Posts by Shane D.

Frank,

Mats Lewan said this today on his blog:

-I know that Tom Darden has recently met with people I personally know, not far away from me, claiming that the 1MW test was technically and fundamentally flawed and that COP was around 1, that there was no production in the customer’s factory, that the customer didn’t seem trustworthy to them, and that IH has not been able to replicate Rossi’s claims.

-I have strong indications that IH already before the lawsuit knew that Rossi had a working technology but again claimed that they didn’t know how he did it.

-At least one person with close connection to Darden, also financially, is contacting key persons around Rossi, trying to convince them that Rossi is a fraudster and that they would be wise to stop collaborating with him or at least be careful not supporting him in any way. The message also includes claims that IH through its investigation continuously discovers deceptive behaviour by Rossi.

Pretty damning comments wouldn't you say? COP1, Rossi's "customer" seemed "untrustworthy", the factory made, or produced nothing, therefore the results are not legitimate. Classic Rossi, if IH is right in what they say about the facility and customer. He does try to control, or influence all facets of the test. Why?

This wouldn't be his first time doing this either, as he did the same with the 26 Oct 2011 "Military Customer Acceptance Test", for which he even found some friend (still unidentified to this day) to pose as a "NATO Colonel" to "sign for delivery" after the test was deemed by him to be successful. Even though the 1MW plant was only run at 500kw, and...get this, Rossi had a 500kw generator hooked up to his container, and running the duration of the test!

Yes, this smells now the more I hear. Someone on ECW had a good idea: If Rossi wants to prove what he claims, he can let Lewan talk with this customer, and also allow Mats to meet his Leonardo employees, and visit this supposed research facility Rossi is using to further refine his Ecat-Quark. Easy enough to do, and makes perfect sense for Rossi. -if he were being honest, to set up. The customer could even remain anonymous.

But seriously; do you think Rossi would ever allow this? These type visits, or interviews, have been requested before, and always he says he will check into it, but never comes back with an answer. If pushed on the matter, he then resorts to the snakes and chatterers bit.

I say Rossi grant something like this, and if he won't agree, than we have our answer. He is a scammer.

I don't know where this is heading, who is right/who wrong, but I am leaning right now heavily against Rossi. It is hard to escape the fact that he popped up on the public scene 5 1/2 years ago, and still nothing. Out of boredom I took a look at his JONP in the winter and spring of 2012 (3 years ago). As now, back then he was talking of gearing up for the mass production, snakes and chatterers, happy customers which he could not name, but *maybe* he will soon allow some public visits. When there were too many probing questions about this supposed military customer, he introduced us to his Hotcat to divert attention away. Only thing that has changed is that today it is his Ecat-Quark. There seems to be a pattern!

Whatever ones beliefs at this time, one thing is for certain...Rossi is no saint. Nor is he a capable businessman. If he has something, he has royally mucked this up. No one could be more incompetent than he has been. Seriously. It is like PetrolDragon all over again (another pattern!). The guy is a bumbling boob. He makes a mess of everything!

6 years now and counting with nothing to show for it other than a messy lawsuit, the very same 1MW container he first built, and more empty promises of good things to come from his shadowy Leonardo. This is too much for me. If he had something, could anyone here explain to me why he didn't go to a reputable international company in 2010, and show them it worked? Why did he go to Darden?...yes, I know what he *said*, about their synergies and mutual goals...but look how that turned out. Or was it because he only likes working with other sharks...like him? No guilt, as they *deserve it*, when you rip them off...right? No sympathy from juries who love the "little guy", and hate the "professional investors" as Rossi calls Darden.

One really has to wonder at this point if supporting him on his JONP is good for LENR? Maybe it would be better if everyone shunned him, and stopped offering him their consolation, or at least start asking more tough questions? I have seen a few take him to task, but for the most part those who post give him cover for his selfish, incompetent and shameful behavior.

Seems to me he should be told to "put up, or shut up". Like I said, this has gone on unnecessarily long. We have other promising players like Brillouin, Piantelli, and Miley to rally around. We don't need Rossi anymore.

Gosh Jed, you need to spend more time here so we can catch you up on all the LENR gossip. We even stumble on the truth once in a while.

Quote from frankwtu

Shane

But we don't know what Industrial Heat believes, we only know what Jeb thinks they believe. And if you believe Tom??, then Tom believes, Jeb doesn't really believe what he says he believes because he 'rowed back'. Presumably now Jeb doesn't believe there is a second ERV just observers, I don't believe we can believe any of that, its beyond belief!!

Frank,

Today Jed seems to be saying his conclusions about IH are based on his reading of the same stuff we read; their response to the lawsuit and cryptic public statement, along with a whole lot of assumptions. That makes me wonder about his supposed relationship with IH. Maybe I misread him earlier, but I got the impression he was in touch with them NOW, and they told him the plant didn't work. It didn't produce heat. Test was a failure. Apparently though, he deduced that from the press release, along with other things.

Unless he clarifies this, I think I will go back to treating his comments as speculation, and no better sourced than ours.

Frank,

I agree. This is what I posted a little while ago that addresses that:

Quote from Shane D.

IMO, if Jed is going to be IH's pipeline to us, he might want to stop referring to Penon as an "certified idiot", and be careful with his legal opinions about the case. Unless, that is what his IH source is telling him, and he is just passing it on?

If those are solely his opinions, not IH's, then perhaps tone it down a bit? Reading the blogs today, some are finding it difficult to take him seriously when he says he has been talking with IH, after exaggerating these other things. I think they may have a point.

It would also be nice if Jed told us how close to IH's inner circle his source, or sources are, so that we can judge for ourselves the quality of what he is telling us? Maybe even clarify what he considers "talking with IH"?

Going forward we will no doubt be "fed" a lot of information as the suit progresses. We already have in fact, from Lewan's, Guest's, and now Rothwell's sources. We have to trust their info is legitimate, and the source well enough placed so that they are not merely passing on their own speculation, or purposeful misdirection. Otherwise we will all just be useful idiots fed a mix of truth and lies for whomever's purpose. Tools to be used. We don't want that.

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Quote from GoatGuy

Unfortunately, Rossi has never done the ONE simple thing that could have unambiguously demonstrated the output power of ANY of his devices.

Heat a pool of water.

Maybe the customer produced pools?...Hey you never know.

Quote from frankwtu

Eric, would it also be bad faith on the part of IH to have a 'second ERV' in addition to Penon without the knowledge of Rossi

Frank,

As already answered, the contract allows IH to have their representatives, or observers there. "Trust but verify" is the old Russian saying that is as much a necessity in politics, as it is in business, and applies here. I could not imagine IH, or anyone with this much money, and reputation, on the line, to have it any other way. Pile as many qualified observers in that control room as you can fit. Sounds from Rossi too, that they did in fact, do that.

And come on...would anyone here, in all honesty, no matter how much a believer, trust Rossi? Seriously, would you? I have followed Rossi since he first made a splash on the scene. I can easily fill two pages of "Rossisays", which in many cases are outright lies. Yes, everyone has to get over it...Rossi lies his arse off. It is simply undeniable.

His JONP comments are so contradictory; fuels, factories, customers, colonels, Ecat quarks that do everything! you name it, that try as they may, no one has been able to put all his comments (Rossisays) together in a sensible way...In 5 years! The reason is that he makes stuff up. No way when someone does that as often as he does, that you can make sense of it.

This is not to say he doesn't have something, as I for one have been arguing now for 3 years that he just might. But I haven't argued that against the likes of Joshua and Thomas, because I believe what Rossi tells me. I don't, and I haven't believed a word he said after he did the Oct 26th 2011 "customer acceptance test". It was laughable how cheesy and fake that whole production was. Then followed his steady progress reports of the 1MW plant container being at sea enroute to the customer, etc., only to see 5 months later the same container photographed in his brothers garage...having gone nowhere!

But I have argued for him nonetheless, based on others around him believing in him. The adults in the room. IH in particular, but some from Mats Lewan too, and lately Fulvio Fabiani. That is why I believe IH now, and not Rossi, until he proves otherwise. IH has never lied to me like Rossi has, so naturally in a "he said/he said", I am going to lean towards them.

IMO, if Jed is going to be IH's pipeline to us, he might want to stop referring to Penon as an "certified idiot", and be careful with his legal opinions about the case. Unless, that is what his IH source is telling him, and he is just passing it on?

If those are solely his opinions, not IH's, then perhaps tone it down a bit? Reading the blogs today, some are finding it difficult to take him seriously when he says he has been talking with IH, after exaggerating these other things. I think they may have a point.

It would also be nice if Jed told us how close to IH's inner circle his source, or sources are, so that we can judge for ourselves the quality of what he is telling us? Maybe even clarify what he considers "talking with IH"?

Going forward we will no doubt be "fed" a lot of information as the suit progresses. We already have in fact, from Lewan's, Guest's, and now Rothwell's sources. We have to trust their info is legitimate, and the source well enough placed so that they are not merely passing on their own speculation, or purposeful misdirection. Otherwise we will all just be useful idiots fed a mix of truth and lies for whomever's purpose. Tools to be used. We don't want that.

Great Axil, so how then does the wafer result in SSM, while the powdered fuel used by the mouse only produce COP1.2?

Not trying to be difficult, but this, in all honesty, doesn't make sense to me. Not only Rossi's spotty description of, but also the science.

Eric,

Good points as always, but if professional corruption is not the other option to professional incompetence, than what else do you propose?

The options seem fairly limited...No?

Fantastic!

Now what about those "fuel wafers"? You know what I mean.

Quote from hendersonmj

Binding arbitration: arrangement where two parties agree to present their arguments and evidence to a neutral third party and to be bound by the arbitrator's decision

Hendersonmj,

Arbitration in an $89 million case?...wishful thinking. Hypothetically speaking, if this is an outright scam, even if IH has absolute proof of that, they will offer Rossi a little more money to keep this out of the public limelight, so as not to tarnish the rest of their LENR portfolio

Rossi will gladly accept, still make a fuss about it for his fan base, and then slip away as is his history, to improve his tennis game, collect his rent on those 10 Miami condominiums he bought with IH's first installment 3 years ago, and think up a new scam.

All hypothetical as I said.

Jed sounds pretty adamant today that he is in communication with IH, and that they are telling him that their report, from their "observer", shows the Ecat does not work. I see no reason to distrust what Jed says. He is the LENR go-to guy, so it is logical for IH to use him as a conduit to us, thereby, the public.

That said, how in the world can there be a dispute between two parties, one claiming a COP50, and the other...well we don't know what Barry West is claiming, but I would assume COP1? We are not talking about a little difference of opinion, an honest misreading of some instruments...we are talking a huge, huge gap. I just can't account for that without resorting to professional corruption, or gross incompetence by one of the parties involved. IMO, someone will come out of this with a tarnished reputation. That simple.

We have just got to see these reports. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Rossi is claiming his lawyer won't let him release Penon's ERV report, which as Jed claims, may not be a legally valid excuse. I'm not positive about that, as playing amateur lawyer is not my forte, but nonetheless:

The onus now is on Rossi to prove his case as far as I am concerned. The only way for him to do that at this point, is to produce the report ASAP, or even sooner!, or as far as I am concerned he is a scammer, as the skeps have said all along.

Even though he seems to skipping around on his story a bit, what Jed is saying is plausible, but then again, so many other scenarios, as supported by their sources, are also. I can see IH considering their man on the scene (Barry West) as the equivalent of an ERV. He also worked alongside Fabio Fulviano, who really doesn't have the qualifications for the role. Rossisays West was there with him every day, and the guy never said anything bad -to him. Wouldn't take long I would think for anyone in that situation to realize you don't tell him (Rossi) anything bad about his 1MW baby...as many others in Rossi's colorful history could attest.

While I don't necessarily partake in speculation, sometimes to get a lot of "likes", you just have to ,so here goes: Like I said, Fulvio was there also with West on behalf of IH...or at least he was until this past summer. I say that because Fulvio allowed Mats Lewan to interview him this fall. Doubtful IH would allow the interview in the first place were he still on payroll (they are very secretive and tight lipped). Especially so in that Fulvio praised Rossi, and used the interview to herald the coming a new energy era. Not IH's story line.

So possibly there is a split opinion between West and Fulvio. Maybe Fulvio even lost his job because of that?

Another thing for Jed; if you are so sure of your sources, why not pull out of Lewan's seminar now? On the chance Lewan decides to continue on with it, seems it would be a waste of your time now. Especially after some of what you said about Rossi, and Rossi will be there!

Quote from Thomas Clarke

Yay - will they pay me? Where do I get their details...

Probably not...they require you pass a spelling test.

Josh,

Seems you are hung up on wealth. I am not. That skews your thinking and unfetters mine. Therefore, I think I am right in this case. And I don't get the impression Darden is hung up on money either.

And if he thinks Rossi is being recalcitrant, and not willing to release his secrets to them (IH), therefore the world as they intend to do, then Darden's mission to help the world is a failure.

That is why he is against Rossi, twisting his arm so to speak, at this point. Not to make more money.

Quote from joshua cude

If he believed it worked, there is no way he would get himself into a battle like this, risking being shut out of a trillion dollar enterprise.

Darden is rich enough already. He is altruistic at this point in his life. Wants to help the world, and have a place in history. Establish his legacy. Rossi may be onto something, but according to the credible rumors surfacing, that are sourced by a friend of a friend, and sometimes another friend , back to IH, he (Rossi) hasn't turned over ALL the goods. Doesn't want Rossi's secrets to go to the grave. Been uncooperative, and until he does, they can easily make a legal case against him and his "fanciful delusions". Piece of cake...why even I could do that.

Edit: Added a line.

Quote from joshua cude

You are grasping at straws to suggest IH's statement is equivocal. They have tried to substantiate the validity of Rossi's ecat claims and failed.

Joshua,

Darden is a lawyer. As we found out with the word *is* 18 years ago, lawyers intone more meaning in to words, than the dictionary defines. *Substantiate* is a much longer word than "is".

This is what I believe Darden mean't to convey by using the 12 letter word "substantiate" in his statement: "Rossi, you little bastard, turn over all the damn secrets, or you aren't going to get your $89 million!". Exclamation point is my artistic addition.

Quote from Thomas Clarke

They must be pretty good then when I rarely post!

Just the way I like my steak Tom, good and rare. Can't wait!

Quote from joshua cude

I think I missed where IH claimed LENR is real.

What I mean't though was Darden *acts* like he believes LENR. OK, you got me on that one. I went and read through his interviews and he makes lot's of allusions to his believing it real, but without outright saying that. Like claiming what a great orgasm he had, but refusing to admit he had sex.