Stability of carbon with atomic hydrogen?

  • This isn't strictly a LENR-related discussion. You might have read that Rossi now apparently uses graphene in his QuarkX. Whether true or not, I somehow suspected that in an atmosphere of hot atomic hydrogen, which would be quite reactive, this would lead to the formation of various hydrocarbons (CH4, C2H2, etc), so I started researching the subject. According to some sources (not many so far) while this is definitely the case at low to medium temperatures (at least with graphite) it seems that above roughly 1000-1200°K hydrocarbon formation is strongly slowed or inhibited.



    Some sources:

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/s…22311582903026?via%3Dihub

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/j100725a028

    http://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.431559


    So my question is: does anybody have information or other sources contradicting what I seem to understand here?

  • Quote

    You might have read that Rossi now apparently uses graphene in his QuarkX.



    Rossi definitelly doesn't utilize graphene, but common graphite. And he doesn't utilize it for thermoelectric, rather than for collecting charge (electrons) from Quark-X reactor (remember the blue glow?). So he utilizes graphite shield around reactor and graphite isn't in direct contact with hydrogen atmosphere there.

  • I have other reasons for thinking that it could be used inside, not necessarily focusing on Rossi's case. The question wasn't really about him, but more about how the material behaves in general in a hydrogen atmosphere - possibly in atomic form - at high temperature.

    Edited once, last by can ().

  • http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A…njIREMcTkAwM&cuid=2168707


    Graphene is treated with hydrogen so that flaws in its regular structure is produced. This process is called distressed graphene. Magnetic fields are induced by those flaws that are strong enough to capture muons for long enough for them to decay into electrons.


    nl-2011-02866q_0006.gif


    Quote

    Here, we present the first muon spectroscopy investigation of graphene, focused on chemically produced, gram-scale samples, appropriate to the large muon penetration depth. We have observed an evident muon spin precession, usually the fingerprint of magnetic order, but here demonstrated to originate from muon–hydrogen nuclear dipolar interactions. This is attributed to the formation of CHMu (analogous to CH2) groups, stable up to 1250 K where the signal still persists. The relatively large signal amplitude demonstrates an extraordinary hydrogen capture cross section of CH units. These results also rule out the formation of ferromagnetic or antiferromagnetic order in chemically synthesized graphene samples.

  • By the way, one of the reasons why I asked this question is that apparently when metals are supported on high surface area carbon like activated carbon (usually deposited from a metal salt solution) hydrogen uptake can exceed that of the carbon support and the metal by several times in a sort of synergistic effect. This is apparently due to hydrogen atoms migrating easily on the carbon support and it's known in the literature as hydrogen spillover - although the actual mechanism is disputed as far as I know (example). As the effect occurs with atomic hydrogen dissociated at the metal sites and activated carbon can withstand rather high temperatures at least in inert atmospheres without significantly getting altered, I thought it could have some uses in typical "dry" LENR experiments. There doesn't seem to be much information available on the high temperature exposure to hydrogen of so-prepared catalysts however.


    http://www.iaea.org/inis/colle…ublic/37/064/37064827.pdf

    http://www.spq.pt/magazines/RPQ/290/article/896/pdf

    etc.

    Edited once, last by can ().

    • Official Post

    0I found the first paper you linked very interesting, since Pb and Pd are such close cousins, and we are seeing strange effects in Pb doped Carbon. I need to spend a bit more time reading. fixing a balky data logger right now....:(

  • Check the periodic table. Pb,Pd are in the same column. And we are sure that some lead at least will get plated onto the carbon grains


    Alan Smith : There is some magic about Pb. It's the last stable element of the periodic table. (Bismuth decays, but very slowly..) Thus any LENR with Pb will produce unawanted output, except if Pb acts as a charge/mass donor or catalyst. I wouln't much gamble around.., without reliable gigers, neutron detectors etc..

  • From some of the very recently released documents from Rossi-IH's case (e.g. 207-02 and 207-14) Rossi claims that at some point he moved from platinum sponge-based catalyst onto a graphene-based catalyst, so the underlying idea of this thread might have not been totally off track.


    Interestingly, from a long list of unpublished patent applications (presumably from Rossi's IP package) featured in document 207-29 one called "Nickel graphite catalizer" appears to exist.

  • I think it tries to cover Piantelli's whiskers, which work pretty well for cold fusion like the nanobottles or nanopipes stuffed with hydrogen. But once they recrystallize, their magic is over - well, and the carbon/graphite layers just prohibits it.

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