Posts by axil


    Silver will coat the carbon sphere that faces the plasma.

    Based on Layered Composite Thermal Insulation as follows:

    A highly insulated N concentric sphere setup that holds CO2 between the spaces between the concentric sphere shells will produce a radiator whose outer surface is at room temperature and its innermost shell is at 3000K.

    The innermost shell produces CO2 at 3000K. Outer shells could be made from stainless steel to save cost. CO2 cooled to room temperature returning from the turbine can flow from the outer shells to the innermost shall extracting heat from each shell layer thus cooling each shell layer progressively in turn as the flow of CO2 travels inward. Little heat energy is lost in this setup to the ambient.

    axil : You seem to miss most content of Mills work. The word cooling and heat transfer are synonyms. The actual, first to be sold version of the SUN-CELL is just a heater, as I already said (my prognosis) a year ago. Mills generates XUV that is far brigther than the sun. It's even to strong (intense) for current available high-power PVC. SUN-CELL XUV is not 200nm is starting at 10nm.

    The problem is, that even Mills might not understand, what really is going on in his machine. In reality he has a table top fusion reactor.


    The area under the curve describes the power that is produced by the 3000K carbon radiator. It looks to me that the power produced in the visible range is just 10% or less of the power available in the light spectrum produced by the SunCell. That visible range is subject to another percentage reduction based on the efficiency of the solar cells. As an estimate, 5% or less of the optical power produced by the SunCell is converted to electricity.

    Note that at 3000K, a black body radiator will convert most of the energy it emits as infrared radiation. It is true that the SunCell reaction produce loads of energy as XUV but the carbon sphere converts most of that energy to infrared radiation thus wasting most of that light energy.

    A better design for a thermal based SubCell is to capture heat in a layer of supercritical CO2 confined in the space between a concentric double sphere (BA) with the inner layer (A) being a translucent sphere of boron nitride that confines the CO2 and the outer sphere (B) composed of graphite which is the black body radiator.

    The efficiency of a CO2 supercritical turbine operating at temperature of 3000K is around 90%..



    Rossi has shown himself to be and ignorant and arrogant simpleton. Abram shoves the evidence in Rossi's face and nevertheless. there is no recognition, let alone acknowledgment.

    For a plasma lamp, a truly refractory tube is not needed. You just water cool the envelope because the envelope can be at a far lower temperature than the plasma. As I described in the case of the continuously pumped YAG laser, water cooled lamps have been done for many many years, including high and low pressure plasma lamps. If you are water cooling and expect to transmit UV, you better remove all of the metal ions out of the water.

    The SunCell's mechanism for producing over unity energy is a self sustaining plasma that requires no external energy input. It sounds counterproductive to that reaction for it to be cooled. Cooling is applied to the solar cells that cannot operate at the ambient temperature of the self sustaining plasma. The function of this plasma is to produce extreme ultra violet light and not heat. In fact, most of the EMF coming off the this plasma are high energy photons. It is highly probable that the heat produced by the plasma is what produces and sustains the plasma.

    Rossi also claims to be producing a self sustaining plasma.

    In the solid state SunCell that has been described above in post 91, it is possible to thermally isolate the tube that is producing the self sustaining plasma using a vacuum formed between the inner and concentric outer BN tube. This outer BN tube completely encloses and thermally isolates the primary inner tube where the self sustaining plasma is being generated.

    To apply this thinking to the SunCell itself as a design upgrade, the cooling system can be removed from the SunCell design if the solar cells are inclosed in a chamber made of boron nitride or some other translucent ceramic material that is kept in a vacuum to isolate the solar cells from 3000C heat produce by the plasma.

    In the picture below, SunCell cooling system is labeled "Heat Rejection" and "PV Module Cooling". The car radiator, associated piping, electric fans, valves, and pumps can all be removed from the SunCell design by using insolation rather that heat rejection.


    The tubes are transparent at room temperature. Can you get transparent boron nitride?

    Bigger than this, of course.


    Both hexagonal and Cubic Boron nitride are transparent at certain EMF wavelengths and cubic BN has the same structure and properties as diamond. BN can be hot pressed to produce a translucent tube that will allow high energy photons to pass through. Using this stuff, there is a good chance that the SunCell could be miniaturized to produce XUV light with the same characteristics of the SunCell and pass that light through a translucent BN tube. The key to this concept is the manufacture of the tube. BN is hot pressed just like the other ceramic materials that are used in LENR to form tubes. A refractory metal like Tungsten could be used for the heat resistance electrodes and Solar cells could surround the BN tube or an array of BN tubes. In effect using BN, the SunCell could be converted into a solid state device with no moving parts.

    Silver could be used as a metal vapor in the same way that occurs in the SunCell. A photonic base down shifting mechanism such as used in a florescent light could be used to convert the XUV light into the visible light range usable by Solar Cells.


    Most of the ultraviolet wavelengths are not absorbed.

    Rossi claims to be running the QuarkX for a year without refueling.

    One of the biggest challenges in the QuarkX design is keeping hydrogen contained inside the tube at 2700C for an extended period of time. The containment material must have to be very dense, thermally stable, and impermeable to hydrogen escape at those very high temperatures. Hexagonal Boron nitride is a good candidate for a compound that would minimize hydrogen leakage at those extremely high temperatures.

    Other properties that the tube material must possess is derived from being an “electrical insulator”. This is necessary to avoid any electromagnetic interaction from the tube material that might interfere with plasma ions.

    The tube material must not interfere with electrostatic and/or magnetic stimulation. An electrical indicator will provide this property.

    I can understand why Rossi needs to run this reactor for a very long time (sigma 5) to make sure that the tube material holds up both physically and electromagnetically and that this tube does not leak hydrogen to any significant degree.

    And that oxygen corrosion does not affect the structure of the tube over an extended timeframe of a year of operation. As a matter of fact, an oxide coating on the surface of the boron tube will effectively block hydogen penetration through that surface coating.

    You cannot deal in averages - it doesn't work. Look at the spectral transmittance of sapphire - alumina will have that transmittance but with wavelength dependent scattering. Do some research, don't just speculate.

    If your belief were true, then the entire length of the alumina tube would be lit by the central hot spot as in an incandescent light bulb. But the tube does not glow in a uniformly distributed light. Most of the light generated by the filament passes through the hottest section of the tube only.

    This hot spot based reckoning has been verified by Rossi's latest experiment where a hot spot is also present. Blackbody generated light is produced by the hot spot that does not melt the nickel electrodes at the edge of the tube. And yet, subsequent calorimetric measurements back up the initial spectroscopic calculations of energy gain.


    Andrea Rossi
    May 20, 2017 at 3:07 PM

    Frank Acland:

    You know, we too were very sceptical when we found this new order of magnitude of COP and power density, so anytine we make measurements both with Wien and Boltzmann equations after spectrometry and get a certain COP, eventually we make calorimetric measurements and get the same order of magnitude of COP we are very enthusiast, also because now we are arrived at a Sigma rating very high, albeit lower than 5.

    Warm Regards,


    Jack said he had a hot coil (filament) inside. The coil (filament) may be well above 1000°C. The light from that high temperature coil (filament) is transmitted through the cooler alumina shell, which is at 350°C. Then you end up with a spectrum from the transmitted light from the hot coil (filament) plus the blackbody spectrum emitted by the 350°C alumina shell.

    Shouldn't the reaction temperature be accurately reckoned at 1000C rather that 350C. The place in the alumina tube closest to the filament is receiving heat at 1000C not at a distance where the temperature is cooled to 350C. We are dealing with a very hot spot here. The AVERAGE temperature of the tube might be 350C but where the hot spot is, the temperature is 1000C. You can not state that alumina is translucent at the average temperature of 350C, it may be translucent very near the hot spot where the temperature is 1000C.

    Axil, you are just wrong! Do the experiment. Even at room temperature alumina is translucent. The material has a high degree of scattering, but passes most of the incident light. You can easily make this measurement with a laser pointer and a stack of flat alumina substrates. The spot gets bigger and bigger as it passes through more substrate, but most of the light makes it through. In Jack's experiment, as in Lugano, a hot internal filament will produce much more emitted light (and a different spectrum) than would be expected based on the temperature of the envelope. An old incandescent light bulb may have a 2500°K spectrum, but the bulb glass envelope may only be 150°C.

    Also, don't forget that alumina is polycrystalline sapphire, the crystallites of which each have a very broad range of transmission.

    How can a blue white light be produced in an experiment that uses resistant heat at 350C. Is the reaction producing a laser like effect? The measured heat at 350C and the observation of a 5000K light source does not make sense to me. It is not blackbody or is it?


    I'm referring to the Lugano alumina tube reactor, not to the QuarkX.

    In the Rossi vs Darden thread I half jokingly proposed that an internal bright light source or filament could render the tube incandescent at low temperatures but I wasn't aware that Jack Cole actually verified this in his own experiments.

    There is something wrong with this experiment. The production of that light can't be from a 350C heat source. Alumina is NOT transparent at 350C. When something looks wrong in an experiment, then the results of that experiment must be reexamined.

    Interesting, so a very bright internal source can indeed make it appear incandescent even at lower temperatures.

    That is hard to beleive. There must be a way to test this assumption by setting up a resistive heat source inside the tube that could produce the same blue white light production effect.

    It might be that the LENR reaction wants to run hot at just below 3000C. This could be why Rossi has had problems with burnouts over the years when the balance between cooling applied to the LENR reactor's structure and LENR heat production is lost. It may be that a LENR reactor that loses cooling of its structure will fail when the temperature of the plasma produced by LENR begins to rise to its stability point at 2700C.

    Rossi's solution to the reactor meltdown problem as deminstated by the QuarkX is to ensure that his reactor can survive the highest temperature that the LENR reactor can produce.

    This could mean that any LENR reactor that depends on external cooling to keep its operating temperature under the LENR reaction stability temperature is subject to meltdown if the external cooling is lost.

    Rossi's sigma 5 testing could be a method to check high temperature endurance in the Quark structural material.

    One thought that I have in the back of my mind is that the SunCell reaction can sustain a self-sustaining plasma for minutes on end without any external stimulation of energy input. This indicates that a plasma can reach a state of equilibrium where it can maintain its own temperature that does not increase beyond a certain stability point.

    Similarities between systems sometimes lends insights into their underlying mechanisms.

    Could the QuarkX be a tiny version of the SunCell? If so, this insight could imply some important reactor design principles.

    For example, it is interesting that the boiling point of nickel and the 2700C operating temperature of the QuarkX are the same.

    It might be that the stability temperature of the plasma based LENR reactor can be set through the use of the metal used in its electrodes. For example, a QuarkX using silver electrodes might have a stable plasma temperature at 2200C which happens to be the boiling point of silver. An alumina tube in a QuarkX configuration just might be able to handle that operating temperature.

    There could be a relationship between the boiling point of conductive metal used in the reaction and melting point of the insulating structural material used to confine that metal plasma.

    Brian Ahern has given us critical insight into the underpinnings of LENR when he postulates that nanoparticles are central to the LENR reaction. But there particles must be energized when they are newly formed during condensation out of vapor.


    use the link below to find the boiling point of elements…/

    A lead electrode might be in the operating range of alumina at lead's boiling point of 1800C.

    Just to give himself some operational safety factor, Rossi may be using Boron Nitride (melting point -> 2,973 °C) for the structural tube for his QuarkX reactor.

    The SunCell is sure to melt down when tungsten is used as its electrode metal with a boiling point of 5555C. Using silver makes for a colder reaction. If you use tungsten in your reactor you are asking for a meltdown.

    A zirconia tube (2,715 °C) might be able to handle a nickel electrode. A zirconia tube will handle a silver electrode boiling temperature for sure.

    An aluminum electrode (2519C ) used with a zirconia tube looks like a good match with some meltdown safety factor tossed in. This apparent materials michmatch Rossi may have had some meltdown issues when he started out using an alumina tube in his hot cat.

    If you want to use lithium aluminum hydride to supply your hydrogen, it might be wise to use a zirconia tube.

    If you use titanium(3287C) hydride for your hydrogen, you are askings for a meltdown.

    I looked at the paper. It is a paper on theory and it does not show the detailed steps needed to create an experiment that can be replicated. If Rossi did that he'd have to give away his IP, assuming he has some.

    No one has created the ultra-detailed procedure for how to build and test a reactor that can be replicated by others. This is the fundamental problem in the LENR field, and it's why most of the scientific community ignores the field. To outsiders it looks like a bunch of guys working on perpetual motion machines.

    Let us go through that paper and dig out the details that you need. To start out, what is your most pressing issue?

    It's amazing after all these years no one has published an ultra-detailed procedure to define an experiment to show excess heat.

    The Rossi Gullstrom paper describes such an experiment. The paper also reveals some technical hints and in fact is pushing out such reaction clues as the quadrupole magnetic field.

    StephenC says:

    The indications that you highlight imply that there is a hot spot that is generated at the center of the QX tube. This characteristic is reminiscent of the concentration that occurs in a magnetic and/or electrostatic trap.

    At 2700C, the hot spot is far too hot to support a metal coil anywhere close to it. This implies that the end caps may be the place where the quadrupole magnetic field is produced that supplies the confinement that may form the hot spot.

    Here is an example of a trap that is forms using a dual quadrupole field produced by the lower temperature endcap regime.


    Hot pressed Boron Nitride can be coated with an oxygen resistant micro layer via vapor deposition.


    During the Boron Nitride hot pressing operation, a axial channel can be prefabricated through the positioning of a capillary Tantalum wire placeholder that could be drilled out after the hot pressing manufacturing process.

    The QX design has changed over time. It initially produced 100 watts at first then it was downsized to 20 watts. Now it is up to 240 watts in the latest version. The 100 watt QX temperature was just beyond the melting point of nickel. Now in the 240 watt version, its temperature is up to 2700C. Rossi when through a period of burnups where the alumina was not standing up to the high heat produced by the QX. He came up with a ultra high temperature replacement tube design which I beleive is Boron nitride. Rossi had to convert a block of this stuff into a tube so he says that he has created something that you can;t find on the market, There are no small such Boron nitride capillary tubes on the market. The magnetic field cannot pass through a metal tube so the tube must be a good electrical insulator like Boron nitride,

    It's a simple question, have you, or any of the other Rossi disciples, donated/"invested" one penny toward "the Cause" (directly to a Rossi, or through an investment fund), or asked Rossi if you might invest in his greatest invention of the century??? If not, seems rather hypocritical (at best).

    I have interested myself since Rossi appeared on the LENR stage to move his technology into open source for scientific research. The next phase is to restrict both Rossi and IH LENR technology under government regulation as a harmful sub atomic particle source.

    Problem is, Rossi has no huge pot of money other than funds that he conned, when that is gone , or forced to be clawed back, he is out of "business" (and if he is convicted of fraud, now or later, he will owe multiples of any damages and possibly attorney fees). Unless of course you wish to "donate" your life-savings and retirement to the "Rossi Cause"; have you done so, if not, why, you all believe it is a sure thing and thus would make $$bazillions$$, and I'm sure that Rossi would take your investment money. Have you written him a check, you should put your money where your mouth is.

    You and your like are faced with a whack-a-mole situation. Your interaction with Rossi is not your only problem. I support open source LENR development. There will be more LENR developers than you can shake a stick at. What are you going to do with R. Mills and the SunCell? The LENR reaction is happening in Safire. You just can't fight mother nature.

    Building a QuarkX reactor does not seem to be that complicated.

    Use Boron Nitride as the reactor tube to support temperature upto 3000C.

    see post below for background.

    Rossi Replication Technology

    Put some Aluminum Lithium Hydride enriched in Lithium 7 (99%) in the tube based on the size of the tube.

    Use nickel electrodes at each end of the tube.

    Preheat the tube to at least 2000C.

    Set up a very high voltage DC induced electrostatic field (50 to 100 kilovolts as per Rossi's patent) between the electrodes that does NOT involve the production of a spark.…621/PDOC/WO2016018851.pdf

    Configure a quadrupole magnetic field with the center of the quadrupole centered along the axis of the tube.




    Nucleon polarizability and long range strong

    force from I=2 meson exchange potential

    If the tube stays hot at 2000C or above, then the reactor is working.

    quizzical: Perhaps more importantly, it seems clear to me that many other researchers (Parkhomov, Brillouin energy, me356, Suhas, Holmlid and others) are obtaining positive results (e.g. COP > 1) along with indications of nuclear effects.

    It might be supportive of Rossi's case for his counsel to introduce into evidence the upcoming video produced by MFMP showing the ME356 replication of Rossi's basic technology as fully functional and gainful. This video would place into doubt the testimony and assertions made by the IH paid expertes that the conservation of energy law cannot be violated. This video could also support an appeal by Rossi that disputes the assertion that LENR is not functional and that the verdict that is based on that assumption is invalid and not operable.

    Furthermore, the MFMP personnel who would have conducted that test of ME356's LENR technology could be called by Rossi's counsel to support the notion that LENR is now capable of substantial and indisputable gainful power production.

    There already existed video of Randell Mills' SunCell System that support gainful energy production that might show that the field of alternative energy production is making progress.

    Andrea Rossi
    May 17, 2017 at 4:34 PM


    My working time now is 50% dedicated to the litigation, 50% to the QuarkX, but luckily the trial will end by the end of July, so, at this point, we are in the home stretch.

    Thank you for your kind words,

    Warm Regards,



    With the certainty of an unending appeal that will be undertaken by either party in the Rossi/IH trial, Rossi has not yet understood that this legal process in protecting his IP rights is an unending legal job that will probably extend beyond his life expectancy. He needs to setup a corporate structure that can support continuing litigation in perpetuity through the long term and can persist and be sustained beyond his lifetime.

    Rossi can only fight one foe at a time in court. While IH anf Rossi are engaged in battle, other parties can infringe on Rossi's IP rights with little chance of legal entanglements. While Rossi and IH are contesting in court, they both become non factors in the LENR marketplace.

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    In which case you misunderstand me. My point is that you cannot create a high voltage plasma inside a conducting metal capillary tube. I refer to current flow, because that is what it is normally described as - I too read and understood the Rossi/Gullstrom paper and understand perfectly well we are talking high voltage low current. The idea that you could make that happen inside a lumbar puncture needle is (sorry to say it) just daft.

    You could make a plasma inside a very large metal tube of course, or a Tokamak. But there you need some neat tricks to keep plasma and metal walls apart. Do you think AR has fitted some superconducting magnets into the Quark? :)

    Further to this, you could not measure the plasma temperature inside such a tube (even if you could by some miracle make the plasma inside it) because all you would be measuring is the skin temperature of the metal containment.

    Insulators become conductors at high temperatures and metals become insulators at high temperatures. See:


    At 2700C the nature of the electrical resistance of the structure of the reactor core could be completely reversed.