This is a great initiative. Its needed and could be really productive. It’s great there is a work place for serious theorists.
I’m really Looking forward now to seeing what they/you all come up with in time.
I’m afraid I have had a bit of a brain storm about the spectrum presented in Slobodan Stankovic’s presentation.
Has anyone here taken a look. I’m curious why we only see the p3 to s3 emission line for Sodium and p4 to s4 for Potassium but none of the other Principle or other recombination lines normally apparent in this Spectral range.
Is there a normal explanation for this?
I’m curious what ionizes the Sodium and Potassium to allow these emission lines once present if it was deposited rather than produced.
Also Why we don’t see any lines from Magnesium, Silicon and Calcium? Given that it is apparently present in the SEM.
I’m also curious what is the origin of the molecular Raman spectrum like broad spectrum.
Does anyone here have answers?
Wyttenbach may I ask... have you looked at the scalar meson resonances such as the f0(500), f0(980) resonance with regard your SO(4) theory approach or are these kinds of resonances currently out side the scope of that approach for now?
When I consider these things this way I realize how big the job can be. But if it’s relevant to the processes associated with LENR it could be interesting.
I’m not sure if this is the right place to post it but this paper might be if interest to sveinol and Leif Holmlid.
I’m not an expert on these things but the decay paths and line widths are interesting I think.
I suppose they are aware of it.
Do we know how much energy was consumed in the endothermic events
I’m pretty sure you have considered this but I’m wondering if Hydrogen desorption from one of the metals could account it.
Or alternatively adiabatic expansion and cooling of the contained gas due to depressurization?
For example if the original heating effect dies out when all the atomic hydrogen is converted to H2. Does it only readsorb the Hydrogen in the palladium when the temperature/ pressure is right there may then be heat of absorption of H2 in the palladium but could there also be cooling due to adiabatic expansion of the remaining gas?
Or is the endothermic energy involved larger than we would expect from this?
I know this is obvious to most here... but just pondering it:
The heat of adsorption of this amount of hydrogen on nickel seems to me to be a two or three orders of magnitude less than could explain the heat generated.
Do we know how many mols of gas was included? (I was estimating about 0.000185 mol)
It’s interesting the profile seems to indicate that sorbtion plays some role though.
Just thought it was interesting to mention.
Edit. If the gas is being breathed by the metal. Or acting like a bi metallic heat pump then it would take something like 1000 full adsorption cycles with no equivalent cooling due to desorption to account for this excess heat. Desorption with out equivalent heat loss in this case would normally be a hard to explain process.
Do we know if he used meshes prepared by Mizuno? Or prepared by himself?
I wonder if there are lessons learnt about what steps might have differed from the preparation by others which were less successful so far. Was the out gassing preparation phase more thorough for example.
Anyway it’s great to hear we are starting to get interesting results. Thanks to Jed for updating us with this good news.
After all this you could be satellite engineers.
I think for satellites it can take some weeks to out gas at least a number of days. And this can be critical for some instrumentation.
But I suppose it depends what materials are present.
I would definitely agree Mizuno’s equipment is the best option at this time.
It seems resonant to me that the opportunity to test this comes up just at the tine we have the details of the set up for a test released from Mizuno.
We also have the ideal interface with Jed. His contact with Mizuno, his long history in LENR and his ability to speak Japanese. It’s a really good opportunity that just opens at this time. A perfect match you might say. Maybe too good to miss.
I would like to see Mizuno’s method verified. (We should bare in mind it might not be easy to do right off the bat but certainly worth pursuing)
It maybe the work and approach with this could establish trust between the team and the community about aims, motives which would be fair I think.
The need to verify the technology out weighs many things in my opinion. Not for business opportunity or positive belief or skeptical proof reasons. But simply because if there is any chance for a positive result the world could really be helped by it. For that in these times, we should never stop searching.
I would also like to see:
Holmlid work verified (I suppose this might be difficult but I wonder if Zeiner’s work with one of Mizuno’s prototype’s can give an opening there?)
Russ and Alan’s work verified when ready. (But I wonder if he is already getting verification by other groups?)
Mizuno’s work looks like the best first opportunity but I wonder if it is also worth making a priority list of follow ups including others?
To get in the frame. I would suggest they see a working prototype before starting. I wonder if that would be possible.
I would also suggest verification of other potential LENR related aspects than just thermal. Perhaps different particle measurement methods, radiation and apparent transmutations, isotopic ratio changes of fuel, presence of helium and other gases, magnetic fields and charges etc. but I suppose thermal must still be the highest priority.
Just to clarify was the woodpecker previously operated in the room where the Gieger is currently being measured?
Or was that also in a different room?
It would be interesting to check with another unused Geiger in the same location to check if active agents or some other effect on the Geiger itself are stimulated by the static or something. if Radon then both should be affected.
Also maybe to check with the same tests in a different location in the near locality but distant from the current air flow. I suppose Radon progeny should be similar in both locations... but if something else is the cause such as other nano particles or activated constructs then it might be just local to the original test environment.
This has been really interesting.
It’s also kind of ironic that high static may be linked to LENR in some ways and perhaps plays a role at producing particles that may decay or activate it may also result in collecting Radon Daughters collecting on the equipment some how.
Which ever it is it’s good this process is being done and people like Can are looking and checking.
Although Radon looks like a likely cause in such cases I get the impression we are curious if this or other potential sources are the cause. I wish Can could get hold of a spectrometer but if not I wonder if there is a way to verify this with out a spectrometer.
Would putting the equipment inside a grounded or insulated help?
It does seem similar to muon type signatures In Holmlids experiments.
I wouldn’t want to touch too much a working device before it’s well characterized. Still lots to do there I guess.
But I do wonder if distance increases or decreases the signal or if it shows 1/r^2 decay.
I wonder if Replacing the foil in paper with some unused writable cd discs would show something akin to what Bob is searching for.
Also curious if just copper, zinc or Nickel shows similar sustaining behavior or if it requires the mixture. I suppose that’s something for later.
It’s been fascinating seeing the progress of this test here
I wouldn’t want to over load suggestions and I’m sure there are many good candidates.
But on a Technical level I would really like to hear:
An interview with Wyttenbach about SO (4) theory. I find his approach really fascinating.
An interview with Bob Greenyer about strange radiation tracks on surfaces materials. He has found and collated some really interesting information and data there. It’s getting pretty hard to ignore what he is finding in his current OHMA project.
Ruby is One if the stars of LENR.
Just made a donation. I’m really intrigued what she will come up with.
I wonder if as part of her interview archive if it would interesting to interview some of the others that have supported LENR in the none technical but also important areas such as publications and media. I’m
thinking Frank Acland , Jed Rothwell, Peter Gluck, the administrators of the LENR Forum, Amongst others. It would be fascinating hearing their history what first got them interested in LENR what motivated them to start their work and sites and their most interesting insights in the many years they have done this work.
robert bryant thanks if for those links.
Both links are interesting
Dr Dimiter Alexandrov’s work looks really intriguing. It’s in close resonance with some other ideas around i really feel there is convergence happening.
It’s interesting that He3 He4 increased with heating...
I think he proposes a heavy electron + deutron or proton generating slow neutrons
I wonder though if this occurs during the process if merger if these dense Hydrogen constructs themselves rather than spontaneously externally to that process perhaps reconciling the balance of states in the process allows this with out radiation... although I’m not sure how you would do with out a neutrino. Unless that’s somehow reconciled by its initially multi body aspect.
It’s interesting that it requires external heating. Normal fusion of light elements is of course exothermic. But here we have two processes an endothermic aspect of generating a neutron at the same time as merging the nuclei. So it’s not typical fusion or even exothermic neutron capture but something a bit more exotic. The net energy could be endothermic.
It would be interesting to understand what the implications are at net entropy level. Is a heavier more stable nuclei generated in this process more entropically favorable than input heat?
Also if the input heat is a direct thermal effect or indirect such as increasing pressure.
Of course we are only speculating with limited data but this kind of experiment could provide that data to support this or other explanations.... if well studied and supported. The field needs that level of support with out prejudice stigma or phobia in order to clarify what we see or not.
I do think it would be fascinating if we found different He3 to He4 ratios in LENR experiments than we expected naturally. Actually any He3 production with no associated Tritium, or Lithium for example. It would be interesting. It would imply another source maybe. We could speculate wildly what that might be... condensed matter... compound nuclei of another process involving their assimilation in nuclei. But perhaps the signature might give sue clues towards a mechanism. Eg He3 like Spectrum but not quite (due to slight differences in reduced mass)... etc.
Since it is a light element it should be able to be measured from its optical spectrum.
I see models as much like tinted glasses they highlight some aspects and hide others. But In doing so give us useful information we would not otherwise be aware of so long as we don’t assume they explain the whole reality and In doing so add complexity to try and fit actual reality. For me this is OK and can be useful.
Once in a while something different comes along a pair of glasses that instead of tints brings things inti new and clear focus. Typically these are Eureka moments or E=mc^2 moments usually distinguished by their simple elegance once understood. And usually considering things in a new and elegant space.
I think Wyttenbach is on the track if one moments. Other not fully correct models are still incredibly useful though and give useful insight when applied in the scope they were originally conceived and sometimes beyond that.
There’s a whole parallel thread to the LENR story going all the way back to the 90’s to now that I somehow missed or at least didn’t fully grasp. It does put some things in to context. There is a lot of hurt and sadness perhaps on all sides from the very beginning to now.
The best all round is for LENR to be shown. And contributors recognized.
JedRothwell Ahh I see. There is some complicated history there. I’m sorry to see that Jed. and for Gene too. I maybe naïf but I do wish disputes were resolved more simply with respect that each side is human with all the feelings and pressure, failings and complex thoughts that that entails. It’s always a shame when it gets out of hand. I try to stay technology focused but it’s sad that thing go like that from time to time.
This story though triggered me to look back in history in these blogs and it’s amazing. I’ve just realized though how far back some ideas we discuss now go and how much they were discussed in these forums. It amazes me that they become increasingly relevant in these days.
I hope some day everyone gets past differences even though that’s hard and focuses on just how truely amazing the technology history is.
Perhaps that diversity of sources and it’s complexity is all part of its story perhaps in a way all though painful for some it’s part of what gets us here today.