JohnO Member
  • Member since Dec 4th 2018
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Posts by JohnO

    From axil post #72

    SAFIRE shows the basic LENR causation mechanism revealed in its most basic form. Within the outermost double layer of the plasma double layer shell structure, fusion of hydrogen is occurring.

    From axil post #81

    I think that phase 1 of SAFIRE is doable for an amateur. A glass enclosure that holds hydrogen as seen below might be within the capabilities of the the amateur scientist.

    I have been intrigued by the SAFIRE Phase I experiment for a long time. I follow E-Cat World daily and posed some of my questions/ideas about it but didn’t get very far. A few days ago I happened onto this thread and found the answers to most of my questions and much more.


    My primary interest is in the potential development of small, safe, cheap, stand alone sources of energy. Energy boxes that can be utilized anywhere by anyone. I am hopeful that hydrogen fusion within the double layers of the SAFIRE plasma may be the key.

    The core SAFIRE Phase I apparatus is not much more complicated than the one I used in my 1963 high school physics lab. I do not remember what I was trying to do but I recall it generated very pretty plasma glows.

    I’m assuming that this group might see merit in and encourage some open, independent SAFIRE Phase I ‘like’ experimentation. I’m with Axil and believe that SAFIRE Phase I experiments are doable by an amateur. That said, it is very unlikely that any amateur is going to come up with the idea of doing such a thing on their own. Perhaps this group could help in that endeavor by brainstorming to come up with an experiment design…


    I have also posted this at

    Like many of you, I was terribly disappointed by the demo. It was an amateurish bad joke. I feel it may have hurt, not helped Rossi’s cause.

    A good thing I can say about it is that it seems we are gleaning a little good info from it. Most importantly the plasma similarities with SAFIRE and SunCell that Axil has
    pointed out.

    As an experimental approach, I suggest using standard, off-the-shelf laboratory equipment and glassware (even a standard bell jar) to
    contain/control a mounted anode and cathode. Pump down and then flush/fill the chamber with argon to slightly positive pressure. Experiment with power supply
    and control to establish a steady state plasma that looks/behaves similar to what we have seen in the SK. Up to this point no LENR, SR or excessive heat is
    expected. Add SR shielding and detection and add eye protection (welder’s glass). Start introducing small/trace amounts of hydrogen (I suggest in the
    form of water as dusty plasma experimenters have done in the past). Look for changes, adjust power/control, search for natural self-oscillation operating points
    and encourage, add more H, etc… If/when LENR occurs, it will be obvious with increased light/heat levels. Until we can get it to that point, there is no need
    to worry about thermalization or heat extraction.

    Why link together lots of E-cats QX or SK's together to produce a MW reactor when you could simply have one scaled up more efficient SAFIRE-type reactor do a much better job?

    IMHO - Small is easier to do. Easier to contain and sink the heat/energy out of it and deliver somewhere else. Less (or lower) technological hurdles to jump over to develop something that works. Scaling up current heat generation reactors is probably not a high priority. Electricity and then jet engines first... The later may require scaling up.

    In the Lewan/Rossi QX demonstration: https://animpossibleinvention.…cat-qx-demo-in-stockholm/

    Near the beginning of the video, Mats indicates that the reactor power supply is ‘supposedly’ a pulsed DC supply [Video 0:12:10]. In the write up he states “The voltage across the 1-ohm resistor was about 0.3V (pulsed DC voltage at about 100kHz frequency), thus the current 0.3A.” This implies a power supply wave form similar to the following image.

    If the reactor impedance is primarily resistive as indicated by Rossi, we would expect the wave form of the current (shown on the oscilloscope) to have close to the same shape as the power supply output. But that is not what we see on the oscilloscope across the 1 ohm resistor.

    Again, assuming the reactor impedance is primarily resistive, the current wave form on the oscilloscope would imply a power supply wave form that is more along the following lines.

    I’m intrigued by that AM modulated sine wave on the oscilloscope. If it’s not from oscillations driven by reactor behavior, it must come from the power supply and it’s not likely that it is an accident.

    Plasma Flash, Glow, Out images (easier to see in actual video)...

    I am in way over my head and It is just a thought... Though I 'think' Langmuir oscillations are likely to be much higher frequency...

    I also have the thought that it might be an intentional signal generated in the power supply for some constructive purpose in the reactor.


    Your posit that the 100khz AM sine wave) pump signal that appears on the scope is caused by the plasma is undercut by the abrupt termination of the signal at the 4 second point in the controller activation cycle. If the AM signal was produced by the plasma, it would terminate is a more gradual way or not at all.

    I believe the plasma also terminates at the 4 second point and any signal that it ‘might’ be generating would terminate at the same time.

    Here’s what I think we are seeing evidence of in the QX video:

    1) At start of cycle, there is a high voltage pulse that ionizes the gas in the reactor and starts an arc. This can be seen in the video as a momentary bright flash in the reactor.

    2) Subsequently the voltage/current to the reactor is reduced to a much lower value to sustain the plasma which can still be seen glowing in the reactor but at a much lower level.

    3) At the 4 second point, the excitation voltage/current is turned off by the controller, the plasma dissipates and its glow can no longer be seen in the video.

    4) After an OFF period, the controller initiates another starting pulse and the above sequence repeats.

    Note: The low level glow is very hard to see but it can be discerned by watching closely for a few cycles starting at 1:27:28 into the video. During step 2 in the cycle above, a slight glow/reflection can be seen at the base of the nut/shaft on the end of the reactor. What is most noticeable is the change in the glow from slight to non-existent at the 4 second point.

    Another interesting anomaly is that the ignition pulse strikes twice in a cycle starting at about 1:28:12.

    I will continue to work toward a replication power supply based upon argon laser supply designs. I will endeavor to make it easy to add features like a wave form generator and amplifier to super impose other properties (such as the 100khz AM sine wave) onto the DC pulse/bias.

    I found a text at Jet Propulsion Labs titled “Fundamentals of Electric Propulsion: Ion and Hall Thrusters” in which Chapter 3 is on the topic of “Basic Plasma Physics.”…s1/Goebel__cmprsd_opt.pdf

    As to a power supply design for the replication… Argon ion lasers are a plasma tube though they seem to require much higher excitation currents than the QX/SK and they have heated filaments. There are many different types available including some DIY designs. They look like a good place for us to start.…nLaserSysteems/mod4-3.htm


    I'll start playing around with a lower current version based on based on one of the laser designs and will include an isolation transformer (direct connected systems to AC line are too dangerous).

    One thing the oscilloscope shows quite clearly in the Mats / Rossi demo is that the current through the reactor is always in one direction. Yes it oscillates, but it has a DC bias => 2 X (peak-to-peak oscillation). SAFIRE is also DC. I do not know about others. The HID supplies seem to switch polarities driving the lamps.

    So do you think he is pulsing the reactor and each pulse is creating sinusoidal waves?

    With the disqualifier that I am not even up to novice rank when it comes plasmas, I am entertaining that idea. I have searched for clues on how Langmuir oscillations might affect the overall plasma current but have not found any information yet. From my EE perspective, it seems logical that it might.

    I’ll float another idea too. I think it is possible that the power supply could be as simple as a DC supply that is switched on/off and feeds a simple RC network that delivers the high voltage/current initiation pulse from a capacitor and quickly decays to supply the desired sustaining voltage/current. (With the Langmuir waves producing the oscillation of that current.)

    I have watched the Stockholm QX demo video and have some observations pertaining to a power supply spec. During the reactor test, the oscilloscope was connected across a 1ohm resistor in series with the power supply and the reactor so its waveform represents the circuit’s current and only gives indirect hints as about what the power supply voltage/waveform might be… While the circuit was being setup for the short circuit test, Rossi can be seen lifting the box up from the power supply and seemingly flipping several switches. Obviously, Rossi doesn’t want us to figure his system out. The waveforms seen during the subsequent short circuit and 800ohm load tests did not have the same AM sinusoidal characteristic as the reactor test and the on/off periods were closer to 2/11 seconds vs. 3/4 seconds.

    I’ve just started learning about plasmas but I’d like to float the thought that the 100khz sinusoidal current through the reactor might be due to Langmuir wave oscillations in the plasma.

    It’s an Amplitude Modulated (AM) sinusoidal voltage with a positive bias/offset by the Amplitude (1/2 peak-to-peak). It can be done with relatively simple oscillators and amplifier. Does anyone have any insight as to what the voltage/current levels and frequency might be?


    On Saturday you wrote about your concept of the power supply and in the last part of item 2 stated:

    and then provide much lower voltage/current pulses at a range of hz up to or beyond 100khz.

    Assumedly this is to maintain the plasma after the environment is ionized. Is there a reason that this "much lower voltage/current" is "pulses" rather than steady DC as in SAFIRE?

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