Posts by Ecco

Continuing my exploration on the plausibility of Rydberg Matter Hydrogen and Ultra-dense hydrogen as a possible explanation for most observations in the LENR field, today I found out (a bit late, admittedly) that Edmund Storms regards the Hydroton, a hypothetical hydrogen molecule generated by nano-cracks (or NAE) and responsible for excess heat and fusion products, as having the characteristics of metallic Hydrogen. Remarkably, this would make it similar to the ultra-dense hydrogen observed and studied by Holmlid and colleagues for years.

Besides his book (which I don't have), it looks like there is more on his Hydroton concept on a few papers on LENR-CANR.org:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEexplaining.pdf
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEresponseto.pdf

And briefly mentioned here at minute 13:24 (I haven't had the time yet to listen to the entire interview):

Transcription of the relevant portion:

Quote

Hydrogen has a very limited possible electronic interaction, meaning there's only one electron involved with each nucleus. So, the number of energy states is very very limited and Hydrogen is one of the more well-known electron states. If I were going to form a particular structure that had the capability that I proposed the Hydroton has, I almost have to accept the same electron state that would be creating metallic Hydrogen. So there's a natural relationship between the two. On the one hand, people have proposed that metallic Hydrogen can initiate a nuclear reaction; I'm saying that I create something that has the characteristics to do precisely that within cracks and so, therefore that it has the characteristics of metallic Hydrogen.

There was a peak of 49 during calibration.

@David Fojt: or one could use a specialized Zr-Al getter with a dedicated heater somewhere in the reactor tube:
https://www.saesgetters.com/sites/default/files/St 101 Brochure_2.pdf (detailed explanation and usage instructions)

However, this would make using a vacuum pump to purge the initial gases and activate the getter pretty much mandatory.

@me356: this might sound a bit wild (so regard it as a possible idea to explore in the future), but speaking of "tube" reactors perhaps you could attempt designing some sort of resonating thermoacoustic device? That way, pressure changes wouldn't be very large, but they would be very frequent and continuously occurring. The sound pressure in well designed systems can exceed 0.1 bar. Of course, some challenges especially with tuning and pressure sealing would await.

Example:

Which reminds me a bit of:

(source )

Since this has sort of become my personal speculation thread on the implications of Rossi's 2009 analysis and Rydberg Matter Hydrogen, I'm adding some more thoughts.

I changed my mind on one aspect of Leif Holmlid's research. I previously said that him stating that his reaction isn't LENR, but that aspects of LENR experiments might be related with it could have been a way for him to distance himself from cold fusion experiments. That might be true in a way, but if one sees what actually happens in his experiments under a different light, it could be exactly as he's saying.

If the production of denser forms of hydrogen through catalytic reactions at the nano-scale is true, then most of Holmlid's observations are a direct result of their properties. Even though in his case nuclear fusion is observed to occur - spontaneously too - at room temperature or near-room temperature, it is not “cold” fusion in that conditions for “hot” fusion such as density (>130 Kg/cm3 for ultra-dense Deuterium) are already partially fulfilled (also check out on wikipedia what ICF - inertial confinement fusion - is about).

So if LENR experiments are mostly about the production of Rydberg Matter Hydrogen - dense or metallic Hydrogen in Holmlid's words - and its even denser states, it might as well be that LENR have been some sort of optimized hot fusion all along, and that new physics and novel nuclear processes wouldn't be required to explain most observations. However, this would also imply that existing natural phenomena could be explained in different ways than previously assumed.

EDIT
Before somebody else points it out, Holmlid explains the lack of neutrons this way (excerpt from the previously linked paper):

Quote

It is expected that neutrons will be ejected from a nuclear fusion process. However, only relatively small but significant fluxes of neutrons have been detected in experiments using laser-induction. The most important factor is the large density of D(0), which makes it difficult even for neutrons to leave the material without numerous collisions with the deuterons. Mean free paths as short as 150 nm even for 14 MeV neutrons can be calculated. It is also possible that other nuclear processes but normal D + D fusion dominate. By selecting the layer thickness correctly, it is however possible to observe ejected 4 He and 3 He after collisions with D clusters by time-of-flight.

@Longview: it looks like the default number of comments per page was changed to 15 at some point. You can increase this limit, but unintuitively, the setting for this in the user control panel is labeled "posts per page", not "messages per page". 30 is twice the default value. Apparently a value of 15 cannot be manually selected except by choosing "default".

@me356: with the nickel wire in contact with the alumina tube like that, would you be interested checking out (even in air) if at a sufficiently high temperature the alumina tube becomes electrically conductive enough so that the apparent resistance of the wire visibly changes? You might be potentially having a sort of Nernst Lamp at high temperature and I think this effect could be exploited in interesting ways (I would think this would happen especially if the LiAlH4 attacks the surface of the tube).

@axil: apparently - although for different reasons - some amount of carbon is also needed on the surface of K/Fe2O3 catalysts (as used by Holmlid) for them to properly work, so you might have a point on russian Ni powder relatively being rich in carbon possibly having a role in this. Having small clusters of carbon on the surface reportedly enhances the capability of the material of desorbing atomic hydrogen from it.

Also see the analysis of Parkhomov's Ni powder from Kiva Labs (Edmund Storms) here - 6% carbon by weight was seen on the analyzed surface. Holmlid solves this issue by applying a layer of colloidal graphite on the catalyst ("emitter") before running his experiments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquadag . Perhaps it could be used in these Rossi replications as well.

Quote from axil

Try to coat your SS surface with a layer of soot from a candle. Lithium might not penetrate the soot because soot repels liquids of all sorts.

See my post above on this thread on THE DEPOSITION OF PYROLYTIC GRAPHITE.

I think heating a hydrocarbon gas such as methane as suggested in the paper might be a more efficient idea than using soot from a candle. Thermal decomposition of the gas above 500-600°C will cause carbon deposits, provided that the initial atmosphere is oxygen-free. Pyrolysis of light hydrocarbons is often employed for the synthesis of filamentous carbon (nanotubes), by the way.

Quote from me356

In my another reactor with the heater inside I also plan to replace the nickel with palladium.
This could be very interesting. The only problem is price. I have already ordered Palladium wire, so hopefully in 2 weeks it could arrive.
I will also play with Titanium Hydride soon.

If you are attempting to tackle this the "loading way" it might indeed be more interesting than with pure nickel. You would have to take into account that more hydrogen in the system will be needed.

I still don't think this is the best approach, though.

I've been thinking a bit about the role of Lithium in these experiments in light of AlanG's findings and existing information in the literature that it can corrode nickel metal severely (see his comment on ECW).

I believe that in addition of having the role of a quickly reversible hydride and possibly lowering the surface work function of existing potentially active particles in the reaction environment, it might have the same penetrating role of hydrogen in the case of Palladium cathodes in Pd-D experiments.

Palladium metal is sort of special in that in can absorb about 900 times its own volume of hydrogen [source]. This can extensive alter its lattice and eventually form the proper nanovacancies needed for excess heat to be able to appear (whatever its true nature).

Nickel on the other hand, although will slowly deteriorate and embrittle over long term hydrogen exposure, can't absorb much hydrogen. It's thus expected that unless further treatment is performed, much time would be required for this process to spontaneously occur.

What if Lithium, as a penetrating corrosive agent (especially in the case of Nickel), is accelerating the embrittlement/corrosion process so that eventually, yet at a quicker rate than normal, the right nanoscale structures can appear on the metal?

I've been collecting a few links and paper references indicating that thermal anomalies, oscillations and runaway do seem to be happening in hydrogenation catalytic beds in the oil processing industry, and that this has been documented for quite some time, even before cold fusion claims. Several explanations have been provided for this phenomenon, which still remains not very well understood. I find quite plausible that LENR processes could be involved and that heterogeneous catalysts are the key for obtaining them. These hydrogenation bed reactors usually include metallic Pd, Pt, Ni catalysts on ceramic supports, or potassium-promoted iron oxide catalysts.

Robert Godes of Brillouin Energy Visits Finnish Officials and Statoil in Norway
Is rust a good candidate for runaway LENR?
Self-sustained oscillations of temperature and conversion in a packed bed microreactor during 2-methylpropene (isobutene) hydrogenation
Thermal oscillations during the catalytic hydrogenation of nitrobenzene

Critical Phenomena in Trickle-Bed Reactors
OSCILLATIONS OF CATALYTIC ACTIVITY IN HYDROGENATION OF ETHYLENE ON Ni-Al2O3
Oscillatory behavior of the ethylene hydrogenation reaction at high temperatures over nickel catalyst in the presence of an applied magnetic field

Rust Catalyzed Ethylene Hydrogenation causes Temperature Runaway
How to Prevent Runaways in Trickle-Bed Reactors for Pygas Hydrogenation
http://www.sciencedirect.com/s…cle/pii/S0167299197800213
CFD study of an evaporative trickle bed reactor: Mal-distribution and thermal runaway induced by feed disturbances

Yesterday I posted this comment on ECW on my view about Pd-D cold fusion experiments:

Quote

[...] What I'm saying is that a lump of solid Pd metal by itself isn't going to work off the bat unless its lattice structure gets heavily modified. In cold fusion experiments like the ones by DeChiaro (as reported on ECW this is usually performed through deuterium loading and electrolysis over prolonged periods of time. This process can radically alter the lattice and with much luck eventually produce the nano vacancies needed for excess heat production.
Alloying Pd with a different metal might further increase chances that right vacancies form in the process, but it still might not be enough.

What Leif Holmlid's research suggests is that by employing a prepared (or commercially available) heterogeneous catalyst one might be able to produce Rydberg Matter Hydrogen (possibly the culprit for excess heat in cold fusion experiments) reproducibly. Besides using potassium-iron oxide catalysts, he suggests in his patent that metallic catalysts could also be used. These usually include a dense micro/nano dispersion of a reactive metal (like Pd) on a porous ceramic support like alumina for structural stability and increased area, so they might already have the needed nano vacancies from the get-go.

It seems therefore possible that one could shortcut the entire loading and electrolysis process with pure metals by using a properly prepared catalyst. Some (like iron oxide Fischer-Tropsch/Styrene catalysts) might work better than others.

My opinion is overall growing stronger towards this effect being a result of unexplained phenomena which have already been occurring in catalysis in certain fields.

I believe that Leif Holmlid's observations, experiments and theories would be consistent with this view and with most LENR experiments, perhaps including also those occurring in a dusty plasma.

@axil: more simply explained, I believe this means Holmlid collected on an Iridium foil the ultra-dense deuterium generated by the iron oxide catalyst (placed in pieces inside a steel tube providing a flow of D2 gas), and used the Nd:YAG laser pointed on it instead of directly on the catalyst as he did in previous experiments. A very simple diagram:

EDIT
axil: as for the other paper, I remember reading it some time ago. I'm not sure I'm competent enough to have an opinion it, but it looks like they ran computer simulations at 0K and found out that potassium-promoted iron oxide catalysts have unexplored properties that can be useful in catalysis. They haven't investigated yet whether the formation of Rydberg states is theoretically possible (at least according to computational models) but they are not ruling it out. I don't think this paper is exceedingly relevant in this case. I also remember reading in a couple of Holmlid's papers that too much potassium content in the catalyst can interfere with Hydrogen Rydberg Matter production, and that some amount of carbon on the surface is needed for the catalyst to efficiently function. See [excerpt 1] and [excerpt 2]. Are they modeling this too?

Sources (paywalled):
1) http://iopscience.iop.org/arti…C7E719C6F500936A1CB75A.c1
2) http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ef050172n

Quote from Eric Walker

For some time Rossi worked with Focardi, and Focardi worked with Piantelli at one point. Piantelli has been pursuing nickel since at least the early 90's. What you say may be true, but absent further information, I'm guessing Rossi has been working with nickel since he started collaborating with Focardi, or perhaps even earlier, as nickel was kind of an Italian thing.

Even if there are reports that thermal anomalies have been occurring in the same catalytic reactions in oil refining processes that Rossi might have been working with for years? And even if incidentally the analyses in the OP show no nickel being present in relevant amounts but rather likely one of the catalysts involved in those reactions? Rossi might have started using Nickel later on, but possibly not in the way most other researchers have been so far.

Quote

There is evidence that impurities are possibly important, e.g., as summarized in Ed Storms's reviews.

I'm not implying that impurities did not have had a role in Pd-D experiments for obtaining some sort of reproducible effect, but rather that for hydrogen in order to penetrate into the bulk (absorption) dissociation at the surface of the metal upon adsorption must take place. If the surface of the metal, in addition of being nano/microstructured, is also free of impurities, this spontaneous process will occur more easily.

However, my conclusion (and Holmlid's) is also that materials catalyzing the H2 → 2H reaction are desirable. The critical impurities in Pd-D experiments might have been operating towards that goal.

@axil: could you please indicate where iridium is being mentioned in the context of these iron oxide catalysts? As fas as I'm aware of, the inert binder/support is usually composed of one or more oxides of chromium, aluminium or silicon. Iridium-based dehydrogenation catalysts do exist in commerce, but iridium replaces the iron oxide there. According to Holmlid the reaction can take place with different dehydrogenation catalysts. See paragraph 11 here in his patent application:

https://www.google.com/patents/EP2680271A1

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[0011] A "hydrogen transfer catalyst" is any catalyst capable of absorbing hydrogen gas molecules (H2) and dissociating these molecules to atomic hydrogen, that is, catalyze the reaction H2 → 2H. The name hydrogen transfer catalyst implies that the so-formed hydrogen atoms on the catalyst surface can rather easily attach to other molecules on the surface and thus be transferred from one molecule to another. The hydrogen transfer catalyst may further be configured to cause a transition of the hydrogen into the ultradense state if the hydrogen atoms are prevented from re-forming covalent bonds. The mechanisms behind the catalytic transition from the gaseous state to the ultra-dense state are quite well understood, and it has been experimentally shown that this transition can be achieved using various hydrogen transfer catalysts, including, for example, commercially available so-called styrene catalysts, as well as (purely) metallic catalysts, such as Iridium and Palladium. It should be noted that the hydrogen transfer catalyst does not necessarily have to transition the hydrogen in the gaseous state to the ultra-dense state directly upon contact with the hydrogen transfer catalyst. Instead, the hydrogen in the gaseous state may first be caused to transition to a dense state H(1), to later spontaneously transition to the ultra-dense state H(-1). Also in this latter case has the hydrogen transfer catalyst caused the hydrogen to transition from the gaseous state to the ultra-dense state.

On a related note, it turns out that nickel is among the metals which are corroded the most in liquid lithium, so I guess one should expect extensive modifications up to the bulk upon high temperature exposure. Perhaps this is important in preparing the reaction in Rossi's case.

https://books.google.com/books?id=tfDwOe7xWeQC&pg=PA427&lpg=PA427&dq=nickel+%22liquid+lithium%22+corrosion&source=bl&ots=gBUlug-NXp&sig=Uowi03czk82sWhmu2pmABRdhsjs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAGoVChMIoqOC16yuyAIVgW4aCh1hnwOB#v=onepage&q=nickel %22liquid lithium%22 corrosion&f=false

http://i.imgur.com/RVJm4Qz.jpg

Alan Goldwater posted a related observation on E-Cat World at about the same time I wrote this comment:
http://www.e-catworld.com/2015…age-1/#comment-2293204720

@goax: thanks to you but please don't expect a scientific treatise on why LENR occurs. It's really just putting the dots together using existing information.

As for Rossi's analyses the point is that even if they have been completely made up, using a commercially available Fischer-Tropsch iron catalyst would be consistent with the initial claims of using some sort of compound able to readily split molecular hydrogen, more than just plain nickel powder. Even Francesco Celani's nanostructured Constantan wire efforts have been mainly towards achieving that goal (Ni-Cu alloys apparently have good hydrogen dissociation properties). Leif Holmlid's experiments primarily use one of these commercially available potassium/iron oxide dehydrogenation catalysts as well. There is likely more to it (eg alkali metal preferably used as an "electronic promoter"), but I don't think that making one of these experiment work is supposed to be a very complex task - once what is actually needed is understood.

As Rydberg Matter/ultra-dense hydrogen in Leif Holmlid's case is observed on the catalyst and on surfaces on the catalyst's proximity after a stream of molecular hydrogen is admitted through it, for all intents and purposes this can be seen as a "failed" atomic hydrogen recombination producing something else than normally expected. According to Holmlid's research this special form of hydrogen is relatively stable if left undisturbed, which can explain "heat after death" observations in LENR experiments.

"Loading" or absorption appears to be more or less irrelevant if an "active" surface able to produce excess heat is formed or already exists. and actually Edmund Storms also thinks the same according to the conclusions of his recent work he posted on his blog a few days ago (see point 1).

If "loading" is pretty much irrelevant and if something indeed happens during atomic hydrogen recombination from certain surfaces, then this can also explain the need for a flux on hydrogen on the active material which other researchers often recommended (like Piantelli) and that experimenters like me356 found out being possibly important for generating thermal anomalies. Francesco Celani also highlighted this in his ICCF19 paper (see point 9/conclusions).

Overall, my opinion is that if you start seeing LENR as actually (albeit indirectly) occurring as a result of atomic hydrogen recombination and needing specific nanostructured catalytic surfaces you will realize that there are many more things in common among apparently completely different experiments than it looks at first.

(btw, this message was more or less an excuse for writing more ideas to potentially add in the document)

I'm currently in the process of assembling in a single coherent document most of the information and comments written in this thread and related ones elsewhere (included those I unfortunately deleted). It's not really a scientific paper, but it proposes a hopefully easily testable hypothesis for excess heat production and anomalous radiation emission. Would this abstract make sense to any of you?

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ABSTRACT: Indications are that Andrea Rossi used a Fischer-Tropsch iron oxide catalyst as a “fuel” in early E-Cat experiments. Regardless of this being true or not, reports of anomalous thermal events from hydrogenation beds in the oil industry and hints from various experiments and observations by independent researchers give support to the hypothesis that LENR effects can arise when atomic hydrogen recombines after desorption from efficient dehydrogenation catalysts like those used in oil refining processes. The electronic configuration of the surface of these catalysts probably interferes with the recombination process and eventually causes compact hydrogen species to form (i.e. Rydberg Matter), which can spontaneously engage in nuclear reactions.

@axil: most ceramics are probably incompatible with liquid elemental (pure) lithium. This includes yttria, zirconia and likely mixtures thereof. See this from the previously linked document:

@axil: I'm not saying that the ash has been planted. If the tube walls/the inner surfaces of the ceramic tube are producing Rydberg Matter hydrogen/ultra-dense hydrogen, it can also be expected that the contents of the tube will react with it.

More generally speaking, I'm saying that it's probably best to not read the Lugano report too literally. For example Lithium/LAH will react completely with the alumina as replicators found out after much time and countless efforts, yet according to the report apparently this was perfectly fine in the Lugano reactor. At the very least this means there is more than meets the eye.

Nobody ever said before that Rossi at some point used a Fischer-Tropsch iron dehydrogenation catalyst with no nickel either. Rossi actually told Krivit that the analyses were supposed to show changes in Nickel isotope distribution and copper transmutation.

@axil: I think it's best to leave Lugano alone for now. I believe at some point we will find out that it worked in a completely different way than previously thought, like for example that the active material was the ceramic tube itself (à la Nernst Lamp) and not the powder contained inside of it.

@Chuck: I'm not an expert either, I'm just collating the information I've been finding so far. I believe we are closer to that goal, or at least to a better understanding. In my non-expert opinion, LENR is a catalytic, surface phenomenon which can occur when atomic hydrogen desorbs from the active material, not when is ad/absorbed as commonly thought. A nanostructured catalytic material with a low surface work function is preferably needed. Potassium-promoted iron oxide catalysts such as the ones highlighted in this thread seem to be ideal, but different ones could be used as well. Alkali (potassium/potassium oxide in this case) promotion enhances catalytic activity and is most likely also instrumental in decreasing the work function of the material's surface.

@LENR Calender: actually it's almost 6 years old data!