Bob#2 Member
  • Member since May 27th 2019
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Posts by Bob#2

    Bad planning?

    Bad intentions? (Knowing about issues but proceeding anyway to get the money?)

    Plain stupidity?

    Missouri's largest windfarm shuts down at night...due to two bat fatalities!

    Missouri's largest wind farm is shut off at night to protect bats – is this overkill?
    A wind farm has been switching off at night since April to avoid killing endangered bats. Is this throwing out the baby with the bathwater?

    it gets Safety Certification


    As stated often here before. Certification is a daily occurrence and there is no mystery about it. There is NO "safety" certification. There are certifications to industry or government standards for specific functions., which can include "safety". These standards are normally drawn up by industry organizations and then CERTIFIED by an agency such as UL. These standards take a long time to develop and require review and approval from bodies such as SAE (automotive) or NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) to name just two.

    So what is Rossi getting certified too? A novel nuclear device? Hardly... there are no standards for such. An LED light? Should be no problem and certainly not a secret. What would the "IF' be concerned here? Except that if it is to a standard LED certification, then the SKLED is NOT a novel LENR or "other" powered device as the standard would not apply to it!

    So once again, I must ask you.. what standard is Rossi getting his device certified too? "Safety" is meaningless in certification terms. Surely you can ask him this! Providing the certification standard will not disclose any IP and these standards are MEANT to be published, so no agency is going to "complain".

    On the other hand, if you are afraid to ask him, that shows you acknowledge that he is deceptive in this. If he does not answer the question, it shows he is deceptive. If he is deceptive in something as open and honest as a certification, it is a big flag that he is a liar and cheat.

    Your logic is completely in error here. There is NOTHING hinging on a "Safety" certificate. There never has been. Just like his previous "certificates", they turned out to be 1) deceptive and 2) certainly did not prove Rossi had anything.

    Please provide any logic as to why the above reasoning is not sound and refutes the certificate argument. If you cannot, then I suggest you should really evaluate your continued support for such a scam...... not that I care anything about Rossi anymore... it is just that he scammed $10,000,000 that could have went to legitimate LENR research, CONTINUES to give LENR a very bad name and I dislike seeing such obvious and blatant scam artists openly and publicly prance around while some people openly praise him and certain people refuse to call him out.....especially those who have personally seen his crap presentations..... X/

    Oh well... P.T. Barnum was certainly correct about some people.

    I am not sure I understand your response. Both Israel actual data and World o Meter indicate completely otherwise... current vaccine efficacy is greatly reduced by Delta. That is the problem with "studies". They can show whatever the investigators want... whether it be vaccine efficacy or ivermectin effectiveness....

    Yet the real world shows quite differently... the current vaccines / vaccine implementation are not winning the battle.

    The true promise from the vaccines is they would allow us to get on with our lives with minimal precautions and without the health service collapsing. That is what they do at the moment in the UK, and the difference between now and last year.

    To the world at large, the vaccines have not made much of a difference in how we live. It is simply government mandate. If governments followed the same logic, we would be in lock down again. Significant increase in cases / deaths warranted lock downs last year but not this year????

    The reason lockdowns are not as wide spread now is not because the vaccines have quelled the pandemic, it is because governments know that they 1) would cause a revolt or 2) simply do not work long term. Some lockdowns are still in place but not publicized much.

    For instance, "Follow the science" Biden still has a travel ban between Canada and the US while he lets tens of thousands of untested illegal immigrants in at the southern border. The vaccine has made no difference there.

    No, I do not see the vaccines allowing us to "get on with our lives" at all. That is ALL government politics and only government politics in play there. We will see.

    The new mRNA vaccines can be changed rapidly. Within weeks, if necessary, and they will not need FDA approval.

    As often stated here, the mRNA vaccines are supposedly "fast" (a relative term I understand) to re-engineer for mutated variants.

    However, I hear a lot about boosters and Israel has even started. Yet they are using the same, unmodified vaccine.

    The Delta variant has been around now for months... why has not the vaccines been modified... or are they / have they and I missed it somewhere? I have not even seen any articles stating they were working on a revised version. So what is the deal here?

    Is it that "not vaccinating during a pandemic" is even less problematic than "changing the vaccine during a pandemic"? I am not stating this, simply asking the question. If a mRNA strength was it's fast and easy modification, why has this not been done for Delta? Or was this trait simply exaggerated?

    It is clear this pandemic is not being won and cases are increasing dramatically again, in spite of the the heralded vaccine roll out. However, the facts are, the world wide cases are not much different than last year when no vaccines were available. They are not making the world impact some here trumpet. I am not saying this, World O Meter is. Yes, there will be many excuses given, but the fact is shown below. Last year versus this year is not much different. Vaccines or no, lock downs or no, the cases are very similar. 5.52 BILLION doses have been given world wide and yet the stats show little effect. 2.9 BILLION people have been fully vaccinated and yet World o Meter shows little effect. Yes, I understand what some will say...and Israel data would disagree with them. India data will disagree with them. UK and US data will disagree with them.

    We can spin it however we like... however, world wide, the pandemic is not being impacted much. More cases and more deaths now. Unless a different approach is taken, I do not see it changing much. Booster shots of the same vaccine is certainly not the answer if 5.52 billion doses (40% of the world population is fully vaccinated) did not make much of an impact.

    how many covid vaccines have been given world wide - Google Suche

    World wide

    World wide


    Hospitals in Oklahoma have been so backed up with ivermectin overdoses that gunshot victims are unable to receive treatment quickly.

    Just a note on this as some here are quick to point out "fake news" by "anti- vaxers". It seems the vaccine warriors are just as guilty.

    This report is almost certainly false. When I first read about it, I was curious as to if it were true. If so, it would certainly be big news and more importantly important information as Ivermectin is a proven safe drug. For ER's to be filled with Ivermectin overdoses would be quite incredibile.

    So I did some research and this story is completely unsubstantiated.

    1) I could find no supportive articles... only a rehash of the same one. A certain Dr. Jason McElyea, was the cited source. No confirming reports I could find.

    2) The report and republished reprints had NO data. Simply claims...without any supportive evidence... such as to which hospital the ER was "filled" with. No numbers, no dates, no facts... just "ER filled".

    3)The "report" being republished by main stream is now stating "Oklahoma ER's", note the plural, giving the impression that all or at least several ER's are full! The reports now even state that "gunshot victims", note again plural...are being kept from the ER. Again, this would be quite the news if true.... Oklahoma has a quite low gun violence rate... now if this were left wing Chicago...... This propaganda method is the often used technique to make an issue seem larger,,, even when the story is not true to begin with.

    4) I tried to find the hospital name so I could give them a call... I could not find any reference in any story,

    5) The side effects of Ivermectin would never pre-empt a gun shot wound. The published effects are diarrhea, dizziness and nausea. Hardly life threatening.

    In spite of this story being false, mainstream has been quick to jump on board and widely report it... all without facts.

    hmmmm..... :/ as stated before... anything that may compete with vaccines MUST be buried quickly and completely.

    Edited update....

    Below is a retraction from "The Rolling Stone" who had earlier published the same repeated story.... at least they had the integrity of printing a retraction.... note the hospital stated there had been ZERO ivermectin overdoses at their facility, much less ER's full. Talk about outright disinformation campaign by mass media!

    UPDATE: Northeastern Hospital System Sequoyah issued a statement: Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support.”

    Gunshot Victims Wait as Horse Dewormer Overdoses Overwhelm Hospitals - Rolling Stone

    (but of low prevision, unlike the high precision remdesivir evidence of the same)

    Come now...this is exactly why many here take exception to such posts.

    Remdesivir is even dismissed by the WHO. If it had "high precision" evidence, surely they would endorse it. Yet they officially removed it from the approved list.

    And as W would say (probably)... the one unsubstaniated case you site above overrides the millions of successful cases in India? Really? You deny India success yet believe one completely factless (no medical facts provided) case of a self nedicated person?

    If so I can then ascribe that I personally took Ivernectin after a positive test. Within 24 hours all symptoms where gone. Therefore Ivermectin works.

    It is true in my case. I did take it. But I do not say it is proof. Your fact void report of a death is no more meaningful than my above "assertion".

    This is truly a tribal argument for most here and more so for the "vaccine warriors". Most pro-ivermectin posters here have been vaccinated. They simply state the vaccines are failing and other tactics should be employed in conjunction. (Perhaps not vaccinating the young with an untested mRNA for long term effects)

    Vaccine warriors however are absolutely enamored. There is no other solution other than vaccines and anything "better" than vaccines must be dismissed. That is why renedisivir us not dismissed. Not because it works, but because it's horrible price and ineffectiveness poses no threat to vaccines.

    Ivernectin and other low cost alternatives pose a threat and that cannot be tolerated...... as has been stated here..... ivermectin may convince many not to get the shot. That is why you dismiss it, not because of faulty studies.

    There is zero long term safety studies for the vaccine, yet you repeatedly state it is very likely long term safe. Yet you have no scientific basis for that claim. You strongly dismiss Ivermectin even though there is evidence it works. CERTAINLY more evidence than mRNA long term safety.

    This is evidence of strong bias clouding reason.

    Gov. DeSantis and other members of the GOP Death Cult have recently claimed the Delta COVID surge was caused by Biden. They say he is allowing hoards of sick illegal immigrants in from Mexico, putting them on buses, and sending them to Florida and other states. Most unvaccinated people are Republicans, and most of them believe this, as shown in this public opinion poll:

    More pure political bull shit from Rothwell. He is so politically motivated he cannot even see it, as most liberal elites seem to be. "Liberal elite syndrome" it is called.

    Biden IS letting THOUSANDS of infected migrants in and sending them across the country.. ...without quarantine requirements. Yet do you deny this?

    Do you think that is OK and not causing any issues? I doubt you will address this because you cannot and keep Biden in a good light.

    You completely dodge the real question by trying to throw BS and call names, which are mostly spinned lies anyway.

    How about Obama's big maskless birthday bash? (Posts and videos from party goers were demanded to be deleted so the "crime" would not be seen. Really?)

    How about Chicago's Lolapolooza's huge crowds ? Where the insane Democratic mayor attended. The mayor who recently had her own police force physically turn their backs on her as she tries to abolish the police.... as the liberal democrats are doing in all their cities...and record murder rates now in all of them..

    (PS.. record marijuanna sales was made at Lolalopooza, I am sure smoking all those joints in crowds was really controlling the spread! :rolleyes: )

    Wait.. those don't count cause those were Democratic Socialist events... the virus stays away from those Democrat socialist events...just like the migrants crossing the border are immune to spreading it.

    Yes, every time I see this "GOP death cult" crap, I will simply respond with "Liberal Democratic anarchists calling for police abolishment while the murder rate soars to record highs in Democratic lead cities) meme.

    i guess we can call Rothwell the "anti-police murder cultist" since he is connected to that party and he seems to throw everyone into prejudiced collections, we can do the same to him! :/

    So as you can see, we can throw political BS right back at you as well!

    Absolute political blindness indeed! You have lost all credibility. By the way... how is your "a leader that should be followed" thoughts turning out? :/

    Gov. Cuomo -- who I now designate a world-class expert on this subject

    Really!?? Ask all the New York nursing home families about this who lost thousands of loved ones... talk about who caused deaths! But Cuomo is a liberal and must not be criticized! But a GOP will be called a death cultist simply because they are a republican.

    Here is a SUPERB presentation by Gov. Cuomo of New York. This is one of the best analyses of the situation I have seen. It is one of the best examples of good leadership since FDR.

    Hmmm. good leadership indeed..... :/ Let's see... who is getting impeached lately??? Yes, good leadership indeed!

    Oh well... this just goes to show how a person's view is so clouded by political affiliation.... <X

    CDC says unvaccinated is twice as likely to get re-infected as vaccinated.

    Coronavirus Disease 2019
    CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

    THH will certainly like this article posted on the official CDC. Since he criticizes TSN for being biased and not providing links or qualified sources!

    So this report has several links proving the assertation.... wait... no links?

    This report has detailed content of an RCT.... wait.... no RCT? Certainly some here will then tag this as untrustworthy and one should not pay attention to it..... :/

    The report was on a large number of subject, thus proving it's accuracy.... wait...NO? A small, non-randomized nor control group study? While making the CERTAIN assertation that unvaccinated people are 2.31 times more likely? Yes, THH will surely trash this study as being completely unscientific without control, without double blind, without taking age groups into account.... etc. etc..

    Surely this report will irritate THH as it clearly shows bias and lacks any supporting evidence while maintaining a CERTAINTY of scientific fact!


    are there a different set of scales used for TSN versus the official CDC website? Good for the goose?

    :whistling: Sorry, I simply could not help. (May not sorry?) TSN is a news site (as in it's name) making public service announcements. It is not Nature or the CDC. I do not see some here bashing CNN for there biased, unsourced and non-qualified reporters....... nor the CDC for making unsupported claims either.

    TSN may not link to the exact studies, but they do give their sources and the sources are qualified... at least as much as others.

    If everyone would do what the Biden administration asks them to do, the pandemic would end in a month.

    Pure BS and rhetoric!

    How about Israel? Pandemic ending in a month there? (Only the highest per capita vaccinated)

    How about Japan? No spectators at the Olympics.... pandemic ending in a month there? (One of the most regimented societies.) So what is Biden asking that Japan is not?

    How about S. Korea? Your "they are doing it right" model. Yes, they do have much lower cases but the pandemic certainly is not over in a month there either! So what is Biden asking that S. Korea is not?

    Again, what is Biden asking that will end the pandemic? Do not wear masks (just 2 months ago)... oh wait... wear masks now!.... Exactly WHAT is he asking that was not done before? Other than vaccines being totally available now when none was available before. So please inform me what is Biden asking that will stop the pandemic in one month! Pure BS.

    If this was the prior administration, you would be posting daily about how every bit of this surge is 100% Trump's fault and the administration is intentionally killing people. Yet, a different administration with just as bad results is blameless. Typical Cuomo / CNN logic!

    So the above statement is pure rhetoric, baseless and political.

    Yes, the virus is mutating. The current vaccines are not going to stop it. (see Israel, see everywhere) The vaccines will keep mutating. BS about administration's ability to stop it is simply political rhetoric. NO country is stopping it Science will need to implement another strategy if this pandemic is ever going to be over.... possibly a combination of early treatment and vaccine.

    I look to Nov 25/21 to see what Rossi has to offer and if he has

    the important Safety Certification.


    And what "Safety Certification" would that be.

    Having done several UL certifications myself, I know that you can only get "certified" to standards that are published by industry or the government. For example, a safety standard for LED bulbs is :IEC 62471.

    So what standard is Rossi getting certified too? Surely he can state that as it would not reveal any secrets. A certification is MEANT to be public, that is why you get one, so that customers can see your product is certified.

    So is Rossi going to get certified for:

    A LED? No, it is not a LED device.

    Incandescent bulb? No

    Fluorescent bulb? No

    LCD ? No

    The SKLED supposedly is some novel type of product unknown to current physics!

    Sam12, what standard is Rossi getting certified too? Please ask him this question.

    And as in the past, why is this so important? Do you think Rossi will show the certification? He did the SGS cert and it revealed the lies he telling. It had nothing to do with a novel reactor and SGS even sent him a cease and desist order because he was lying about it.

    Why do you think he will be any different this time? Rossi lies and he lies about everything. Fake customers, fake invoices, fake engineers and fake certificates!

    You have set goal posts before and have now moved them 3 times? I really would like to know why! What evidence at all do you have for moving the "wait and see date" and supporting Rossi?

    You should really think about this!

    Anyway - we will have no problem social distancing from deer

    Being from a very rural area in the mid-west, I have different information.

    I am sure not so much in the UK, but in the US, over 6 million deer are harvested annually. Practically speaking, ALL are processed for food. Having been deer hunting almost my entire life, I fully know what is invovled...immediately after taking a deer, one "field dresses" it. Certainly not distancing!…utomobiles%20every%20year.

    So no, there could very well be a problem.... however, this is another "framework" the government should use to "nudge" evil guns from law abiding citizens! All for the greater good.... as many would applaud!..... :/

    The food lobby, and capitalism, where things that people like can be marketed without constraint, is the problem.

    A bit showing through here!

    Is it that people are too stupid to manage their own lives and the government should manage it for them?

    (without constraint... who constrains... only the government.. Who sets the constraints... those in power...who is in power... only the elite if they have their way)

    It seems the elite think they "know better" and should be able to dictate to the stupid people what is best for them....

    at least that is the way every dictatorship and oppressive regime starts..,,, indeed, capitalism is inherently evil. ?(

    It is disappointing that Rossi sceptics can’t see past the end of there Noses.

    And what, Sam12, may I ask, do you see past the end of your nose when looking at Rossi?

    As many times before, please provide ANY verifiable and remotely believable evidence that Rossi has ANY thing that works... After 12+ years..... any verifiable evidence. Even someone who has seen a Rossi demo and will come out and currently say "yes I think it works". Not some obscure quote from 10 years ago, but say in the last 2 years......anyone one!

    Perhaps you can ask Alan Smith.... he personally saw a QuarkX and the demo that was a masterpiece as described by many on ECW.... please ask him how believable Rossi is........ :/

    But he also wrote his thesis on Relativity at Bologna Uni and got a distinction for it. I think Rossi is smarter than your average bear,

    Well... short memories I guess. Please look back and you will find that Rossi's "Physic thesis" was on the philosophy of physics and had nothing to do with actual physics calculations or theory. His degree is in philosophy and that is what he wrote his thesis for.... philosophy not physics....

    yet another "thumbs up" for a clearly fraudulent person... I cannot understand why.

    PRINCIPLE is just IVM. And you are wrong to hope that trials should be on compound treatments. If IVM + Zn works, then IVM on its own, or Zn on its own, will work. Maybe less well, but that does not matter. AFAIK there is no good evidence that Zn works.

    " If IVM + Zn works, then IVM on its own, or Zn on its own, will work. "

    I must disagree with this statement quite strongly. This certainly is NOT following science.

    Of course chemistry is absolutely full of interactions.

    Testing if certain chemicals are essential to life such as sodium or chlorine? So if I do an RCT seeing if sodium is essential to life and test only sodium, it will result in a complete negative...that sodium will destroy life. If an RCT tests chlorine is necessary for life by itself, it will show it is deadly.

    Yet as we all know, sodium and chlorine ARE essential life, but only together as sodium chloride... common salt.

    While a simple example, it is quite true. Your statement is simply unfounded that RCT's testing only one variable are full-proof and "will work" is falsifiable and easily disproved.

    While it COULD be that a particular substance could work "some" on it's own and then work much better in conjunction with a complimentary agent, your statement that it "will work" and the RCT will tell us is simply opinion and not founded. I have done many, many design of experiments (DOE) in real life engineering... ignoring interactions is a fools errand.... perhaps not in academic math.... but absolutely in the real world!

    This is the main problem with RCT's. They can easily leave out absolutely critical components (either intentionally or accidently) that result in incorrect results... .and then people will say "RCT rules" this is proof....... except when an RCT shows something positive against the worldview and then "it is a poor design or poorly conducted trial".

    The often quoted saying.... "junk in".... "junk out".... or more scientifically stated .... "bad design in"..... "bad design out".... and the PRINCIPLE trial is NOT immune to this either!

    The Swiss CoV-19 data collection has a serious - easily understandable presentation :…logic/death?geoView=table

    Go down to 3/4 of the page where you find CoV-19 death/age class - class size 10 years about 0.8.. 1.2 mio. people in each class. So any pop up value of 0.08..0.12 represents a single death/100'000/week of age class.

    This is real state official base data that cannot be fudged...Albeit THH would like to do so ... You immediately see that the death risk from vaccine for people age < 50 is at least 10x higher than from CoV-19. (25..40/mio) Even a child can understand this data.

    I do not read the language but Google translate seems to do the job.

    I see the death/age class referenced above, but am not sure where the "age < 50 at least 10x higher than from Cov-19" is listed or compared. (Sometimes I do not see as a child!) Is the 25.4/million from another source?


    But 97% of those 600 are still with mild symptoms so in a week or it will be known If you develop serious COVID or not. 50 out of the 600

    Just trying to get a clear picture...

    Is it not true that 97% of non-vaccinnated people also have mild symptoms? I guess I am missing the point here?

    Is the main point that the vaccine is not stopping infections but assists in mild cases? I may be missing the point....

    Bob - just a point here.

    First, I want to express appreciation for discussion free of insult and personal innuendo. It certainly can help in bringing sides to a view each others perspective......

    Although, I am not sure that my previous post has been really interpreted correctly. The post was the impact and severity that tribalism has and that education often plays a very minor role in one's world view. I gave a few clear examples, one being your and Wyttenbach's high education compared to widely differing views of Covid vaccines. (Not vaccines in general, but specifically Covid, not notably mRNA type)

    Jed responded with "nonsense", the vaccines are the most tested ever in history, which is factually incorrect. They have no long term tests, nor have passed even the standard short term protocols. He can argue all he wants, but factually, the vaccines are being used under emergency use clauses because they have not yet passed standard protocols. I am not saying the vaccines are bad, just stating a fact, and he reacts extremely negative about it... proving my point.

    You either misunderstand my "tribal" post or are disagreeing. I am not sure which. My point is that "W" apparently has very high math skills and education. Skills which on the surface should allow him to "follow the science" and come to a factual conclusion. You likewise, have high math skills have the same data sets available and yet come to a completely different conclusion, although you would also claim to be "following the science".

    My point is that most people "join a tribe" very early in any debate and rarely change matter what their education or what 'the data" says.

    I look at it this way... I could be wrong.... you read a public service announcement from TSN and expect it to be a full RCT. Do you expect CNN to be the same? Also, the people that report on TSN for example, often have high degrees and field experience in medicine. However, because you do not agree with their conclusions, you can pick apart the submitted data to support your view. I fully expect that the Pfizer RCT data supporting their vaccines can be picked apart as well. "W" states it is bogus, and he has a high math aptitude!!!

    Do you see what I am saying.... "follow the science" is in the eye of the beholder and often that eye is cast by the "Tribe" a person joins early. I know Chicago Cubs fans that possibly would get physically violent with a White Sox fan... or vice versa..... over a simple sport! Unfortunately, it is the same with this Covid arena.

    Rothwell blames the Republicans and Fox news for Biden's incompetence. (See previous post) He has to blame someone, he cannot blame his own tribe! Covid cases are on the rise.. it cannot be the vaccines fault... it has to be "stupid conservatives".... (it certainly cannot be that the virus has mutated and the vaccines are losing strength.... that is a vaccine negative!

    So that is my point and I am unsure there is a solution.

    I would like to point out .... I do not know of any "anti-vaxxers" on this site. Perhaps one? But I believe just about everyone on this site HAS taken the vaccine, certainly the majority.... so much for "stupid conservatives"....... They are just concerned about long term safety of mRNA vaccines. Tribalism does not seem to allow that open and impersonal discussion. (From BOTH sides I might add!)

    (P.S. I will acknowledge that I have not taken any Covid vaccines yet. To restate, I have contracted the virus and I have seen no studies that have convinced me natural protection is inferior to the vaccines. As with everything, there are reports with opposing conclusions. Actually I am leaning towards that natural is better than the artificial. I also take D, Zn and Quercetin, all having some level of studies showing efficacy, with NO side affects and other positives to take it.

    I also had Ivermectin, which I took during my Covid case, which was extremely mild. My wife took it a second time a few weeks ago having some symptoms, which truthfully is almost impossible to detect from regular cold or flu without testing. Both times, we saw physically noticeable improvement, the next day! (Proof? No...but certainly not a negative)

    However I have not been able to get Ivermectin locally so I reordered from Amazon.... it was supposed to be here today and it apparently has never shipped... I am concerned that there has been some type of stoppage on shipping Ivermectin similar to what happened with HCQ. We will see.

    I plan to wait at least six months before making a final decision on a vaccine shot. )

    More nonsense. Every reported side effect of the vaccine has been investigated in more detail, with better diagnostics and more data than any vaccine in history. In fact, with more data and in more detail than all previous vaccines combined, in all of medical history. There have never been such careful investigations of possible negative consequences. They would not have been possible in any earlier era because we did not have big data, AI, modern communications and the internet.

    Prime example... :/

    What to do???

    Tribal warfare rages on....

    Vaccine warriors.... anything that reduces vaccine importance by any amount must be censored as "against science" and "fake news". No questioning nor investigating possible negative issues of the vaccine is allowed. Certainly one must never give possible credence to a report that casts a dim light on vaccines, no matter the source or content.

    Vaccine warriors.... anyone who supports vaccines are "an expert" and can be quoted and believed. Anyone who questions vaccine safety or efficacy, no matter what qualifications they have, is a quack and anti-vaxxer. They are to be censored and reviled.... preferably personally attacked. Papers that they may write should automatically be censored. No credence can be given to them in any way. Evidence.... ALL reports listed here that question vaccines or propose postive alternatives to vaccines have been attacked......regardless...

    If a fish oil report should be questioned due to "who funded the study", vaccine trials done by the big pharma companies who have billions of dollars at stake and same reports provide the vast majority of positive evidence for vaccines, should be believed without any skeptisism.


    Anti-Vaxxers - indeed just as bad.. anything to do with vaccines is automatically bad....


    I do not think there are any anti-vaxxers on this forum. Just people who have concerns with a novel type of vaccine, never before approved for human use (still not approved under normal standards) with a very concerning safety record for early testing (mRNA development) and no current long term safety testing. Remember, it took 5 years for thalomide to be banned. You can still purchase tobbacco even though the Surgeon General has stated it is extremely bad for several years.... after many years of not saying anything when tobacco industry "safety trials" said it was ok. Surely this would not happen today!?!?!? :/

    Education?.... hmmm.. everyone on this site has some education... several advanced. Wyttenbach and THH both have advanced math.... yet are polar opposites.

    Rothwell and THH both are educated and are pretty much in agreement with vaccines.... yet are bitterly opposed concerning LENR testing and results. While Rothwell and Wyttenbach both agree that LENR is a demonstrable event. Wyttenbach and Rothwell are bitterly opposed concerning Covid vaccinations. (Wyttenback is NOT an anti-vaxxer by the way and has said so many times)

    Alan, Dennis Letts and I all have degrees. Yet Dennis and I disagree significantly with Alan concerning something as smple as IH! Where Dennis has personal experience with them and should have much more "weight" to his opinion. However, I doubt Alan has changed his view in the least about IH.

    So education, while very important, does not solve tribal thnking.

    "Following the science" meme is "BS" as everyone above states they ARE following the science.

    Science is simply an interpetation of data, formed hypothoses and often faith. (Yes indeed). Some areas more concrete than others. ..

    So it boils down to tribal association, whether you are of a political party, social system, a religion or yes, even a sports team fan, people are tribal and thier views and thinking are far, far more shaped by this than they would like to admit..... including my own! :whistling:

    So the tribal warfare goes on.....I am unsure of anyway to fix it. ?(