Posts by joshg

    perhaps you did not see my point

    I saw your point. I don't think you saw the irony in what you said. Although, upon further reflection, I guess it wasn't ironic. You admitted in your post that mods have biases and then clearly stated what your bias was.


    What is ironic I guess is that you seem to view the lack of equivalence between shill accusations as a matter of fact rather than as a result of your bias. Whatever. I don't want to derail this thread, if that is even possible at this point. I simply wanted to point out the double standard here that leans in IH's favor... If you want to try to justify that double standard on the basis of your own biases, go for it!

    In his deposition, Murray testified that I.H. has laid off its entire technical staff. They have closed down. So they have not taken anything from Rossi's technology, and they are not developing anything. There was nothing to take.

    Except you kind of, sort of forgot about how they started HMRI R&D with LaGatta. Technically what you say is true, but only because they created yet another shell company to deal with R & D. I'm damned curious to know what they're working on if it's not Rossi-esque tech. According to the press release, they're going to be working in collaboration with MIT, Texas Tech and Industrial Heat. So Mitchell Swartz and Duncan seem to be in the mix. But you are dead wrong that they're not developing anything.


    You also said in the past that they had a good engineering team even before they hired Murray. But from the depositions they swear it was just Vaughn and Dameron. Do you know something we don't?

    Its very clear to me who Ele and Ahifors are. The Rossi team is down to 2 players and getting desparate, although quite why they value our thoughts here is beyond me.

    And if this Ahlfors is here at Rossi's behest -which I suspect he is

    What, no warning from the mods about not making these kinds of accusations? Apparently it's OK to accuse someone of being a shill as long as they write in support of Rossi...

    Looks like Annesser, with his twisty interpretations, is your friend here! The Rossi case, which your idee fixe of worldwide anti-LENR conspiracy requires you to hold, rests on interpretations of the facts and speculation about evil motives. It is a push to make things fit it. Not that I claim to understand what is in other people's minds. You do this. You are convinced Darden's actions cannot be explained except to make him a criminal. That is a pretty confident reading of other's psychology. I realise your own study makes that of interest to you, but it is hubris and plain nasty to think you can establish criminality on so little evidence, just as it is prejudice to fit all facts into a supposed certain anti-LENR conspiracy.


    This post simply proves my point about your poor reading comprehension abilities. It is also clear evidence that are stuck in a Manichean worldview with respect to the issues and people involved in this case.

    I'm inclined to agree - after all we don't want a conversation from which Rossi supporters, due to intellectual deficits, are nearly all banned....


    Although I would consider myself a former Rossi supporter, in light of your consistent misunderstanding and misconstrual of my statements and arguments, I'd suggest you dismount from your high horse before you fall off.

    More documents added to the docket:


    276-05 is an interesting breakdown of IH's corporate structure and holdings spanning 2012-2014, just prior to Woodford's investment. Page 21 of 54 is a breakdown of investments until that point, showing that by 2014, they had invested $332,000 in "New Heat" which is the company they set up to own their investments in Brillouin. So basically this shows that by the end of 2014, they had invested #332,000 in Brillouin. Now we know what stake they have (or had as of a few years ago) in Brillouin.

    Where did you read this? That is not true as far as I know. He did not check the performance of the flow meter and he did not take possession of it.


    I never said he personally checked the performance of the flow meter. What I said was that he checked the total flowmeter amount every, say, 4 months, and compared that total to the sum of the daily totals that Rossi was giving him. Or in other words, he cross-checked the numbers. That is what I said. By 'taking posession' of it, I meant he took it from the Doral facility, and then sent it the company to check its performance and make sure it was properly re-calibrated/re-certified. I did not mean to intend that it then became his property. But in terms of 'chain of custody,' it was in his possession between the test and the (re-)certification.

    During the pseudo-GPT test they discovered without doubt that the reassuring Rossi/Levi COP=9 methodology gave COP=9 also on dummies. This would have been transformative of their views. Both Rossi, and much more significantly Levi, would have backed this flawed methodology. If they cannot trust Levi that is a big deal given his past involvement. This turned "we are very positive but not certain and know Rossi is unreliable" into "Rossi has been fooling us - we can't believe how stupid we have been". I'm uncertain here what was the strength of Darden's caution before this, so I'm not sure how surprised they were. But once they realised that Lugano-style tests could be so badly wrong that blew up both their earlier in-house results and the Lugano test and their confidence in Levi and therefore also (perhaps unfairly, given likely different error mechanisms, but they were done by Levi alone with Rossi) the Ferrara tests.


    THH, this is one of your most balanced and level-headed posts to date. Here I will just mention that your timeline is off: the positive result with the alleged dummy reactor happened before the Doral test. I agree it must have been transformative of their views, which makes it even hard for me to believe they went ahead with the Doral test, in addition to all the problems they recognized prior to the Doral test.


    and it is only in bizarro-land that a test which cannot be understood conducted by the inventor is viewed as positive evidence for an extraordinary and incredibly valuable new invention not otherwise validated.


    Agree. That's why I cannot wrap my head around IH agreeing to it.

    Why anyone would let the benefactor of $89 million take the water meter readings the money is ultimately based on is beyond me.


    You are repeating a canard that is one of the talking points designed to introduce UD to the debate (UD is the Uncertainty and Doubt part of the FUD acronym). Note I am not accusing you of doing so deliberately; merely pointing it out since so you will be aware that this is what you are doing.


    Yes it's true that Rossi took water readings. But ultimately Penon was able to cross-check the figures that Rossi was supplying against the total flow of the meter reading when he personally took possession of the meter at the end of the test. Plus, he made two site visits during the test (May and October) and checked the meter personally then in order to cross-check the data Rossi was feeding him. So, no, the overall COP calculation did not hinge on Rossi's measurements. Say what else you will about the test, and people have imagined all kinds of ways Rossi might have cheated the tests -- we don't need this canard. Can we please dispose of it?


    And while I'm disposing of UD canards here, I might as well slay another one: everybody keeps saying that the Doral operation was not a test; that it was set up according to the term sheet and not according to the contract; the term sheet is not a contract. And so Darden et al. had no reason whatsoever to think it was some kind of test. And while I agree with the fact that the term sheet is not the contract, this line of reasoning completely ignores Penon's involvement. The term sheet says nothing whatsoever about anybody testing the heat production of the 1MW plant. But the contract does. So the very fact that IH agreed to Penon's test and even paid for half his salary indicates they did consider this to be the "the test" according to the contract, not the term sheet. On top of that, according to the e-mails in the court documents that I've seen, IH representatives referred to Penon as "the ERV." The e-mails between Rossi and Darden about Penon also indicate that they agreed to let him to be the ERV. Again, you will find no "ERV" in the term sheet. And do you honestly think it was "just a coincidence" that Penon's test lasted for the same amount of time that was specified in the contract (not the term sheet).


    So if we once again try to cut through the fog, the issue here is very simple: Yes, IH did consider the Doral plant to be the test as outlined in the contract. I don't see how they can plausibly deny that. Of course they have to try to deny it, but their denials ring false, and I think the jury will see through them. The court case will really hinge around IH's argument that the test was bad and unreliable. And from what I've seen, I'd say they have the upper hand on that count.


    But the question I keep coming back to that I simply cannot fathom is this: it's clear from Darden's deposition that they knew the test was garbage before it even started, so why did they allow it to go forward? Why did they continue to pay Penon and Fabiani and West? Why did they bring investors around to see the plant multiple times? I know people have answers to this, but I have not found them satisfying in the least.


    THH says it's because early on they didn't know the customer was bogus, and so they were holding out hope that the COP would be validated through the customer's word. But they did at least know by that point that the customer they were dealing with directly was a shell company whose president was Rossi's lawyer (even if they allegedly thought it was actually fronting Johnson Matthey). So here we really need to ask ourselves how plausible it is to that Darden, this by all accounts savvy investor with decades of experience, would believe that, let alone gamble $89 million on that basis. It sounds far-fetched, to say the least. On top of that, according to the depositions, they were allegedly told that Johnson Matthey would step forward after 90 days if the results were positive. Yet we know they had investors coming around to visit the plant long after those 90 days had passed. I have heard no plausible explanation for that.


    This raises another question, and perhaps somebody has an answer: at what point did Darden et al. realize that JM was not connected to Johnson Matthey in any way? That it was just Rossi and his lawyer? Did they realize after 90 days had passed that Johnson Matthey was not involved? If not, when did this "aha" moment allegedly come?

    #joshg. If you will email me ... I will relate to you a particularly compelling example of how the "energy industry" reacts to potentially competitive new scientific breakthroughs.


    Mike, thank you for e-mailing me your story.


    Everyone else: Mike has a fascinating and quite relevant story to tell about his close-up eyewitness account and personal involvement with Gerald Schaflander's Consumer's Solar Electric Power Corporation. In the 1980s, Schaflander developed a cheap way of creating hydrogen-based fuel that could be used in easily modified gasoline engines. But he was crushed by allegations of fraud. Apparently, though, his invention was later validated. For anyone naive enough to think that energy interests couldn't care less about LENR at this stage and who are dismissive of so-called conspiracy theories, Mike offers an eye-opening tale. You can read his "not just another conspiracy theory" here at ECW.

    That is what we see here in this thread all the time.

    Yes, Rossi was at fault because of X , but IH also did Y.

    So they are equally to blame.


    As somebody who has sacrificed an outsized number of pixels on the altar of pointing out the illogic and inconsistencies in IH's position, I can say that you are drawing a false inference. Just because I point out IH's warts, does not mean I believe they are equally to blame in being defrauded by Rossi. The inference you draw does not follow naturally from the premises -- you are the one filling in that blank.

    This may boil down to semantics, because I think what you are more accurately observing is that Rossi has some unique 'technical' skills.


    Yes, I think that's right. I didn't mean to suggest that he is a great engineer in the proper sense (I have no expertise to judge). Only that he has a canny ability to figure out how to cheat the tests (or, for people who believe him, he has a canny way to design tests with loopholes). I called that "a particular set of engineering skills," but you could just as well call them technical skills.

    You are just falling into the "he must be the greatest, most talented con man in history because he has fooled me" fallacy.


    No, that's not true at all. Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension. Go back and read what I wrote. While what you say about other people finding his remarks about physics laughable might be true, it seems by all indications that the physicists I named do not or at least did not find his physics laughable. If anything, you could say that I am falling into the 'he must be the greatest, most talented con man in history because he fooled a handful of smart, talented physicists " fallacy. Though I did not say he is the greatest, most talented con man. The phrase I used was "unique with unusual talents." I should add that his apparent ability to constantly dream up new ways of faking excess heat also attests to very particular set of engineering skills.

    One soon detects who the shirkers are.


    If Rossi is a con artist, he is also exceptional, I think, in his ability to "talk shop" with physicists such as Focardi, Hoistad, Essen, Kullander and others with whom he has interacted with in person on an extended basis. According to Mats's book, the Swedish group was apparently quite impressed with him and his knowledge of physics. And Focardi worked with him, as well. I think that is one of the things that makes it difficult for some people to come to terms with the notion that he is just scamming people. I don't know that it makes it more or less likely, but it certainly seems to make him a unique con man with unusual talents.

    I honestly couldn't care less about your opinion of my credibility on this or any other issue.