Quote from RobertBryant

n Japan PM Abe appears to be frustrated with the progess of Avigan

The problem with Avigan is the lack of patients. to trial the drug on..

earliest date for trial completion is now the end of August

whereas Russia pushed through trials much faster..

"don't want to politicise" .. start date was June 11 in Russian hospitals..

Quote from oldguy

Avigan, is being tested in Massachusetts and is "showing exciting" results

Hopefully Avigan works... one good thing is that a cheap generic version is being manufactured now.. with aid of Russian capital

In Japan PM Abe appears to be frustrated with the progess of Avigan

TOKYO -- When Prime Minister Shinzo Abe learned that the Avigan flu medicine would not be approved for the coronavirus by the end of May, he was furious. "That's not what I was told," he lashed out at aides.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politi…ed-way-for-Avigan-blunder

however in Russia the approval process has been more rapid..less checks and balances there,, but then there are more deaths ihan in Japan

"Russia’s health ministry recently approved a new anti-viral drug for COVID-19 called Avifavir

https://www.trialsitenews.com/…s-to-supply-saudi-arabia/

Quote from Paradigmnoia

The blower current error is possibly bigger, ,I do the same

I do the same... truncation?

possibly bigger, :What is your expected P/p based on a 5 sided die?  0.007+/-.0013 ?

Paradigmnoic non sequitur/segue? Intelligent or not?

Quote from THHuxleynew

showed pretty conclusively that this guy is has way out opinions... pretty conclusive

THH.. which guy?

Etienne ?

pretty conclusive ? 95% probability?

way out ? 5% probability?

Quote from THHuxleynew

This is a pretty exact analogy for genetic evolution.

The wandering evolutionary dialectic is interesting.. I must say

Actually a more relevant analogy from the LENR forum concerns the Ascoli65 insertion hypothesis.

Ascoli65 alleged that Mizuno artificially inserted the heater power readings (P) in a spreadshest

because the deviations .. P/p.. (mutations)

were far more than could be expected from calculation,,

However it was shown by comparing the heater versus blower power readings

that these deviations.. P/p (mutations)

were expected ( "0.007+/-.0013 and 0,0018+-0.0003 ")

from random calculation errors resulting from a global truncation..

In the case of Etienne-Montagnier it might take some time for them

to do comparative probability analysis on Covid-19 versus HIV/SARS/ Influenza A,B,C mutation rates..

where some time = years... as opposed to the hours it took to analyse spreadsheet data.

Phylogenetic study can take years in biology

however hopefully soon (mid June ) the WHO has some HCQ... ivermectin data

to actually alleviate the disease mortality.

Quote from THHuxleynew

RB - I try to give you credit for the ability to appraise other work.

Here is my appraisal of Montagnier's..preprint... https://osf.io/tgw2d/ expressed in simple terms for the benefit of THH..

No probability numbers.. Therefore I cannot compare with Etienne's " absurd.".

Probability is the heart of the matter... and not irrelevant as THH appears to maintain.

Its really up to Etienne and Montagnier to come up with probability numbers which fund their "most likely" and "adsurd"

or perhaps THH our new forum expert on viral genetics..can come up with some number

Etienne .......may be able show that the mutation rates are ..95% ..probable based on random mutation

Montagnier may be able show that the mutation rates are ..5% probable based on random mutation

on the other hand they may not be able to show this at all..

because of the number of variables involved...

In that case ... there is ample space for wordy dialectic and endless fruitless conjecture..until this thread ends

I expect with 99 % probabilty that THH will ONLY be able to show his wordy evolutionary wandering dialectic..

based on the fact that this is ALL he could show in the face of four simple spreadsheet columns of calorimetry data.

with far less variables.. Clearance Items

Montagnier/Perez

..HIV1, HIV2 and SIV retroviruses most likely are present into the genome of COVID19

An analysis of amino acid homologies confirms the very probable insertion of this EIE in COVID_19,

It is very likely that there was HUMAN INTERVENTION in this LYONS's region

Étienne Simon-Lorière

"If we take a word from a book and that word resembles that of another book, can we say that one has copied from the other?”Its's absurd

https://www.lepoint.fr/sante/e…17-04-2020-2371881_40.php

Quote from THHuxleynew

So discussion of probability of this while interesting is irrelevant to the pro-lab vs pro-nature debate.

Probability is at the heart of the matter..THH..

just as it is with the Ascolian statisitcs you found so convincing.

Ascoli .. alleged Mizunoian insertion with unclear probabilty.... however the probablity of Rothwelllian truncation cooresponded with the actual mutation rate of the data.

Numbers ended that Ascolian -THH wordy foolishness.

You are implying without evidence thatt these two scenarios have comparablr probablities... this may be true.. or not.

Please power up your assertion with numbers rather than words.

Quote from THHuxleynew

It is called insertion (small bits) or recombination (large bits).

Inesrtion? Recombination?

Rather than repeating defintions that I learned 50 years ago ....You might read the preprint... and look into mutation rates... whether these are likely to explain the Covid-19 code vairiations.

https://osf.io/tgw2d/

as welll as some more light reading.

https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcent…es/10.1186/1471-2148-4-21

https://www.sciencedirect.com/…cle/pii/S0042682209007806

https://journals.plos.org/plos…1371/journal.pbio.2006459

https://jvi.asm.org/content/84/19/9733

BTW Actually Felix Bast links teleportation..not me ...

I say..please edit that THH as you say here

"PS - if I've misrepresented any part of the dialog here my apologies, just say and I'll edit this post."

Quote from JohnDuffield

I enjoyed watching that. Thanks Rob.

I wrote to Ben.. I said i appreciated his honesty...I note that he also tries to find funding for muscular dystrophy..IAI needs to correct the spelling to Allanach.

Quote from THHuxleynew

This is a review of the dialectic

Re: dialectic There is no dialectic .. there is THH creating a dialectic.. the jury has not decided on Montagnier... its a preprint so far

but Zeus quoting Felix Bast on viral genetic is the blind being led by the the blind..

there are science writers like Bast... and....I think Jed's favourite...the guy who spoke to Ed Storm....

and then there are actual scientists who understand their field..

as I have said read the actual stuff

and then comment after reading it

https://osf.io/tgw2d/

I have read it.. and I can't find a simple statement on the probabilty of the natural mutation versus copy and paste.

only something on relative mutation rates.. so for me copy and paste its an interesting idea.. but its not convincing at the 95% LOC.

Re: THH's analytic ..I am dubious ever since his finding of Ascolian statistic as 'convincing' inter alia..

Quote from Zeus46

Come on Robert, a spool of copper wire is conductive, but it doesn't emit electromagnetic waves.

Quote from THHuxleynew

For example, RB links wikipedia on DNA teleportation,

Actually Felix Bast links teleportation..not me ... please correct that THH

. the idea that DNA emits em waves is not silly. what is needed is alternating current

whether the em waves are present.. and if present , what rang eof frequencies, weak or strong ...noise or signal.... is a matter of experiment

Zeus " but it doesn't emit electromagnetic waves." is a belief statement

there was a time when scientists believed that DNA didn't carry information genetic... because it was too simple...!!!!!!!

Never underestimate the complexity of the biologic...

Quote from Zeus46

“If we take a word from a book

If Zeus quotes from a science writer...who is a phylogenist it could be silly

When Felix Bast writes " a silly claim that DNA emits “electromagnetic waves”.""

It is not a silly claim.and neither is it absurd.. though It could still be wrong.

Bast shows that he is not uptodate with electrical research on DNA..

it has been shown that short lengths of DNA need to conduct electrons so that a vital error protection mechanism can work(Barton).. This conduction may occur along the linked pi orbitals of the stacked ATGC bases

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2879062/

and there are quite a few papers like this..

"In this study, AC characterisation of DNA molecular wires, effects of frequency, temperature and UV irradiation on their conductivity is presented. λ-DNA molecular wires suspended between high aspect-ratio electrodes exhibit highly frequency-dependent conductivity that approaches metal-like behaviour at high frequencies (∼MHz). Detailed temperature dependence experiments were performed that traced the impedance response of λ-DNA until its denaturation. UV irradiation experiments where conductivity was lost at higher and longer UV exposures helped to establish that it is indeed λ-DNA molecular wires that generate conductivity. The subsequent renaturation of λ-DNA resulted in the recovery of current conduction, providing yet another proof of the conducting DNA molecular wire bridge. The temperature results also revealed hysteretic and bi-modal impedance responses that could make DNA a candidate for nanoelectronics components like thermal transistors and switches. Further, these experiments shed light on the charge transfer mechanism in DNA. At higher temperatures, the expected increase in thermal-induced charge hopping may account for the decrease in impedance supporting the 'charge hopping mechanism' theory. UV light, on the other hand, causes damage to GC base-pairs and phosphate groups reducing the path available both for hopping and short-range tunneling mechanisms, and hence increasing impedance - this again supporting both the 'charge hopping' and 'tunneling' mechanism theories.

When Étienne Simon-Lorière,' is quoted as saying we take a word from a book.etc stc .. this is very debatable only.. the devil is in the details.

.. so perhaps it might be useful to read the paper about which word.or words .and which sequences are said to be copied ... https://osf.io/tgw2d/

If the word is a sequence of letters beginning "......בְּרֵאשִׁית I would suspect that it comes from the Torah rather than that it created itself randomly from the Koran.

Genesis 1.1Bereshit bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'aretz. בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm

Here is a preprint supporting the engineered Covid-19 hypothesis

It was withdrawn from bioxriv.. with only 3 comments.. none negative.

https://www.biorxiv.org/conten…0.01.30.927871v2.full.pdf

However it still survives on researchgate with 96000 views..

https://www.researchgate.net/p…o-HIV-1-gp120-and-Gag.pdf

"Our analysis of the spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV revealed several interesting findings

: First, we identified 4 unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike glycoprotein that are not present in any other coronavirus reported till date.

To our surprise, all the 4 inserts in the 2019-nCoV mapped to short segments of amino acids in the HIV-1 gp120 and Gag

among all annotated virus proteins in the NCBI database.

This uncanny similarity of novel inserts in the 2019- nCoV spike protein to
HIV-1 gp120 and Gag is unlikely to be fortuitous.

Further, 3D modelling suggests that atleast 3 of the unique inserts which are non-contiguous in the primary protein sequence of the 2019-nCoV
spike glycoprotein converge to constitute the key components of the receptor binding site.

Of note, all the 4 inserts have pI values of around 10 that may facilitate virus-host interactions.

Taken together, our findings suggest unconventional evolution of 2019-nCoV that warrants further investigation. ....

Here is the updated ,2020-05-30 Perez and Montagnier prepint... warning.... heavy reading.... 39 pages.. NPP2 dense physics is simpler!

https://osf.io/tgw2d/

Jean claude Perez § Luc Montagnier - COVID-19, SARS and Bats Coronaviruses Genomes Unexpected Exogenous RNA Sequences

"

To sum up, here are the two main facts which contribute to our hypothesis of a partially synthetic genome:

A contiguous region representing 2.49% of the whole COVID-19 genome of which 40.99% is made up of 12
diverse fragments originating from various strains of HIV SIV retroviruses.
A major part of these 16 EIE already existed in the first SARS genomes as early as 2003.
we demonstrate how and why a new region including 4 HIV1 HIV2 Exogenous Informative Elements radically
distinguishes all COVID-19 strains from all SARS and Bat strains.

. comparative analysis of the SPIKES genes of COVID_19 and Bat RaTG13 demonstrates two abnormal facts:

on the one hand, the insertion of 4 contiguous amino acids in the middle of SPIKE,

on the other hand, an abnormal distribution of synonymous codons in the second half of SPIKE.

Finally the insertion in this region of an EIE coming from a Plasmodium Yoelii gene is demonstrated,

but above all seems to explain the "strategy" pursued by having "artificially" modified

the ratio of synonymcodons / non-synonymous codons in this same region of 1770 COVID_19 SPIKE nucleotides.

Covid-19 appears to be all-natural just as SARS, HIV,SIV and Plasmodium all natural

Quote from Wyttenbach

My tip just kill Montagnier.

Its interesting to see how long this youtube will keep replicating

"In moleular biology today you can make any construction you want" but youtube has limits..

https://www.youtube.com/embed/QXcDIcjPXSc

It is also to be noted that NEJM mentioned Montagnier .. anything to get publicity..or is that just a quirk of the Google search engine

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMp038194

Quote from Zephir_AWT

then their environmental cost must be comparable.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Do you believe that such an energy doesn't load environment

Yes i believe that the environmental damage of coal and oilsand derived electricty far outweighs that of wind derived energy

. unless Zephir intelligience supples numerical data quantifying the environmental damage of wind turbines due to Zephirian embodied energy,,

Zephirian Aspirin-google discourse appears to be endlessly renewable...but appears to have lightweight embodiment.

Quote from Ahlfors

Stephen Horvath:

Stephen Horvath is irrelevant to fusion..

" One of the main challenges will be to find a source of hydrogen.""????????

https://www.newcastleherald.co…rough-could-replace-coal/

Horvath means cheap hydrogen.. since H2O is not scarce

the price of hydrogen is irrlevant to fusion when you achieve ~2000000 eV atom

but the price of H is relevant when you achieve only 5 eV/ atom by combustion..

https://www.newcastleherald.co…rough-could-replace-coal/

Stephen Horvath is aiming to leverage off the new Austrailin dreamtime

"$1.1 billion hydrogen plan, which includes a vision of Australia becoming "the land of cheap and endless energy"."

However I must commend him on his financing tactic.fossil fuel gulit.

"

Star Scientific said it had attracted $85 million in investment.

"We have a unique shareholder base. There are no corporations whatsoever. We have wealthy philanthropic green investors," he said.

"There are a lot of wealthy people and families who have made fortunes in oil and gas. That's the typical shareholder we have.

"A lot of these are people had oil and gas assets handed down to them in the estate of the family. They feel guilty about it and want to do something green."

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Another example: it doesn't matter how cheap aspirin actually is and how little energy

I guess aspirin as not an alternative to fossil fuels. due to its high Zephyrian embodied energy. cost

Quote from rubycarat

What bothers me is that the environmental costs are not shown in the purely financial analysis.

Those environmental costs can be enormous..

I once worked on an opencast coal mining project in a peat swamp called Ohinewai.. which was going to make a huge hole in the ground

next to a major river ... the environmental costs were always downplayed by the dinosaur State Coal engineers.. eventually the dinosaur engineers

became extinct.. the NZ govt sold the assets for the company for a pitttance in 2015.. .. now geothermal steam has replaced coal..

however these dinosaurs still survive in the badlands of Alberta generating a trillion litres of tailings

waste which ther dinosaur brains have no idea how to rehabiltate..

The cost of the cleanup is estimated at 300 billion $... which is not factored into the oil price.

When the dinosaurs become extinct their tailings will remain the same , a Canadian memorial to dinosaur intelligence.

https://www.nationalgeographic…genous-people-fight-back/

Quote from truth

These are only unuseful chatters... the classic routing talking about ITER,

The difference btw BLP and ITER is that ITER makes promises to governments which dutifully dole out funds...lots of them.

Whereas BLP makes promises to investors..

Perhaps 'truth'' is in the USA and is one of those investors..

or is not one, but instead has a vicarious feeling of anger at not enough ROI...

however the US government doles out a lot more for ITER than BLP can dream of

And the US doles out a bit less than Europe,,

THE ROI for both BLP and ITER is zero

Of course being in Oceania far from either BLP or ITER

and never having invested a cent in either

I have this minimal feeling of rage at my undefined ROI., .calculated from zero divided by zero..

Quote from Zephir_AWT

can not imagine how taxpayers could keep price of some raw source down.

Zephir that's the irony,, the Canadain tax paye effectively pays billions to support filthy oild sands exraction

and it reduces the price of oil by a few cents some days...

Certainly if the oil sands effect of reducing oil price exists as you assert ..

it would not exist without huge..Canadian government subsidy..

The current low prices of oil of course are not due to oils sands

https://business.financialpost…as-oilsands-face-shut-ins

• Canadian heavy oil cheaper than a pint of beer as North American demand for fuel plummets
• Aid to oilpatch coming in 'hours, potentially days,' Morneau says, as Alberta braces for severe 5.6% GDP contraction this year
• The world’s on the brink of running out of places to put oil

Energy research firm Wood Mackenzie believes higher cost oil-producing formations

around the world would need to shut in production amid the oil price rout, unlike in 2014 when sub US$35 per barrel Brent oil prices lasted for only one quarter.

These prices are well below the break-even cost for the Canadian oilsands producers, which risks posting massive losses this year as low prices persist.

“Canada’s oilsands are at the upper end of the (cost) curve, even in a benign price environment,” said Fraser McKay, vice-president, upstream at Wood Mackenzie, in a report released Friday.

Quote from Cydonia

suggest postulate tend to discover I think in my opinion, probably

Quote from Cydonia

keys to the coherence of everything.

The probability of me losing even my car keys is fairly high.. on average once per day..

I have no clue about the coherence of everything..

but peut-etre it is good topic for discussion in Paris...

So expert THH has reasons why the experience with HIV is not applicable to SARS MERS?

Quote from THHuxleynew

what experts in coronavirus vaccine development (SARS,MERS, etc) have achieved and learnt, not HIV which is a different type of virus.

and also knowledge of the present efficacy of MERS SARS vaccines..

AFAIK there are none in the field.

THH might take some time to actually read the paper..before commenting on it..

and discover why the endocytosis mechanism is worthy inter alia of

the paper being accepted by Cambridge,org..

"

The SARS-CoV-2 spike is significantly different from any other SARS that we have studied (Lu et al, 2020)

. The additional charge it carries (SARS-CoV-2 S1, isoelectric point (pI) pI=8.24 versus human SARS-CoV S1, pI= 5.67)
will strongly improve the interactions with the receptor C-type lectin tail on CLEC4M/DC-SIGNR, which may, by itself,
mediate the endocytosis of pathogens by acting as an attachment receptor, as happens for a number of other highly
pathogenic viruses such as Ebolavirus, Marburg, HIV-1, Hepatitis C, Measles, human CytoMegalo Virus, Influenza
and others (Marzi et al., 2004; Uniprot – Q9N2X3; Uniprot – Q2NNX6).

Non.. Peut-etre La Miley fait 'le zitter"

However you might discuss with Wyttenbach on his current view of ZBW ,, in Paris

"

An other important deduction, that we can make from our 4D(6D) understanding of space,

is the natural explanation of the Zitterbewegung.

Because almost all nuclei are slightly asymmetric they must compensate their toroidal orbit

by a slight eccentricity.

It looks like 4-He could be one exception, because of its almost complete symmetry.

https://www.researchgate.net/p…context=ProjectUpdatesLog