Posts by StephenC

axil Regarding the use of a Quadrupole.... Exactly....! It's this part that captured my eyes when I read it and made me think there may well be something in it. Then when started at this point and read through the rest I could see how they were trying to walk the reader through their ideas. There may be broader need for the test data of the QuarkX itself but to me the theoretical discussion was very intelligent despite what some others think. But I suppose you need to understand the significance of that point you raise here first.

Regarding the initial heating are you sure the active part of the QuarkX was initially heated to 2000 deg C? I missed it in this paper? I'm sure the Hot Cat could well have been but I wonder if the QuarkX used some other kind of stimulation?

Edit: Sorry BTE-Dan for getting a bit of Topic there... I jumped in with out reading the whole thread. Good luck with your test. It's really good to see yet another experimenter/replicator trying this.

Good luck with the test Bob and thanks to Can for these great inputs. I think we are learning a lot from this robust methodical approach in your testing. This approach is exactly what is needed.

May I ask if your fuel mixture is densely packed or loosely packed and if you see there is any advantage an ond of these approaches?

I'm enjoying following these tests, seeing the growth in real reliable data and better understanding and am looking forward the developments in this and future tests.

Stephen.

This looks really well run experiment thanks for that Bob. It's really good to see this.

Great collaboration with Can too. The graphs are perfect.

If anything shows up with here it will be really clear and I would have good confidence in it.

When nothing shows up it's a great benchmark for the future too.

Good luck with this and your future iterations of the experiment.

I would say a few things about this exchange:

1. It's a strange thing to ask for urgently if he didn't need it.

2. It's clearly stated it's for the JMP plant.

3. The JMP plant device is clearly separate from IH licensed IP and he wants to keep it that way.

4. It's in November 2015 which I think is about the time they said they had some problems with the JMP plant and needed less supplied thermal heat from the e-cat. Its also about the time of the supplied electrical power "anomaly".

5. It seems he is convinced it works with steel and has a very clear idea what kind of component he wants and what it looks like. But it is not readily available.

6. I am speculating here but to me it looks like a failed or upgraded part in the JMP plant that urgently needed replacing.

This gives me the clear impression a) there was a device at JMP that was doing something that needed repairing. b) whatever that device was it is as intriguing as the ECat.

Wow the night of a thousand cuts! It's like seeing a ninja in a Turkey Koop the night before Thanksgiving.

Well it's like a witch hunt or maybe pack of hounds in a fox hunt some times here too. I've always detested mob justice. History has shown it's always ugly and usually wrong.

Division needs a crisis of some kind to be created and to build up to wars and conflicts and usually serves one small group of peoples interest but it takes effort to sustain as people are naturally more diverse more intelligent and more interesting. division can't be sustained for ever and time is the true arbitrator what is said here and now means very little. In time real science will reveal it self for what it is or not and what we reflect on when it does will inform us better about what is really happening these days.

In time the purpose of the division and what it is hiding will be clear as day to everyone who cares to look. As I say usually it's ugly.

Personally I respect someone who seeks true justice in a court much more than some one who seeks division and hate in a forum to make his so called "justice".

Peter Gluck I'm not posting much at the moment but I just wanted to say I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments in your post above.

In addition Regarding your 1992 ideas the more I understand about the possible process the more I'm also coming round to think that the dynamics on the surface are particularly significant too. I think your right.

Paradigmnoia Ahh i took so long to write me post I see you already answered...! ! Yup that one... looks like the pipe I thought might be the chimney was there in 2007 so that question is answered.

Edit: I see the unit I originally saw with the additional heat exchanger on the roof at the back and barrels outside is a couple of units down from 7861. I think the picture from Wyttenbach may be the next one down from that. And the 7861 is off the top of the original Paradigmnoia roof picture. But his latest pictures have it correctly identified.

Edit: for clarity and to save confusion In the post below I was referring to Paradigmnoia original post and picture. Not the one above which already already clarifies the issue.

Paradigmnoia  Wyttenbach . I'm avoiding contributing to the debate here as for me it's for the court too decide. I have my own bias and opinions and I can feel quite strongly about them too and hope real justice is served to who ever deserve it but I'm not really into trying to convince people to my point of view and as a non court member I still try to hold out hope it comes down to process rather than deliberate miss behavior on either side. For me diverse opinions are more interesting in debate than two battling giants. But I must admit I'm irresistibly drawn to some of the debate and especially the data. In this situation of controversy it's important to be sure we are looking at the right data though.

With reference to Paradigmnoia picture of the roofs are we sure we are choosing the right one?

I don't think it's the middle one in the picture as it is to the right of the front doors so it could be the one mentioned Wyttenbach which I think is below this.

On the otherhand it looks to me the second one from the top could be the one. This one is interesting as it has what looks like a normal sized additional air conditioning unit on the near back of the warehouse and what looks like a small chimney in the middle towards the end that to me could line up with the pipe going to the roof by the door seen in one of the pictures from inside the warehouse.

More interesting are what look like barrels at the back of this warehouse. If it is the right one i wonder what they contain?

Regarding circulating heat from the customer plant to an external cooler (by the window). I'd be very surprised if it is steam as that would be wasted useful heat. given the return temperatures of the condensate from the external plant to the ECat more likely to me this customers cooling circuit is also circulating liquid at 60 deg. Or if greater amounts of energy are to be removed at this lower Temperature a fluid that has a lower phase change temperature such as ethanol or something similar. Just a thought based on the return temperature data. It could be wrong of course.

Any way if you can confirm which warehouse in Paradigmnoia picture is the right one I'm curious.

Zephir_AWT Well I guess we need to consider that LENR fits into the picture some how. The question would be does this LENR just stimulate the heat? Or does it stimulate the plasma perhaps by stimulating proton or ion release? or does it some how enhance the voltage difference between the electrodes?

AlainCo. Interesting and Good points. You know I think where people see "conspiracy" it's quite rare that's it's really about money and organized behaviors far more often it comes down to a group with one of these views of consensus especially one of the last two groups. When consensus forms on the other side the result can be two polarized groups that see conspiracy on each other side and entrench themselves in fortresses of opposing views.

It's a shame as I think people are mostly much more diverse and interesting.

Well for sure it's not easy when considering the overall connsevation of energy and entropy considerations into account.

Well it's a very long shot I guess but I'm trying to think of possible endothermic processes that would not need material moved in and out.

Adsorbtion in metal Hydrides is normally exothermic and desorption is normally equally endothermic.

I was wondering if this balance could be modified by using other ways to add or remove hydrogen with out normal proces. I previously wondered about using ionization or desorption of excited hydrogen with less endothermic energy from the MH without desorption to recycle the hydrogen and heat the metal hydride.

Converly I wondering if ions can be pushed into the metal hydride non thermally with reduced beating effect and then normally desorbed to cool the MH. And again recycle the hydrogen.

Obviously the energy needed would need to come from somewhere but perhaps it could be a non thermal source so cooling could still occur.

Probably there are plenty of flaws in this thinking though.

A question. Can platinum sponge be made absorb hydrogen ions with less released exothermic energy than occurs with normal hydrogen adsorption?

Wow that is some list of patents.

I have two big thoughts:

1. Could some of them relate to the processes used by JMP?

2. What is the "White Dwarf derived pressure system combined with Casmir effect and Van der Waals forces" ?... This has to be one of the most intriguing patent applications titles I have ever heard of!

@THEDEBATEISUSELESS I have the same feeling although I'm not sure it's the whole secret... I get the feeling some relatively simple underlying well understood but sometimes forgotten properties of hydrogenated metals are part of the "secret" too. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I'm not sure if it is related but I'm quite curious about what happens to the helium produced in LENR reactions. I suppose in Wet type LENR with Deuterium fuel the helium is out gassed . In sealed systems such as LENR+ using lithium im curious how the helium is processed. I suppose similar amounts of Helium would be produced as the original amounts of Hydrogen or Lithium. If this remained in the system as a gas I suppose it would reach quite high pressures.

I wonder if the helium would also be absorbed in to the metals? There are some interesting papers on Metal Titrates with helium in particular how the helium can nucleate in to clusters and form pockets in the metal. This in itself could be quite Interesting if those clusters can produce the Coulomb explosion effects mentioned by Axil. Could this be related to Papps engine in some way?

On the other hand could these pockets formed in side the metal be sites where hydrogen could collect and adsorb on internal surfaces in the metal.

Another interesting thing is Helium Ions are sometimes used to etch the surface of Nickel gold and other metals to make plasmonic black metals that absorb most of the incident optical Light or have particular polarization attributes.

I don't know if any of these effects are relevant but they seem interesting.

magicsound

Thanks for your replies to my earlier questions. It's interesting the point about dissociation of H2. As I understand from other papers that hydrogenisation of most metals is exothermic where as desorption is endothermic. And the H2 dissociation takes place on the surface. I wonder now if the thermal energies they mention take into account your point.

The H2 dissociation to H+ and H- is also an interesting point. Especially if these ions are particularly relevant for some reasons.

Any way I suppose the thermodynamic energies involved in this process would require larger amounts of fuel than in the glow stick experiments to be noticeable.

I'm quite curious if we can see if the hydrogen released from the Nickel is energized or even ionized. If so does it occur continuously or only during desorption? If so this kind of information might give us some understanding of the processes involved.

I suppose the Glowstick it self is not transparent to UV? I wonder if some kind of high temperature UV sensor probe could be included with the pressure sensor probe at least during the periods it's in the operable temperature range?

magicsound thanks for that it's very interesting.

I guess it's likely the thermal signature from adsorption/desorption might be too small the detect in this case.

Typically the van der Waals force is less than 50 kJ per mole with exact values depending on the type of material or nano crystal type.

http://w0.rz-berlin.mpg.de/imp…kwitz_Mi_9-11_KChrist.pdf

I think for Nickel (100) single crystal face It can be about 48 kJ per mole.

Hydrogen is close to about 1g per mole

So even if 0.0005g of hydrogen was adsorbed:

0.0005g of atomic hydrogen is close to 0.0005 moles which corresponds to about 24 J of energy released during adsorption or consumed during desorption.

I think over the duration of the adsorption/desorption (several hours I think) this would correspond to a very low wattage and small effect compared to the heating power. Perhaps at periods of high adsorbtion/desorption rate the thermal effect might be slightly higher than during the over all duration. I guess it would still be very low compared to the heater power.

Interesting though.

BobHiggins. In the MFMP glow stick experiments we observed changes Hydrogen pressure that we considered were due to sorption on the hydrogen on the Nickel especially during the hydrogen loading process. Do we know from the changes in pressure and the amount of LAH and Nickel present in the fuel if amount of Hydrogen absorbed is consistent with normal adsorption or was more apparently adsorbed by this process?

Also I'm curious if during the cycling phase if we saw endothermic cooling during the desorption of the hydrogen? Or not?

The following is an old paper about hydrogen excitation and anomalous heat in palladium but I think you may find it interesting and strangely relevant.

http://www.academia.edu/110066…cies_using_metal_hydrides

I wonder if the beta phase of the metal hydride is sufficienty saturated with atomic hydrogen that it becomes some what constrained in the lattice.

If so could the constrained hydrogen atoms effectively resonate with each other as a result of ionization and excitations / de excitation. And perhaps even be sustained like a tuning fork to some extent under these conditions? I suppose the energies of photon emissions and absorption for the hydrogen atoms under this constraint would be well matched.

Is there something about this excitation of hydrogen that allows additional hydrogen absorption? Or is proton release and acceleration from the surface occurring as a result of this excitation?

It seems to me most of the different kinds of stimuli in LENR devices are there to excite or ionize the hydrogen. Could the LENR itself in what ever form it takes also stimulate this kind of hydrogen excitation and ionization?

If so perhaps the thermal effect is just from exothermic adsorption of the hydrogen with associated excited hydrogen release or proton release from the surface due to ionization with out normal desorption in the case of protons or with reduced endothermic effect of desorption in the case excited hydrogen.

Interestingly I have seen this excitation of hydrogen on metal Hydrides called "Activation" here and other papers. It seems to me where activation is mentioned it refers to this excitation of the sorbed Hydrogen and not just the hydrogen loading.

If 2 protons are a few angstroms apart I wonder what kind of acceleration and final velocities they will achieve at the surface. And what kinds of pressures would result in the bulk.

Edit: I think excited hydrogen and recombinations after proton release could explain a lot if fusor like glow is present:

As well as the potential electrical current generation from a circuit including the released protons, particle lift if the protons/ions are released with higher energy from the surface and of course the line of sight Li7 interaction in LENR plus.

Edit: Interestingly according to this paper the Al2O3 seems to conserve atomic hydrogen and H+ ions across its surface. Could this be a reason for including Aluminum?

Edit: if hydrogen spectral line emission resonance occurs would surrounding the device in optical and UV reflective material such as aluminium, silver or gold or perhaps some higher temperature metal or alloy with high UV reflectivity enhance the effect?

Edit if the MetalHydride is an anode emmitting protons and H+ ions due to ionizing radiation and the reflector is also a cathode could this explain how electricity is produced?