A simplified theory of LENR

  • As I understand it, Ed Storms views quantum mechanics as an abstraction that has gone too far to be useful. He sees it as an overgeneralization of messy data, and as a model that is unnecessarily complex, and, in its complexity, as something that is confusing people and leading them down unpromising avenues in trying to understand LENR. This prompts Ed to view attention given to quantum mechanics in trying to understand LENR as putting the cart before the horse. He would prefer that we look at the experimental data, draw the conclusions he draws, and then possibly reformulate quantum mechanics as a result once we have a fuller picture of the situation. Up to now I hope I have not said anything Ed would disagree with, although it's hard to know for sure.


    As for my own view of Ed's effort, it seems to me that his theory is incompatible with the present understanding of quantum mechanics in various ways. One way has to do with the slow fusion he proposes. Assume for the sake of argument, as Ed does, that it is possible for deuterons to shed off mass-energy in small quanta as they approach one another in the hydroton molecule. In a nuclear context, photons are normally emitted when there is a rearrangement of nucleons into lower energy states of the nucleus. If we take Ed's theory at face value, the implication is either that there are many more levels available for the proton and neutron in the deuterons to settle into than previously known, or the concept of levels must be abandoned altogether. In the first case, the nuclear shell model is no longer relevant. In the second case, quantum mechanics is no longer relevant.


    Another possibility here is that the nucleons (protons and neutrons) that make up the deuterons themselves are what are doing the shrinking and emitting the photons. This is in fact what I presume would be needed in the case of another process Ed suggests, in which two protons combine with an electron to make deuterium, for in the case of a proton, the proton is itself the nucleus which is yielding the photons. My understanding is that this stuff is in the realm of sci-fi. Jones Beene has colorfully explored the possibility that the rest mass of protons is not fixed on Vortex in recent years.


    Another way that Ed's theory is incompatible with the present understanding of quantum mechanics has to do with the last stretch that must be crossed when the deuterons finally combine into 4H (and from there, 4He). As the deuterons get closer and closer, the cross section for normal (hot) fusion increases dramatically, at which point you'd expect the d(d,p)t, d(d,n)3He and d(d,G)4He branches, including neutrons and gammas, short-circuiting the slow fusion process before the two deuterons have approached sufficiently to shed only low-energy photons. This is my schematic understanding, drawing upon observations by people far more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am. To get what Ed wants, somehow the cross sections for the hot fusion branches must be zeroed-out in the context of the hydroton, so that the quantum mechanical process of the two deuterons tunneling together does not happen until the very last moment, at which point all the 24 MeV of mass energy will have been shed.


    Another way that Ed's theory is incompatible with the present understanding of quantum mechanics has to do with the holding of the electrons between the deuterons sufficient for there to be screening of the kind Ed would like. Those electrons want to go all over the place, and under normal circumstances they would not want to maintain a narrow holding pattern between the deuterons.


    One might suspect that Ed's theory is incompatible with the present understanding of quantum mechanics in connection with the conservation of spin as the low-energy photons are emitted, but I think there are some clever gymnastics that can be done to rescue things, even if they don't sound particularly plausible.


    If we lump concerns about the operation of the strong interaction and the weak interaction under quantum mechanics, there are yet other questions that come up. This is my layman's understanding of the situation.

  • The hot tamale in quantum mechanics is entanglement. Usually, this state is achieved when all the quantum objects reduce to the same base energy state. This is thermalization. In low temperature physics experiments, this is famously done at a temperature close to absolute zero, when all energy is removed from a system and all its elements reduce to their base energy state.


    But their is another route to entanglement that happens in LENR. This state can happen at any temperature. This special process is synchronization, usually of dipole vibrations.


    Disorder, synchronization and phase locking in non-equilibrium Bose-Einstein condensates
    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.05264v1.pdf



    LENR is full of quantum mechanics, and the key is the production of a Bose-Einstein condinsate at any temperature no matter how high. If all the elements in a system oscillate at the same rate in sync, then a bose-condinsate will form that cover those elements. Elements that have a strong connection to each other will share energy very well and they will eventually march to the same drummer.


    Here is an example of synchronization of oscillating elements.

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    In this metronom example, the shared energy path is through the vibrations in the foam platform that the metronomes are standing on. In LENR the communications between quantum elements are done through EMF.


    Bose condensation of force carriers is what gives a single element immense power just through the force of numbers. A drop of water will become fearsome and powerful when it joins with countless numbers of it kind to form an ocean. A collection of very small things though insignificant when standing alone, but when grouped together their power becomes irresistible and unstoppable just by the sheer force of numbers. The immense power that LENR needs to function is produced in this way

  • axil. One of the greatest proponents of coherence being the cause of LENR was the late Giuliano Preparata. However he never demonstrated that the PdD lattice actually was coherent. If it had been there would be major anomalies in its specific heat etc.,


    Preparata was honest enough to realize that not even coherence was enough to enhance fusion rates. He additionally required so called potential wells, 80-100 eV deep, to force naked deuterons close together. But any such wells would also attract positive helium nuclei even more strongly. As helium does not bind to palladium we can be sure the wells do not exist.


    Coherence, by definition, is an ordered state. Thermodynamics requires that the spontaneous creation of ordered states requires the simultaneous release of heat. Conversely heating will tend to destroy coherence. But experimentally we observe a positive correlation of anomalous power with temperature, exactly the opposite of what coherence predicts. I think the coherent class of LENR explanations doesn't hold up to scrutiny.


    Invoking coherence is just one way of overcoming the Coulomb barrier. Other ways include muon catalyzed fusion, deep Dirac levels, Storm's electron screening etc. The important point to note is that the Coulomb barrier is not eliminated completely. There must still be QM tunneling. That being the case we expect the p-d->3He reaction to dominate (almost) regardless of hydrogen isotope ratios (due to the low reduced mass). We don't see the expected 3He so we know that LENR does NOT result from the mutual approach of hydrogen nuclei.

    • Official Post

    @ericbelistan
    The theory of ed Storms have a missing piece : how the energy of a fusion involving 3 bodies can be dissipated by small quanta.


    I disagree that it is incompatible quit standard model, but it is clear that today we nee no mechanism to do it.
    as Bill Collis explains well, 3 body reaction is nearly impossible and incompatible with the high cross section... so what, it is thus a multi-stage process, or involving pseudo-particles made of many bodies, interacting two by two...
    There is a missing mechanism, that looks like nuclear isomeric transition, but out of the nucleus, and involving coherent groups of particles.
    It is no more unbelievable than was cooper pairs for someone in the 1950s, and BCS theory is using pre-standard model of QM, not breaking it. the novelty is not in the core standard model of QM, but in the way known interactions can make emerge superstructures like cooper pairs, superfluid, superconduction...


    Edmund storms is not yet a theory, it is not yet finished, it is a direction.
    the direction is :

    • keep standard model and thermodynamic
    • propose a single mechanism to explain most of replicated results
    • accept and unknown around collective QM

    the last point, is something that should call for more studies, not plain rejection...


    Anyway Bill Collis direction, of an exotic neutral particle, is to be investigated too...


    What is clear is that it you refuse to abandon standard model, the only solution is to introduce pseudo-particles in a context of collective QM, what Lucan Gamberalle calls CQUED, Collective-Quantum-Electro-Dynamic... This is a frontier of science that is promising, rich, wide, more than the one CERN is trying to establish with LHC.

  • What is clear is that it you refuse to abandon standard model, the only solution is to introduce pseudo-particles in a context of collective QM, what Lucan Gamberalle calls CQUED, Collective-Quantum-Electro-Dynamic...


    This isn't clear in the slightest. I think there's room within the standard model and QM to explain LENR. By contrast, coherent behavior in the context of a hot metal seems entirely implausible, almost as implausible as a pseudoparticle involving several particles gradually shedding off mass energy.

  • axil. Thanks for editing your post above.


    Regarding MFMP, I would be more convinced if their "Live Open Science" actually resulted in published scientific papers. A little more rigor and a bit less over-enthusiasm might pay dividends. Anyway, please give a reference to their gamma measurement(s).

  • Quote

    Ed Storms views quantum mechanics as an abstraction that has gone too far to be useful. He sees it as an overgeneralization of messy data, and as a model that is unnecessarily complex, and, in its complexity, as something that is confusing people and leading them down unpromising avenues in trying to understand LENR.



    Wow wow wow. People, who do not know anything about quantum mechanics and the physics behind, mourn, that lenr cannot be explained by the existent quantum physics ?
    That is a really bad argument. If any known, and respected scientist would have proven, that any lenr reaction does exist reliably, this would surely be worth examining and then it would be explained.





    axil.

    Quote

    LENR is full of quantum mechanics, and the key is the production of a Bose-Einstein condinsate at any temperature no matter how high. If all the elements in a system oscillate at the same rate in sync, then a bose-condinsate will form that cover those elements. Elements that have a strong connection to each other will share energy very well and they will eventually march to the same drummer.


    Entanglement is everywhere in nature, it is an fundamental property of subatomic particles. Macroscopic reproduction by a bose-einstein-condensate is a man made simulation of it, and will usually not occurr under normal conditions in our everyday life, and FUR SURE NOT in any LENR, as either pressure nor temperature will not allow it.
    Furthermore, coherence is only possible, if You assume no interaction. Tell me, where in nature this is possible...


    As long, as some strange, nothing telling pics are posted by Rossi, no well known physicist wll ever dare to kill his reputation when trying to do serious science about LENR.

  • Preparata was honest enough to realize that not even coherence was enough to enhance fusion rates. He additionally required so called potential wells, 80-100 eV deep, to force naked deuterons close together.


    Japanese QM calculations with a 2x2 cell did show, that the introduction of Ca++ as a point of grid disturbance can leave an approximative 200eV hole, after Ca++ was moving away! Keep this figure as a guess only, because a 2x2 cell is a rudimentary aproximation.

  • Wyttenbach. These calculations (200 eV) have nothing to say about spontaneous events which take place in lattice chemistry. These energies are far beyond chemistry. I repeat, if they actually could exist then even very inert helium could fall into the well (and be ionized). Such helium binding has never been observed. In fact there are no chemical reactions of neutral substances which yield > 10 eV.

  • These calculations (200 eV) have nothing to say about spontaneous events which take place in lattice chemistry.


    This is obvious as we are talking about a physical phenomena, the NAE of LENR. 200eV is the increase of the lattice energy, if we introduce one Ca++ into a standard cell. This ballpark figure is interesting, because around 200eV are need to induce LENR reactions...

  • axil. Thanks for editing your post above.


    Regarding MFMP, I would be more convinced if their "Live Open Science" actually resulted in published scientific papers. A little more rigor and a bit less over-enthusiasm might pay dividends. Anyway, please give a reference to their gamma measurement(s).


    Here is a reference about the signal and a thread that contained it. The signal is shown at 7:54 to avoid MFMP beta decay explanation.


    Implications of Signal, Seeing into the Cat with X-Rays - Video from MFMP

  • A magnetic monopole has been built using a superfluid via a Bose condinsate


    A monopole with some properties of a magnetic monopole has been built. Did they say something about the mass? (A "real" magnetic monopol should have?)


    Really? Well I never knew that. I thought 200 eV could induce hot fusion reactions!


    Whether we call it "hot fusion"/LENR makes no difference. But up to now three reactions run in these regions. "hot Li fusion" with 226eV, Mizuno PtNiLiCuCa nanopowder and Mill's "hyrino" process (Which also is hot fusion, if we look at the ignition energy).
    Until recently hot fusion started at about some keV... (Remember the race for HT-superconductors?)

  • A monopole with some properties of a magnetic monopole has been built. Did they say something about the mass? (A "real" magnetic monopol should have?)



    Whether we call it "hot fusion"/LENR makes no difference. But up to now three reactions run in these regions. "hot Li fusion" with 226eV, Mizuno PtNiLiCuCa nanopowder and Mill's "hyrino" process (Which also is hot fusion, if we look at the ignition energy).
    Until recently hot fusion started at about some keV... (Remember the race for HT-superconductors?)


    Using track lengths in photographic emulsions from LENR ash, the monopole has a mass as follows


    |m0 | = 7.29 × 10^6GeV /c2 and a magnetic field of β = 1.83 × 10^7 .




    My interpretation of these tracks is as follows:


    The bose condinsate stays in place after the LENR reaction polariton pumping is terminated. The polariton condinsate is losing energy but still has residual stored energy remaining. A single element(polariton) is still entangled with the BEC but becomes free ranging and moves over the photoemission where it interacts with the silver particles therein. The energy from the BEC is channeled to the polariton via entanglement to interact with the photo-emulsion particles through superradiance. In other words, the single polariton becomes a conduit for all the residual energy stored in the BEC. By counting the emulsion particles effected by the polariton energy release, it is possible to measure that residual energy content of the BEC via the polariton chemical activity(surface-enhanced Raman scattering (SERS) ) with fair accuracy.

  • By counting the emulsion particles effected by the polariton energy release, it is possible to measure that residual energy content of the BEC via the polariton chemical activity(surface-enhanced Raman scattering (SERS) ) with fair accuracy.


    The question has two parts, the energy (mass) of the monopole is one answer. The other question is how much energy can be stored in a nano powder surface of typical size 2..10 nanometers. To my understanding we find maximally 1000..10000 atoms/surface. I cannot see how such a surface should store the proposed amount of energy, except you believe energy is continuously pumped into an emerging pseudo particle...(The Axil electronic tornado model?)


    You should also not forgett: The pseudoparticle has to conserve the angular momentum! which would be very high for a real monopol of that weight.

  • The question has two parts, the energy (mass) of the monopole is one answer. The other question is how much energy can be stored in a nano powder surface of typical size 2..10 nanometers. To my understanding we find maximally 1000..10000 atoms/surface. I cannot see how such a surface should store the proposed amount of energy, except you believe energy is continuously pumped into an emerging pseudo particle...(The Axil electronic tornado model?)


    SPPs form inside nano-cavities and between nanoparticles. Each SPP is composed of a dipole (Exciton)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exciton


    and an entangled photon soliton inside a whispering gallery wave(WGW). As photon energy is increased inside the WGW, the frequency increases until it hits the x-ray range. The Exciton and the WGW can be physically separated by are quantum mechanically entangled.



    The dipole Energy is stored in both SPP components. Energy is feed into this system by pumping, through heat excitation of the dipoles or direct EMF stimulation. In a nickel microparticle that has been properly prepared, it is very porous and may contain millions of nanocavities. The biggest such particle as defined in by Rossi's patent is 100 microns. The smallest is 1 micron. In total there might be a few billion SPPs possible formation locations inside microcavities and between nanoparticles in the nickel powder. Each SPP location can support a EMF power concentration of between 10^15 and 10^20 watts/cm2 for a .5 gram of nickel.




    Quote

    You should also not forget: The pseudoparticle has to conserve the angular momentum! which would be very high for a real monopole of that weight.



    The Bose condensate forms a single combined super SPP based on quantum mechanical superradiance.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superradiance


    The BEC acts as a single analog monopole particle whose energy content is the square root of the total amount[/u] of energy stored in the condinsate.


    The SPP converts the spin of all the accumulated photons in the SPP Soliton into a unified common spin element(rotational superradiance - https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9803033) as a anapole monopole spin field. The condensate of SPPs combines that spin into a single global spin element for the combined SPP condinsate assemblage of all SPPs condensate subelements similar to how a laser photon pulse is formed inside a crystal. In effect, the SPP condinsate becomes a magnetic laser.

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