has any IP?

    Because Rossi said so many time in his respected Journal of Nuclear Physics, you silly wabbit!


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    Good to have someone well informed about the Rossi story speak up in his defense.

    Nobody with at least a double digit IQ, truly well informed about what Rossi has said and done in the past would defend any of it.

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    Only on Planet Rossi is this possible. Malice might be the right word but libel seems to be a better fit...

    Cryptic. IMO. Who libeled whom, Woodsie?


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    BTW: SOT keeps saying they did not know Rossi's past until after putting their money down, but they did.

    Oh, OK. So their conversation may have been something like this?


    Executive 1: Hey, Boss, before we invest an unrecoupable $11.5 million in Rossi and his claims, shouldn't we do better tests of his strange looking "reactors?"

    Boss: Sure. Ask Rossi to show you the tests or ask his colleagues the Swedish scientists or Dr. Levi how it works.


    Executive 1: Well, they all say it works but I want to hire a major testing lab to redo the tests in our facility so we and our hired experts can watch them.

    Boss: Why bother? Why not trust Rossi?


    Executive 1: Well for openers, how about that he is a convicted felon in Italy?

    Boss: Oh, you get that from that idiot Krivit and skeptopaths on the internet. It can't be true, that nice old guy. And it doesn't matter if the ecat works.


    Executive 1: How about that Rossi cheated DOD out of millions for thermoelectric converters which ended up being junk?

    Boss: I asked Rossi about that and he said there was a fire and that was why he gave them junk.


    Executive 1: Oh, OK. Guess that explains that. But Rossi has no qualifications in nuclear physics or really any physics or engineering.

    Boss: That's not what he says. I saw right on his web site that he has a doctorate and lots of experience and was a world class runner when he was young.


    Executive 1: OK then, so I just give him the $11.5 million and a loosely written contract for $89M more? More or less on his say so? Because we don't trust Krivit and skeptopaths? You sure you don't want more tests?

    Boss: No more tests. Wasted time. Despite being an environmental destroyer, a crook and an inveterate liar, Rossi is worthy of the trust and risk. I mean who believes skeptopaths, anyway? just think if they're wrong and Rossi's gadget really works, how great that will be? Give him the money and the contract.

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    When it comes to what you are saying; that IH acted like scumbags...I disagree. The one thing they did have trouble explaining was why they continued using Doral to attract investments, when they clearly had doubts. I never saw a good answer for that in all the depositions. Other than that, I would say IH bent over backword to cater to his mercurial nature. Those same depositions though, show Rossi to be an exceptionally deceitful person. Just no getting around that no matter how loyal you are to the man, or how much you may dislike IH.


    There is nothing I have seen in the record to suggest malice on the part of IH. There is plenty to show that they were negligent and incompetent in vetting Rossi and his ridiculous claims before offering him millions.


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    I'll be writing to Woodford - and others-, pointing out that they could do with a scientifically competent skeptic among their advisors and analysts. I'll do it for a few hundred K a pop, and potentially save them millions! (actually I might take myself seriously - my track record in rejecting dodgy inventors is rather good, and the couple I thought would do pretty well actually did so, although the price was too high for us at the time)


    At least one billionaire who considered investing in Rossi and Rossi-derived projects did his homework, asked for information from a variety of skeptics and declined to invest. At least one large company (in Australia IIRC) did this also. NASA apparently also performed due diligence about Rossi and offered him nothing without thorough testing. Mysteriously, Darden and IH were largely flummoxed by Rossi and only found out he was a crook by accident! Pretty sad story.

    I rarely if ever approve of banning but one valid criterion is the occupation of a lot of space with irrelevant unfocused verbiage (or sometimes people put in blank space) which makes the forum very difficult to follow for the average reader. Shane D. seems to think there is some value in the incoherent and often offensive nonsense posted by [email protected] . I'm curious what that value is, Shane.

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    someone who I view as a temper tantrum throwing immature child, [ref to [email protected] ]

    I think it's far more than that. I won't hazard more of a specific diagnosis in deference to the forum owners. Two obvious symptoms, however, are tangentiality and verbal diarrhea.

    [email protected] is in luck. Brillouin is accepting investments in substantial amounts and I bet if he were to ask Rossi, the Giant of Bodena would be pleased to take his cash as well. So Kev, put your money where your mouth (or the other end of your GI tract) is. And do come back in a year or two and let us know how much money you made.

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    Then why the hell does Rossi, AA, etc. make such a huge deal about keeping the name of the customer secret? And if it is truly the huge corporation that Rossi claims, then they have a PR department, and lawyers, used to handling exposures such as this.

    Rhetorical, yes? Rossi's privacy argument made some vague sense in 2011. Since the October 2011 so-called demo of the so-called megawatt plant, powered by a giant Diesel generator, Rossi's fraud should have been transparent to all. After 8 years of promoting his fraud to anyone who would listen, he thinks privacy is important now?

    True crackpots argue about the venue, the moderation, what they think other forum participants are thinking, motivations, beliefs and so on. They do so vociferously, incoherently, impolitely and at length. They never argue the science or the facts or what actually happened. Rossi attracts them like flies on ... well, you know.


    Any resemblance to a current participant is purely coincidental. 8o

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    But he cannot simultaneously be a genius con-man as portrayed by some or a genius maverick scientist as portrayed by others and a moron. So not many points for this description.

    Rossi is not a genius con man nor is he a complete moron. My personal opinion is that he probably has average intelligence but is significantly mentally ill, starting with sociopathy. Interesting to me has always been that people believe him even though he has very little scientific education and absolutely no legitimate experience in science or technology work. He has never made or sold anything which works in his entire life. He has no resume at all except for his cons!


    Like most con men, Rossi seems affable and bright when he wants to be. He fools mostly people who are extremely desirous of cold fusion being real. The other thing interesting to me is that people have believed Rossi and invested in him without ever requiring decent controlled/blanked/calibrated experiments performed by a major testing organization.


    Maybe the most amazing feature of Rossi's low grade mediocre scam is that so many people believe all sorts of things about Rossi's physical and intellectual prowess simply based on Rossi web sites or regurgitated Rossi claims on fan sites like e-catworld.com.


    So to answer Alan Smith , Rossi is not a moron but his scam is not a genius scam either. Most scams are not. Most scams are pretty transparent to skeptical people and fool only a small minority of believers. Even Madoff's epic scam did not fool some of the more skeptical investment experts. Sadly, their warnings went unheeded.

    We have to realize Rossi will never be able to sell his products openly because they will be immediately be copied by the rabid competition which is waiting breathlessly to copy Rossi. So what is Rossi to do? Sell heat of course. They can't copy heat! Rossi showed them!

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    Brillouin is a legitimate company with employees, licensees, and investors. They read LF, and Godes/George have even written a few posts here over the years. You tried to smear their reputation by providing a reference you misread, and misinterpreted, that actually was to their benefit. I doubt Brillouin thought I was being patronizing in pointing that out.

    Neither did I. I agreed with you. It was the rest of it.

    BTW, it's difficult and time consuming to trace what Brillouin claimed and stated in the past because most links are dead. Between Sterling Allan ending up in prison essentially for life, and probably some other people cleaning up, there is little left of their early IMO extravagant claims.



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    If you are going to try and discredit a person, or company, the least you could do is your homework, and failing to do that... at least man up to the consequences.

    But I did! How many mea culpa's do you need? BTW, "man up" is a sexist remark. Remember that the current movement is #metoo.

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    When Rossi is long gone and the Ecat or all of its variants are nothing but whispers having never produced a measurable milliwattnanosecond of energy, what will you say then?


    Chances are he will continue to the Next Great Thing That Doesn't Work (NGTTDWtm)