"White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki claimed Thursday that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who has tested positive for the coronavirus, kissing President Biden on the cheek and holding his hand did not meet the White House’s definition of "close contact."
My God! What type of idiots are in this administration!
and....
some here state this administration "follows the science"...... 
what political bull shxx.
Well,
#1, I named no names... so if the shoe fits????
#2, replace Pharma with government...same result, same end.
#3, Highly motivated?? Some countries may be, such as India. My nephew went through threats of having his doctors privilege's revoked at his hospital because he was treating Covid.... with great success and NO mortality and yes I can back that up as well. Why is Remedisvir still being used and promoted by the CDC when the WHO and majority of studies show it is useless? THAT truly shows the motivation.
If governments were truly motivated for inexpensive and safe treatment, they would have been at least encouraging Vit. D, C, Zinc and Quercetin along with almost useless masks, distancing and lockdowns. Yet they did not. It is absolutely known and proven that these help the immune system, regardless of Covid or not. Where do you think their motivation was with these?
#4, and most important...... no response on the actual posted studies... peer reviewed and pretty impressive. Yet to the dust bin they are relegated because they are not from Pharma,,I mean government... 
Very interesting review on two Ivermectin studies.
I am sure that one poster here will say it is pure bull shit as no worms were involved. 
The other will say it is not a double blind RCT by a major pharma company (which none ever will be because pharma is not going to pay for it) and therefore automatically dumped into the "anti-vax / outlier" bin without actual review. 
The evidence keeps building in favor of Ivermectin use. However, at least two people are so far down the rabbit hole, they will never reconsider......
And also pointed out why there are good reasons for it not to be causal the way you'd like (and I'd like - we would all like that).
No, you have pointed out suppositions that might effect the outcome of ANY study. That does not make this or others studies invalid. Where I am at extreme odds with you (and I have supported you many times, especially in LENR statements) is that you throw out the entire evidence base because of one or two studies you personally do not agree with. I look at the entire body of evidence and not cherry pick one at a time.
For instance, I do not believe you have reviewed all 71 studies concerning ivermectin. You have cherry picked the one or two that has been shaded by main stream, picked it apart and then attributed these things to ALL other studies. This is disingenuous. There are many intelligent researchers involved in vit. D and ivermectin studies, but THH is stating they are ALL ignorant and fooling themselves. That they cannot distinguish "good reasons for it not to be causal the way you'd like". Yet it is so clear to THH but not the multitude of other researchers..... really?
Another real sticking point is that your agenda is so clear... you continually push against D, Ivermectin etc. yet never point out the glaring errors of main stream. You are fine with Remedisvir RCTS even though they are trash, even the WHO says so. This drug is the treatment of choice and yet it is far less tested and likely than ivermectin, yet you do not rail against it. You do not warn against it... your silence is interestingly telling...
This shows your intentions are NOT to bring the BEST solutions to light, it is only to follow your world view. People rarely, if ever, will admit their world view is in error unless they have an escape...
Should any of the credible (not the weird retracted Spanish one I liked for a while) Vit D against COVID RCTs show positive results
Quit hiding behind the RCTs meme. You know as well as I, that there will NEVER be an RCT on Vit D.... RCTs are extremely expensive and no one is going to pay for it because there is no money in it. And you KNOW this. Besides, RCTs are not perfect and are ripe for faulty design, whether by accident or on purpose. Look at the ivermectin RCTs you "say" are valid... they are designed to fail by every measure from purported evidence. Yes they are. And your false statement about ivermectin by itself would show a strong correlation IF it worked is simply crap. There are many drugs that require combinations to work, you just refuse to acknowledge that.
Besides, I have no doubt that if an RCT on vit. D was done, you would negate it. First because it will never be done by big pharma, they have no reason to conduct one.... so any positive studies are deficient by default. Just as you have claimed all 70+ ivermectin studies are deficient.
Again, if you applied exactly the same magnifying glass to the vaccine trials as you do ivermectin, they would come up just as short....
It does not prove Vit D has no effect on COVID, but we have seen this type of correlation many times before
Says who???? you??? Why, in the US is every ounce of milk fortified with vitamin D? Does the "Vit. D mafia" have control of the milk production? No, there ARE proven benefits of Vitamin D and have been done over and over again... your world view simply does not allow for it.
Just because THH says there has not been shown any effect, does not make it true. I have posted a study from Israel that says you are wrong. However, your world view is that you are more educated, have more insight, have more knowledge and simply are smarter than the scores of PHDs that have conducted trials on D, ivermectin and other substances. FM has posted multiple studies on vit. D, but again, they are all negated by THHs "I know better"! There are studies, you simply deny it.
You my friend are falling in the Jed trap... "the experts say"...! The caveat being that the only "Experts" are those that already agree with your world view... if they do not agree, they are ignorant or crackpots. I state this with clarity from personal experience...whether it be physics concerning CF or medicine or other fields of study, the vast majority practioners follow main stream thought, usually taught them at the university level. Just as the local hospital and doctor stated about Covid treatment... the only current treatment is "let them turn blue and then bring them to the ER" (My wording, but true in essence)
Yet there are many, many qualified and experienced physicians who think other wise and I am very glad they do, as my mother likely has benefited from it.
You continued "yes, but the positive results could be contributed to .... youth, demographic, quality of air, or as Jed has stooped to saying... "worms is causing the benefit"" can simply be painted on any study and is an excuse.... apply the same thing to the vaccine studies and people will hold you in higher respect... but we do not see that. FM posts many posts putting the vaccines in positive light in addition to other substances of value... he is looking at all sides... you are not it seems.
But you have made your world view quite clear... only RCTs that pass your opinion matter and nothing else.... other than main stream pharma. Nothing will be deemed by you of value unless there is an RCT that 1) is done by main stream 2) complies with your view. Otherwise it is deficient.
To hell with the large base of evidence. No matter how much is out there, if it does not have a THH approved RCT, then it is crap. The results are caused by bias, the results are caused by a young population.. the results are caused ... by anything other than what is being tested!!! No matter how large the build up of evidence is....
This is proven by the fact that you have not shaded Remedisvir, current masking practices, lock downs or the current big pharma anti-virals with the same scrutiny and persistence that you do vit. D or ivermectin...
It is this double standard that draws the ire of many here... even if you do not see it... it is clear.
P.s. I did not name anyone in my previous post, but I guess if the shoe fits, one must wear it! 
Perhaps actual facts are starting to come out...
yet some here will shout this as damn anti-vaxxer rhetoric for sure!
....found that patients with vitamin D deficiency were 14 times more likely to have a severe or critical case of COVID-19.
Mortality among patients with sufficient vitamin D levels was 2.3%, compared with 25.6% in the deficient group.
This information has been posted here for two years... yet by a couple at least... has been cast as anti-vaxxer, anti-science, unfounded, death cult member misinformation.
20% reduction!!! How many lives would have been saved the past 2 years if high dose vitamin D (and it will eventually come out ivermectin as well) had been pushed as hard as:
1) masks ... of which 90% that were used were cloth, under the nose, etc. etc. had virtually ZERO affect and are STILL being forced on students today..... talk about unscientific misinformation.
2) Outdoor closure of parks etc.... totally absent of scientific backing and ZERO affect.
3) 6 foot indoor distancing at Walmarts.... if anyone here even attempts to defend this, I am sorry, they are ignorant...
however, readily available, inexpensive, NO RISK vitamin D could reduce mortality by 14x and not a peep from official mainstream medical or media..... as also clearly shown by the resistance to vit D by at least 2 members here is ...
simply criminal.
(while this study was done in Israel, I am sure at least one person here will simply dismiss it without reading because of the reporting source..... 
and "just because they did not read it... does NOT make it false!" 
)
I just now gave my 91 year old mother an at home antigen test at 2:00am. She was coughing and had a 95 temp. Result positive.
and yes.... she has been double jabbed and boostered Jed......
Unfortunately, because of the "vaccination only" approach, there are NO readily available treatments for her. These should have been developed from the beginning as well. And can I attempt to use Ivermectin??... HELL NO. My nephew who is a 10 year physician had been treating with ivermectin very successfully. Not one patient lost and NO side effects.(of course) His hospital notified him last week to cease and desist or lose his privilege's! This is pure bullshit...and it is people like Jed and you in this "Vaccine Only" campaign that have made it so. You have fought against ivermectin since day one.... along with other vaccine warriors. It is now not an option for me unless I go to court.
To be proactive, I had already checked with the local doctor and hospital in case she contracted covid, which I was sure she would... the jabs to not protect against that. There practice is basically do nothing until she turns blue then bring her to the emergency room. I will be contacting them first am, but there will be nothing they will do at present since she is pretty mild... thankfully.
A personal Covid story :
As posted above 8 days ago, my 91 year old mother tested positive. She lives with my wife and I and at 2:00am, she woke with a cough and a 99 temp. An at home antigen test returned positive.
We were sure to have my mother double jabbed, as she has extreme age, several comorbidities including COP and extreme osteoporosis. She is literally bent 90 degrees and cannot straighten up, so breathing is difficult for her at best of times.
However, I knew it was only a matter of time before she contracted Covid. The vaccines do not stop infection nor spread, even though some here still post that they do. As stated above, being proactive, I discussed with her local doctor and the hospital advocate about prepping for her eventual Covid case...... they said all that could be done was keep her comfortable and bring her to the ER when her oxygen drops below 90 for more than an hour.... i.e.... when she turns blue.. 
What an atrocity!
I have a nephew who is a doctor and actually treats Covid. He has not lost a single patient and has had great success, using the readily available protocols put forth by several, including the FLCCC. However, being a practitioner at a hospital, he was recently put on notice that he was under review for having his privilege's revoked (and thus his insurance) because he actually treated Covid. The formal hospital practice was do nothing until patients needed Remedisvir and then start intubating.... So he was not able to assist me.... 
(he is fighting this draconian injustice however)
Believe me, if I could, I would have physically forced the hospital admins to come to my mom's beside, and force them to look at her, while they refused treatment..... I am trying to refrain from using explicit language here..... JED and THH......
However, my nephew DID have a college who had a private practice and was still treating Covid. He put me in touch with her and we had a tele-visit late afternoon the next day...about 14 hours after testing positive....
This doctor prescribed.... high dose vitamin D (25k IU), high dose Vit. C and zinc. She also prescribed a steroid and antibiotic for immediate use if my mom started downgrading. Waiting in an ER at 3:00am might result in not getting any medical attention for hours, IF they did anything. So having this on hand for immediate use if necessary was proactive.
AND she prescribed a 6 day course of Ivermectin. Interestingly, (directed to some here) I had to drive 3 hours to obtain the prescription... most of the big chain pharmacies would not fill it... the other independent firms have been selling so much they cannot keep it in stock..... Yet the government is not tracking ANY of this.......it is being widely used for sure... how much is this skewing the data stats????
Alas...after all this, my mother was 91 and not in good shape and the local doctor said it was very likely not going to end well, even though she was double vaxxed. His experiences with his patients was this would not end well. I had to try though and would so again....
After all, all my mothers symptoms completely ceased within 24 hours and after 8 days, no relapses nor negative adverse events. She was as good after 2 days treatment as before!!!!
So much for the doctor and hospital whose experience was that this would end in death versus the two doctors who treat and have great success....
Yes.... since I did not have a RCT that THH or Jed approved of, I should have let me mom lay there gasping.... doing nothing until she was a goner.... well...
I am certainly glad I did not listen to you two.
I still have my mother with me... thankfully.
(My sincere condolences for those here who have lost family.)
My recommendation is that if you have family at high risk, find a doctor now that will treat covid, do not wait for them to get sick... and go to a hospital... have a plan in place along with suppliers for the medicine that the doctor you work with will likely prescribe so you can procure it....
I was fortunate that I had contacts... you may not be able to find a doctor that quick and early treatment IS CRITICAL....!!! Get your plan in place now.
Display MoreStraw man.
No-one is saying current vaccines can stop omicron variant some 30 mutations away from original.
The point of the vaccines is (1) protecting people from harm (2) reducing the speed and height of the peak (which is good if you want heath systems to cope).
(1) is proven even for omicron.
(2) is more contentious, and also it is a mixed blessing
Tell me who says what you say above? It was not even true for delta. I know no-one in the Uk who has said this after alpha.
Further, all the scientists (and it was reported) were saying they did not know how well vaccines would work on variants. So no-one EVER claimed vaccines would stop omicron in its tracks. The whole idea is scientifically ludicrous. The best you get is that vaccines might make a wave stop a bit sooner in terms of percentage of population infected. e.g. maybe 80% not 90% or whatever. But that is a pretty mild effect.
So whose media feed is saying that scientists say this? And on what evidence, which scientists, etc?
THH
Straw man?!?
"No-one is saying current vaccines can stop omicron variant some 30 mutations away from original."
Where did I say anything about "current vaccines / omicron/30 mutations" etc. etc..... nor did you address anything about the data... or the rest of my post. This is pure misdirection! Talk about straw man. You inserted argument that was not there.
My statement was about the entire handling of this pandemic and I think it pretty clear.
It is late at night and I am not going to lookup and link hundreds of posts, some from our own Jed here stating that if everyone would have gotten vaccinated, this pandemic would have been over. You KNOW that. My god man.
Who is saying these things..... please tell me what all the vaccine passports are for... if you are not jabbed you cannot go into public..... is this NOT to stop spread. So they are saying that the vaccinated do not spread it because they can still go out! Is this NOT the logic? Of course it is!
"So no-one EVER claimed vaccines would stop omicron"... . I NEVER said anything about omicron. You are attempting to misdirect away from the intent of my entire post.
I just now gave my 91 year old mother an at home antigen test at 2:00am. She was coughing and had a 95 temp. Result positive. and yes.... she has been double jabbed and boostered Jed...... I write this as I contemplate what to do.
Unfortunately, because of the "vaccination only" approach, there are NO readily available treatments for her. These should have been developed from the beginning as well. And can I attempt to use Ivermectin??... HELL NO. My nephew who is a 10 year physician had been treating with ivermectin very successfully. Not one patient lost and NO side effects.(of course) His hospital notified him last week to cease and desist or lose his privilege's! This is pure bullshit...
and it is people like Jed and you in this "Vaccine Only" campaign that have made it so. You have fought against ivermectin since day one.... along with other vaccine warriors. It is now not an option for me unless I go to court.
To be proactive, I had already checked with the local doctor and hospital in case she contracted covid, which I was sure she would... the jabs to not protect against that. There practice is basically do nothing until she turns blue then bring her to the emergency room. I will be contacting them first am, but there will be nothing they will do at present since she is pretty mild... thankfully.
Would you give YOUR 91 year old mother Paxlovid? I doubt it is even available, but if it were, it is crap. The bulk data of ivermectin is far larger and better than what little, biased "by the manufacturer" data available for Paxlovid, for sure!
If not for the campaign against it, I would have had some here now and already given to her.... but NOOOO.
So why do you not comment on my entire post and not try to mis-direct by inserting parameters into my dialog that were not there.
I said that people like Jed and mainstream HAVE and many still do... say that the vaccines would have stopped the pandemic and it is the unvaccinated that is at fault. There were NO other avenues actively pursued other than vaccinations, thus no current treatments.
My god man, even the delusional Biden keeps saying this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated!
You sir, are being perfidious with your answer above!!!!
Oh, by the way.... I wonder if I have time to run an unbiased* RCT on Paxlovid, or perhaps if I had you design a RCT on Ivermectin we could get it done and then the FDA would consider it for a couple of years and THEN it might be available for my mom....
I am need to go care for my mother.... and will not be pissing in the wind against those who care more about their agenda and "methodology" than saving lives.
Good bye for the foreseeable time.
*Do not tell me Pfizer did run a RCT... Phizer has had multi-billion judgements against them Pfizer set a record for the largest health care fraud settlement and the largest criminal fine of any kind with $2.3 billion in 2009. Sure I will trust them!"
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Dr. Campbell is a very level thinking person.
His video about data not being released will be decried by the liberal elite as "the majority of the people should not see the data... they are too stupid to interpret it" (We know who here really thinks that!)
It is true, something is afoul and really stinks...
Also, New Zealand... 97 - 99% vaccinated .... and yet forecasting 80,000 cases per day in a 5 million population.... so much for those who say the vaccines would stop this cold if the "damn unvaccinated" would get their jabs.. pandemic of the unvaccinated my ass..
It is this sole, "vaccination only and lockdown approach" that has not only ruined the economy, lives and and perhaps the worst.... brought more division to this world than anything in recent history!
....and "the data should not be released!"
This is an interesting win for Vit D.
The results look significant to me, and reducing autoimmune disease could have knock-on good effects.
Contrast this with many other claimed benefits of Vit D that alas have not held up to double-blind RCT scrutiny.
This is exactly the point to many posters frustration with the pandemic response and often yours....., almost more so than the mRNA treatments.....
Many have said here since day one... two years ago.... that vitamin D, Zinc and quercetin had known immune system benefits. That EVEN if they did not help much against Covid, there were many good reasons to take it anyway.... thus in light of the many reports that it helped Covid outcomes, governments should have been pushing this as much as masks and hand washing at least.
But no.... it was not THE mRNA jab and anything that may distract from those had to be demonized. Not a peep about D, Zn or other. Silence or even demonizing.
How many peoples lives would have been saved if there had been a national campaign to take the readily available D, Zinc and possible a few other compounds IN ADDITION to the mRNA jabs since Jan. 2020? I suspect a lot!
But it was the vaccine warriors all out campaign against everything other than the mRNA jabs that was stopping this.
I have taken Ivermectin twice now. the latest was yesterday as I felt symptoms coming on. Significant symptoms as in low grade fever ...99, a small cough, scratchy throat. As in many places, Omicron is active here. Both times the next morning (12 hours) I was symptom free and no "deathly side affects". Proof? not really.... will I take it again... 100% certainty....
I know of 3 local people who died this week... all twice jabbed and boostered to no avail as the hospital did little to help other than ventilate and all victims were younger than 60! Main stream medical treatment concerning Covid is a death sentence.
I am caring for my 91 year old mother.. (fully vaccinated)... but she cannot risk getting ANY covid. For me to "do nothing" is simply unacceptable.... .which is what the major medical field does, until you get so bad they can put you on a ventilator. And we all know, even you admit that being vaccinated does not stop one from getting or transmitting the virus.
What are you going to say when it comes out that Ivermectin actually does work as promoted? I know this is a bold statement, but I feel it is going to be so, however, it may be well into the future as it surely will be kept buried as long as possible.
Will your many, many posts aggressively against Ivermectin be worth the lives it would have saved? Remember, just like Vit. D, doctor prescribed Ivermectin is so safe that there is no downside it taking it...... there were no alternatives the past two years.
Low risk and possible protection, was immediately available, could be self administered... just like D, ZN and others?
In the meantime.... "Damn if anyone should take it because there was not a double blind, RCT done by Phizer" all while hundreds of thousands die.... the scores of other positive trials MUST be demonized as well.
"Follow the science my ass"! I should compile a post here that shows what countries are discontinuing mRNA jabs for young people versus those like the US who are demonizing those who do not fall in line... where is the science in that? Sincerely!
WHO has several conflicting policies versus the US.... which is following the science?
Of the 70 plus positive studies for ivermectin having hundreds of qualified researchers from several countries involved.... all evidently are incompetent because THH says those studies do not meet his approval and do not amount to ANY evidence at all and that ivermectin MUST be demonized?
So again, during two years when there was no treatment, there were some very, very safe compounds with 30+ year histories and 70+ reports showing that these compounds helped.
But simply because they did not meet ones own yard stick, they had to be demonized and fought against at all costs. Patients were left to die on ventilators because ivermectin, D, Zn etc. did not follow the agenda.
Your response probably will be... the trials were bad, Ivermectin will not work and thus this is all moot and emotional argument. Well...this same argument was about D we were saying the same thing as well were we not...... and as more info comes out, who was right?
This is quite sad really....and who is "following the science"...?????
It would be very nice to meet you some day and set down and have a cup of coffee... it really would! But the with the "Vaccine passports" being mandated from those that "follow the science", that may never happen! 
I'll try once more.
That may be (though clearly not always) but the same is true of the unvaccinated. In fact if 70% of the population are protected anyway it makes the relative advantage of vaccination over non-vaccination for those who are not survivors (and hence perhaps protected) even larger.
I could be wrong about Ws statement and will not go further into this other than this....
I think you misunderstand him... He is stating that 70% of the population if protected by previous infection that is being attributed to the vaccine.... I.E.. they had Covid and natural immunity is protecting them, not the vaccine but the information being presented is that it is the vaccine that is protecting them. I think he is stating that those that perish are only vaccinated and not previously infected. So if the total number is reduced by 70% but the deaths stay the same, then the rate of death for vaccinated is much higher.
W does NOT remove the previous infected from the unvaccinated because he should not. He is stating that people who do not get vaccinated, die less as they were not vaccinated, not that they did not previously have Covid.
If data says 100 people were vaccinated and 10 died that would be 10%.
But if 70% of the 100 were protected by previous Covid infection and not really by the vaccines, then it would leave 30 people vaccinated (not previously infected) with 10 deaths and that is 30% death rate.
If this is what he is stating, I do not know how all 10 "deaths" can be attributed to no previous infection however.
I do not know if his numbers are accurate, nor am I convinced that yours are either based upon understanding. I am just attempting to see if my interpretation of what he is saying is correct. Again, there is much muddying of the waters in the data.
I am convinced that most reported data is somewhat manipulated... I have two sisters who are nurses and they assure me that the reporting is HEAVILY influenced by money. I have even read several reports lately where this is being admitted that large percentages of deaths WITH Covid were being reports as FROM Covid.
And as ususal... I am not anti-vax, I am not saying that Covid is not a real concern. I DO state that the mRNA vaccines most likely should not be given to the young (under 18 or possibly higher) due to lack of long term safety knowledge, more and more adverse effects showing up and very, very low risk of Covid to this age group.
I also am 100% against vaccine passports as they are totally unscientific. Vaccinated pass the virus....especially Omicron.
This just does not make sense, it confused coincidence with causality.
This comment is not about the Dr. James story, but about this sentence.... and the popular statement that is becoming so often used... and at times abused .
"Correlation does not imply causation"
I have read this many times here and am beginning to think it is starting to become a crutch for some.
Yes, I fully understand that the statement at is basis is true and in real life "can" certainly be true. But on the other hand... something being "Correlation" does not prove it false either!
This is where the statement is becoming far, far to reaching... some here communicate "correlation = false", as if fact.
Dismissing correlation entirely, as if it does not suggest causation at all... This would dismiss a large swath of important scientific evidence. No, correlation does not prove anything, but it IS evidence. It may be weak, strong or as much of the time, completely unknown. But to totally dismiss something simply because it is correlation is foolish.
Especially if the total package of "correlation evidence" ALL starts pointing to a particular outcome.
Proof? No. Blindly dismiss because of "dogma".....unwise.
Bad news for the vaccine terrorists:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/0…iden-vaccine-mandate.html
Supreme court blocks Bidens vaccine mandate.
What a crazy world.
Not vaccinated ... hospitals fire you as the Supreme Court ruled against regular employers, they let stand the mandate on healthcare workers.
There is a serious health care worker shortage!
Answer...???? Hire back unvaccinated workers who test negative??? HELL NO!
But to allow vaccinated people who are COVID POSITIVE to come back to work!
What a crazy, crazy, crazy world! This is kin to putting the Covid positive patients INTO nursing homes again! Complete insanity.
We all know here that vaccinated, Covid positive people certainly CAN and DO transmit the virus.
Yet they are allowed to work in a hospital, but a non-positive, non-vaccinated person cannot!
Complete insanity.
Now this article states that it is OMICRON "causing the shortage" .... fake news of course
Not Omicron according to this article:
Oh wait... this is from October! Well before Omicron started! hmmmm...
Again.
whoops... October again! No Omicron here!
Here in January however, people fired simply due to vaccine status.
This world is going insane..... and the media spin it to their agenda....
Display MoreThat is what I mean.
You consistently misunderstand the details here in a way that the antivaxxers take advantage of.
For example: at the start of pandemic, and when vaccines were first used, there was very little herd immunity. Now there is lots of herd immunity to delta, and no herd immunity to omicron.
The original vaccines, at 70%, would have given us quick herd immunity to COVID original, and at 80% herd immunity to alpha. Delta destroyed that.
You imagine that the scientists who are pro-vax were saying something different. They were not. The politicians, as always, simplify things.
You then use those political simplifications as reasons to believe antivaxxer likes because you are too lazy to check in detail, and place as much trust in weirdo's like our W and weird antivaxxer blogs as you do all the normal scientists (who also BTW have blogs, which no-one posts here).
THH
Back from travels... no symptoms yet... very thankful.
However, everyone I personally know that now has tested positive is double jabbed and several boostered and the count is growing very fast! I personally do not know of anyone who has contracted Covid previously that has came down with a second case. So much for the jabs being the same as natural immunity. Anyway,,,,
"The original vaccines, at 70%, would have given us quick herd immunity to COVID original, and at 80% herd immunity to alpha. Delta destroyed that."
THH, you are committing the very same simplification and error that you accuse Shane of doing!
There WERE some countries that hit 70% but it did not stop the virus.....not even close...
But MAINLY.... the mRNA protection lasts less than 6 months for both transmission and contracting. The current mRNA vaccines would / will NEVER stop the virus. Yet you posit "it could have".... no, it is highly unlikely.. but "could haves" are hard to prove are they not. I can say that if everyone took Ivermectin, it "could have" stopped the pandemic dead in its track as well. Can't really say that can I.... and neither should you about the mRNA jabs. They would not nor will stop this! They simply do not last long enough.
Unfortunately, "could haves" abound in this world and many are "realistically impossible". If not a single person left their house for 1 year, the pandemic would have ended as well... perhaps (wildlife reservoirs?)... but certainly not a possible scenario is it.
And likewise, it is impossible to give mRNA boosters to the entire world every 4 months either. Simply cannot happen and the durability of the mRNA jabs simply are not cutting it. Giving someone a shot every 4 months would be catastrophic anyway, safety wise.
So, this mis-information and "mRNA only" approach has and is causing bad decisions on other non-mRNA options and has caused as much if not more damage than "antivaxxers", of which there are very few here anyway,
Vaccine passports my ass! When the vaccines do not stop the spread, this is clearly "mis-information" and destructive.
While I know you really dislike Wyttenbach's posts, (I often do not like the tone either) but I must say, time has proven him correct much more so than not when looking at the big picture.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that serious long term effects he often proposes does not happen...... I really, really do.... but there has been zero long term safety studies and it is very concerning, the data starting to come forward... more each week it seems.. And the fact that pharma is asking for a 75 year delay in releasing test data is very damning and concerning.....along with complete immunity to legal proceedings!
No, the real issue is the one sided, politicized and draconian approach that has been taken by vaccine warriors.
The letter that Dr. Storms wrote about main stream science and cold fusion could very easily swap out pharma/main stream media concerning this pandemic and the letter would STILL be spot on.
I hope every one has a good and safe Holiday!
I must leave for the next few weeks, but I wanted to post one more contemplation before I have to sign off for the period. Perhaps we can all ponder this for a while!
"It is those people in the world that think they know it all, that make it hard for us who do!"
Merry Christmas everyone!
Anyone who thinks otherwise is misinformed. Anyone who thinks a cocktail of vitamins and worming pills changes the risks a lot is misinformed.
That is your opinion. I also realize that you will say "no it is not, it is science". I understand your point of view. However, I also acknowledge there are a very large number of educated and accredited people in this world that would state "you are the one misinformed".
The same as Jed states about your views on LENR and you state about his views. Both of you are educated. Concerning LENR, Jed has had a LOT of hands on and personal experience. You have arm chair opinion based upon your views of data.
When it comes to Covid, you both tend to agree. Although not entirely. You admit vaccines are not primarily stopping spread, while Jed trumphets the vaccines would stop it cold if everyone was vaccinated. Anyway, there is no difference. You both have an opinion based upon your view as you understand them. Whether Covid or LENR, yet you both come to opposite conclusions!
There are many researchers, doctors and analyst that state ivermectin works. There are many that also state the safety of mRNA vaccines is less than stellar... how bad...probably no one knows at this time... long term wise... even short term more is coming in question.
You stated above that I was arrogant. I think your thinking that you are not "popular" here is because you simply disagree with the crowd. I do not think that the case. It is because your are extremely arrogant. You post that you know data and that the people that wrote many reports, published and practiced hands on simply do not stack up to your arm chair analytics. I do not care if you have a degree... so do most of the researchers that wrote those reports.
Well, no report is fully telling. No report is perfect... especially several from big pharma that you do not dissect with the same set of knives as the reports that are against your world view. That is why you are unpopular with several, especially including the LENR circles!
Take FM1. I have not counted but a good percentage of his posts are actually pro-vaccine. Stating that thinks are doing well. Or perhaps posting about other potential drugs or avenues that show promise. He does not simply dwell on ivermectin. However you and Jed dwell only on vaccines and nothing else. Most of the people on this forum are far, far more open to a wide range of solutions to the pandemic. This does not make them anti-vaxxers. More people have died in the same amount of time after the vaccine roll out than before. It is clear we need other avenues in addition to vaccines.
So take Dr. Lawrie for example. She is a MBBCH and Ph.D. She consults for the WHO. She is a meta-analysis expert. She has published and is known extensively.
Who are you?
I am not trying to expose you, but I am stating you are a poster that has no qualifications. No more than I do on this site. Why would I take your opinion over Dr. Lawrie's? Seriously?
Why would I take your opinion over McKubre, Storms or even MagicSound concerning LENR? These all have HIGH credentials and experience and subject training..... and you have only a posters name.
Now that does not mean you do not have good arguments on both sides... but you are not the final say in either! I will give McKubre or Storms opinions much more weight than yours any day.
I will give Lawrie much more weight than you. And this is not a diss on you. You are simply an anonymous poster that has some clear math skills. No match for Lawrie's credentials and published accolades however in my book and most others. I hope you do see this is not a personal attack. You do not know me and I do not know you.... or even details.. Axil Axil can talk a very big talk, but that does not make him a real expert.... on anything!
And finally, several of us here are not stupid stooges either. I have a degree and 40 years experience. I am not a degreed statistician but I do have several qualifications that truthfully can be more important than paper statistics. You do not seem to grasp that apparently. I know my weakness and strengths, but that does not mean I lack discerning capabilities.
Perhaps that is why you feel unpopular and that is why several here think you are simply wrong. And they are not retarded "anti-vaxxers" to think that.
Arrogant indeed...
About that ivermectin shortage:
Vet quality ivermectin is in very short supply in the UK - leading to likely slaughter of animals that can't be treated. The reason is people self-dosing on animal ivermectin.
Another BS piece similar to the "ER's being over run by ivermectin overdoses". I grew up on a farm.. No one would ever slaughter livestock because they could not get ivermectin. Not only are there several alternatives, but most infections are treated soley for the goal of pushing up weight gain not any safety issue. Pure agenda based Bull Shit.
Note that the article has "suggests" and "worried" and "can be fatal"! Another trash piece and why?
I do not doubt that animal Ivermectin is being purchased and even possibly in short supply, it is just not an issue with farmers.
Quite sad. The tone of the anti-ivermectin people are becoming more and more personal attack based as well.
Again... some here keep using the term anti-vaxers.... I do not think there is a single anti-vaxer on this forum. Some argue vehemently against giving mRNA therapy to the young. No one here argues giving it to high risk and elderly.
But as usual, name calling comes out when it becomes more personal than fact based... from either side I might add.
I explained that already. Youth does not stop infections, but young people often do not report their infections, because the cases are mild. This is especially true in India and other third world countries, because both young and old people cannot afford to go to a doctor. So, cases among young people are undercounted even more than the general population.
All in all, public health statistics from India are worse than useless. They give rise to nonsensical beliefs such as the notion that ivermectin has a positive effect for anything other than parasites.
Then I misunderstood as I my reading of your first two posts did not register with me as you tying the youth with bad data together.... My apologies then.
Still, the worms.....
As far as the bad data... WHO publishes it and makes no disclaimers. That is where I directly linked the India data from.
So that is a very big statement saying "worse than useless". You are then directly stating published WHO data is unreliable and even "worse than useless". Then other countries results are suspect as well.... or are you saying only India is incapable? How do you know which country is accurate? Only the ones that support a particular agenda? WHO publishes this data as their official record. You are now stating it is useless.
hmmm.. what to trust.. what to trust.
Display MoreSo that leaves temperature. Hmmm. the biggest waves the US and UK have had have only been in cooler months??? No, there are summer outbreaks as well! How is India in August? Temps there average in the 80's to low 90's. Quite moderate yet still no big outbreaks! hmmm....
You are here not doing quantitative analysis.
I said R was multifactorial and meant it.
A new COVID wave, if there is little immunity or vaccination, can start in winter or summer. Delta had R some 2X higher than alpha. The difference between UK highish infection rate and India v low infection rate can be just 10% on R. temperature and ventilation (Indian buildings will be better ventilated than Uk buildings even in Summer, for obvious reasons) can make much more than that. I am not saying i can quantify this - I am saying it is plausible and you cannot argue "that looks strange" on the basis of the evidence you have.
I never stated I was using quantitative analysis. I am looking at raw data and forming "possible" conclusions. I am also taking raw data and seeing how it stacks against some people's assertions.
I also never stated that you had done a quantitative analysis on India either. But I did point out that you have stated the low infection rates were likely due to youth, weather and immunity. All of which are not quantitative, are anecdotal and lacking....
all the very things you say against ivermectin.....
Indeed this is a very difficult thing to judge. You state that I am arrogant.. I think it is a bit arrogant that you dismiss so readily, 60+ trials and analysis' by people that have as much or more qualifications than you!
Do you not keep stating there is NO evidence that ivermectin works?! To me that is indeed a bit arrogant. My whole "India" thread is not meant to be quantitative, nor have I said it was. It is simply that there is evidence (circumstantial indeed, but quite significant) that ivermectin should be at least considered as one of the reasons why India is doing well..... yet you say there is NO evidence or reason to consider it.
That is my point and only my point. (and that the magnifying glass given to ivermectin is NOT applied to main stream pharma claims)
Signing off for today and I hope all have a good Holiday!
There are millions of cases of worms in India, many undiagnosed. The population is manifestly young. So, you are saying "we can ignore reality and pretend things are the way I claim." You can, I guess, but people who are interested in facts and reality will not join your fantasy world.
No, it is not. The double blind tests prove conclusively that it has no effect. You cannot just make up stuff and pretend the science does not work. Or, I should say, you can, but you cannot expect grown-ups to join you.
???
Jed, I do not think you are reading my response.
I am not denying India has a lot of youth.... I am stating that youth does not stop infection rates. Even THH has stated that youth (5+) was a major component of UK's high infection rate.
So again... my statement is not that India has no youth, but the claim that India's low infection rate is due to youth is not valid. Young people still get covid. India's low infection rate is not because of young age.
Again, I do not know how many people in India have worms... I am stating worms make no difference in infection rates.... unless someone is taking ivermectin for those worms. It is not the worms but the ivermectin making the any possible difference.
Jed states "the double blind tests prove" but provides no links. There has been linked many, many times here 60+ trials that state ivermectin does have an impact... several of which are double blind RCTs. So I can also say that Jed is making things up when he states that ivermectin has no evidence that it works. There is more evidence that it works than does not. As with Remedisvir, there are those who say it works and those who say it does not (WHO)
Oh well.
Display MoreBob - COVID epidemiology is multidimensional and so many factors vary between countries. It is not easy to quantify, but here are the obvious differences UK vs India, which explain what you view as surprising above:
(1) India has much higher past infection rate => more immunity. If 70% of children are immune from past infection you are in a different situation from if not.
(2) India is hot country - virus degrades faster and indoor rooms have better ventilation, people are outdoor more. (The only exception here is the highly industrialised parts where air con can circulate air indoors).
There is a misunderstanding in your analysis. The infection rate does not depend on R. Instead R alters the rate of change of the infection rate. For example that, everywhere now, will be positive due to omicron. But you won't see that until the omicron levels get large enough to be visible, and that depends on how muhc of it seeded early on (the UK as always does really badly for that).
Ok so from the list we remove "worms" and youth.
If we add previous infection immunity, then we are giving a big thumbs up to the reports that infection does a better job than vaccinations. Since India has low vaccination and low case count this supports that previous infection trumps vaccination. (vaccinated countries are foundering remember) and that vaccinating the youth will probably not impact much.... ?
Now how about this immunity.... you state 70%, not sure where you get this. However, UK is surely at or above this! Since we now agree that previous infection works (you attribute India's success to this) then take all of UK's vaccinations plus previous infections and you will certainly be well above 70%. They are 70.1% fully vaccinated so counting previous infections, they will be well over 70%. Very much over!
| England | 102M102,000,000 | 39.2M39,200,000 | 70.1% |
Thus, previous infection, like youth, does not seem to support this situation does it? Or are you saying that the 71% vaccination gives little to no immunity?
So that leaves temperature. Hmmm. the biggest waves the US and UK have had have only been in cooler months??? No, there are summer outbreaks as well! How is India in August? Temps there average in the 80's to low 90's. Quite moderate yet still no big outbreaks! hmmm....
I guess we would need to see some statistical studies on this temperature idea to support it. Sounds like it might be pretty much "anecdotal" to me... now that is something you surely would not support nor spread around is it???? Seriously, this is does not seem scientifically supported as you seem to apply "scientific" to ivermectin.
So I find the temperature logic lacking and unsupported.... although not disproven any more than ivermectin.
So that leaves Jed's, "you cannot believe India data" as I previously mentioned???? Well, I am unsure why India reports show huge case load for a April - May and now very low. Was they only reporting during April and May? What has changed? All I can say is that it is the reported numbers by WHO and World o Meter. If one wants to bash these numbers, they can bash any World o Meter numbers I guess?
or.... ivermectin a distinct possibility! Is there anything else?
