https://www.statnews.com/2020/…sessing-covid-19-vaccine/
"Vaccine experts say Moderna didn’t produce data critical to assessing Covid-19 vaccine" <-headline
seven_of_twenty
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Posts by seven_of_twenty
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So, you'd use it anyway for pneumonia, and that is a likely complication of severe COVID.
The problem is that it (doxycycline) has not been proven to prevent or treat COVID-19 *and* that giving it widely will greatly promote antibiotic resistance in bacteria which are the major targets of this extremely useful widespectrum anti-bacterial antibiotic.
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More of the politicization and demonization of HCQ. Two cardiologists' opinions --
Even without reading all of it, there is no doubt whatever that HCQ and probably even HCQ with AZI are safe in the vast majority of people. Long experience treating and preventing malaria, as well as with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis says that. The problems are that:
1) the benefits are very unclear at the moment... it is even unclear if there is any benefit at all and...
2) rheumatologists and infectious disease specialists who prescribe the drug(s) do so with precautions to prevent or predict complications. People just taking the drug they got who-knows-where do not and ...
3) nobody knows for sure but it is likely that COVID-19 infection, because it attacks the heart, may make the complications worse (as suggested by the pretty awful VA study we hear so much about)
So, if the president wants to take HCQ, fine. But he should have kept it quiet.
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The study you cited (thanks for the link) is first of all restrospective. Second it is tiny. Overall 97 patients of which 22 received hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics. Consider this compared to what the NIH is about to do in the US. A prospective study of 2000 patients comparing hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to placebo controls in matched moderately ill patients. That is likely to provide a credible result. Small retrospective studies can not. And with respect to Bangladesh, all I have seen are news reports. Are there papers? Even preprints? So we can see methods?
From your link:
"Results: Ninety-seven moderate COVID-19 patients were managed with hydroxychloroquine
(HQ) plus antibiotics (n = 22), lopinavir-ritonavir (Lop/R) plus antibiotics (n = 35), or
conservative treatment (n = 40). Time to viral clearance, as signified by negative conversion
on PCR, after initiation of treatment was significantly shorter with HQ plus antibiotics
compared to Lop/R plus antibiotics (hazard ratio [HR], 0.49; 95% confidence interval [95%
CI], 0.28 to 0.87) or conservative treatments (HR, 0.44; 95% CI, 0.25 to 0.78). Hospital stay
duration after treatment was also shortest for patients treated with HQ plus antibiotics
compared to other treatment groups. Subgroup analysis revealed that mean duration to viral
clearance was significantly reduced with adjunctive use of antibiotics compared to
monotherapy (HR 0.81, 95% CI, 0.70 to 0.93). While both HQ and Lop/R showed side effects
including nausea, vomiting, and elevation of liver transaminases, none were serious."
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Anyway, you can reduce the danger of produce that has been handled with the methods described in the video. Supposedly. You can also reduce the danger by going first thing in the morning, when the people at the grocery store have just restocked the shelves. If you are old or vulnerable, you go at 7 a.m. during reserved hours, when other customers are not allowed in. The grocery store people are still restocking. You can take bananas right out of the box, before they put them on the shelf.
I have seen delivery service people working in the grocery stores. They pick up the same produce I do. It has been handled just as much. Perhaps you mean delivery people from a dedicated warehouse? I am not familiar with delivery services.
The issue is not with the products- it's with shopping and handling stuff in the store before it is decontaminated. And anything other people touch, handle, or cough on has to be decontaminated. When you shop on line and take delivery at your door step or inside the trunk of your car at curbside, you are not exposed to anything other than paper or plastic bags which you can carry to a presumably contaminated spot in your home or garage. Non-perishables can sit for a day or two to reduce any possible virus on them. Perishables can be wiped down and then dropped into a "clean" site on their way to the frig. Someone posted an excellent video by a long time family practitioner physician that explained all that in meticulous and accurate detail in about ten minutes. On Youtube.
And be especially cautious of frozen stuff like TV dinners. Frozen virus is preserved, not destroyed. Possibly preserved for months. The advice there is to consider your freezer contaminated. Remove items from it with gloves and then open the package and dump the contents onto a clean container or dish without touching them. And what about delivered meals? I nuke them on the microwave until they sizzle, and the container gets hot to touch. Then I take out the contents to eat or store. Sometimes it overcooks the food. Too bad. It overcooks the virus too.
The other issue in the store, senior hours or not, is people who are infected coming too close or coughing near or even on you. People are not reliable. Why be near the general public when you don't need to? Recently, a friend of mine was following all the directions from a store including one way aisles and social distancing and masks, when an unmasked and coughing individual went the wrong way down the aisle right near her. She retreated hastily and pointed out the man to a store person who said they could so nothing about it. So yeah. Stay the 'f out of stores.
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Trump takes hydroxychloroquine daily. Uhho boy! Whoopee! He's a buckaroo (as they say in Russia)!
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Professor Tarek Md (not MD) has written a few reports.. I checked...
What does "Md" mean in this instance please?
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However, we can ask these people to be extra careful, and maybe we can reduce the likelihood of infection a little. For example, the grocery stores and Target here in Atlanta now have two mornings a week with an hour reserved for "vulnerable" people such as people over 65 and pregnant women. Maybe that helps. I hope so.
It is a bad idea for highly susceptible persons to go into store where every item has been handled and you have no way to decontaminate them. Much better and not all that much more costly is to use a delivery service (there are long lists of these) to pick up the items and deliver them to your door. Then, there are many published schemes on Youtube for artfully decontaminating the items. Choice of methods depends on how perishable the items are. This does require germicidal wipes or alcohol and paper towels but at least where I live, and on eBay and other merchants, these are becoming somewhat more available.
I do not allow my part time assistant to go into stores on my behalf any more and she doesn't do it for herself and her family either. She lives with two teenagers and an overweight and hypertensive husband (a typical US configuration). The compromise she usually chooses is to order on line and then have the store drop the goods into the trunk of her car. She wears mask and gloves to retrieve it and immediately decontaminates the items before storing them or lets them sit long enough to be reasonably sure they are safe. So far, enough decontamination supplies, some at inflated prices on eBay, have been available.
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Why would you believe poorly written lay reports of anecdotes from, of all places, Bangladesh? Really? These give you hope? A basis for actually treating people? WHY?!?!?!?!
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The Guardian ( the UK's most sensible newspaper) reported on Saturday the the UK government spent £20M ($25M) around 6 weeks ago buying up all the HCQ they could lay their hands on. Write to 'Boris Johnson 10 Downing St. London W1 and ask for your money back, because that's probably where your order went.
That is certainly of considerable interest - it could turn out to be wonderful prescience or a waste of £20M which these days ain't that much. But my order was trackable via India Post which seems to have it together pretty well. My first order was for chloroquine (not HCQ) and that got through fine. In about ten days and fully trackable through India Post and then through USPS. Later orders for hydroxychloroquine, however, tracked from India Post (where the tracking said they were dispatched via air) to the first step at USPS and then nothing. I have to look into that though I have not taken the time because I was able to get enough HCQ ( a reasonable but not excessive quantity) from a Canadian Pharmacy I linked before. They required a prescription but that was no problem. Anyway, I am pretty sure it was not Boris who got my HCQ. It could have been stolen from the air freight company or possible held in customs God-knows-where because shipping from India to the US seems to be heavily disrupted and often is no longer direct but goes through many other countries, some of them not first world.
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Dr. Richard,
Also, is it time dependent based on how long you have been infected?How would he know?
And about the Bangladesh reports: seriously? Good luck with fighting the virus with anecdotes and unsupported baseless claims.
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Dr Richard- Well deduced! When you do your table, could you give some details of dosage and drug function?
Really? IMO, we don't need more risky and dangerous (and mostly futile) presumptions and speculations. What would help is double blind controlled matched studies. Have any of those for your proposed drugs? Safety and efficacy studies?
Not to mention that "Dr" Richard's baseless recommendations, for the most part, can not be implemented by individuals anyway because they involve prescription medications. And these are medications that no self-respecting licensed medical professional would prescribe on present evidence. India used to provide meds without prescriptions but my last orders from India for HCQ were shipped and registered with India Post but never got to USPS where they were supposed to end up for delivery. That's about $500 I will never see again, I suspect.
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Yet a lockdown will?
You're suggesting a selective lockdown to protect elderly, all those with diabetes, hypertension, COPD, chronic liver or kidney disease, autoimmune diseases, etc. etc. etc,? That's nuts. Most of people like this live with families. They have neighbors. They need groceries, medical care, funds, and so on. Sure, wealthy elderly can be segregate from their families but the susceptible persons with usual or less than usual incomes can not. They couldn't live. There is no way to separate them and keep them safe. As said before: social distancing, wearing masks, keeping hands as clean as possible and widespread testing for both antibody and antigen. If you don't do those, and you turn the society loose, like we seem to be doing in the US, there is essentially no limit to the misery and death. And eventually, that will screw the economy even worse than lockdowns. But hey, no need to speculate -- the experiment is being done. Wait and see how it works out. So far, it's worked out to 90,000+ deaths in the US, growing at least linearly (maybe a bit faster than that) at what now? 2000 deaths per day? More? Yeah. We're doing just great.
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Today she did a segment on HCQ, and what she calls "politics, money and medicine and how they intersect with the coronavirus". 3 prominent US doctors are interviewed and give their opinions on the drugs efficacy (so far), and their frustration with the media's role. Doctors publicly critical of HCQ refused Attkisson's interview offer.
All such interviews done currently are complete nonsense. The right answer is that nobody knows. But everyone will, somewhere between fall and winter. The answer won't come from talking heads on TV. It will come from studies like this:
https://scitechdaily.com/nih-b…omycin-to-treat-covid-19/
Similar studies, done right, may also come from recent experience in New York State which used a lot of HCQ with and without AZI in controlled experiments. That and others may be out even sooner. Until then, conversations about it are opinions. And you know what is said about opinions. They are like ayholes. Everybody has one and they often stink.
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Recent ivermectin news -- Claims ivermectin + doxycycline is virtually a cure
As is often the case, small, apparently anecdotal study without control, matching, blinding, etc. It isn't clear from the lay articles what sort of patients they used but in all likelihood they would have gotten better anyway. From 80 to 95+ % of unselected patients will. You may want to look for a real study of Ivermectin with anything else or by itself. I have not found a credible one. The lab results are encouraging but the clinical evidence seems lacking.
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So if Covid19 has less than a 1% fatality rate for 99% of infections for young and healthy, then it is a logical step to say protecting the old and infirm is a consideration. Total infection rate is not the tell all.
ETA: And similarly from THHuxleynew
QuotePolicymakers should allocate resources towards the protection of the elderly and those suffering from underlying conditions such as obesity.
Unfortunately, there is currently absolutely no way at all to "protect the old and infirm." Do you know of one? And "infirm" is a bizarre term. In addition to people with pre-existing conditions related to age, you have to protect all young diabetics, those who have had chemotherapy for cancer, those with immune system disorders, those with inborn errors of metabolism, and on and on and on. You are grossly and incompetently oversimplifying an immensely complex problem. The only long term solutions are vaccines, or effective treatments and/or prophylaxis. And obesity? In the US? *Seriously?"
The prevalence of obesity was 42.4% in 2017~2018 https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
There isn't any way to protect people given how people live in the real world. The best you can do is minimize exposure in public places and in the US, about half the population doesn't understand or relate to the concept. Many of those people actively oppose social isolation, masks and anything else that mitigates COVID-19. They are standing up for their freedoms. I guess one of those freedoms is the right to negligently and ignorantly cause the deaths of multiple others. That's like allowing drunken driving again because under some weird concept we just have a basic right to drink and drive.
We may have a truly horrible next six months or a year. The US is up to about 90,000 deaths and the daily rate is constant or climbing. How many lives are we willing to sacrifice?
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I'm sticking with this until you DO understand the data, and also pay attention to what others say - since it is annoying have so many OT posts.
Well, that's one definition of futility!
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More lies from U-NO-WHO:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020…aim-on-wuhan-lab-funding/
QuoteTrump, May 14: Yeah. As I understand it, before I got here, $7.5 million in 2014. And look, they said they were studying different things and you know, things like that happen. But, you know, money was given by the Obama administration early on. … I ended it. … I took a lot of heat too. They said, “Oh, we’re studying all sorts of stuff.” You saw what happened. I ended it.
Not one word is true.
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Maybe its time for absinthe to make comeback as Covid Absinthe
Not a bad idea for palliation and anxiety relief. But me, I prefer rum. Pusser's rum actually. From my pirate ancestors.
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Second, as I have already said there is a mythology that vaccines have eradicated these diseases. These diseases were on the steep decline due to public health measures like sanitation and nutrition (with the first most important).
Old, mistaken BS antivaxxer line. Sanitation and nutrition do essentially nothing for smallpox, measles, diphtheria and many other vaccine-controlled or eradicated diseases. Sanitation does help polio but without the Salk and Sabin Nobel-winning vaccines, polio would still be with us and is still present as soon as vaccination efforts lag. In other words: more bullshit. In the future, it isn't worth responding. The source seems limitless and I have little interest in stopping people from looking foolish. Maybe someone else can.
I've already heard it all from the morons I used to hang with for giggles on a forum catering to those unusually vicious con artists who rip off grieving people by pretending to talk to the dead (while doing really bad cold readings that would embarrass any
good mentalist).
QuoteIt's the mythology they teach physicians
Right. They teach mythology in medical school. So next time you need brain or heart surgery, call a mystic.
