The ERV data Exhibit is Document 128-01
Paradigmnoia
Member
- Member since Oct 23rd 2015
Posts by Paradigmnoia
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Now that we have some ERV numbers, perhaps we can revisit these images.
What do you suppose this panel is measuring?
Looks like there are 4 active zones, possibly one for each Tiger.
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If the bottom (condensate return) pipe is DN80, then the upper steam pipe cannot be 200 mm.
Simply compare the pipes for scale. The upper steam pipe is also insulated, adding to its apparent diameter.
See portion of image of the Doral Plant supplied by Rossi for the USPTO.
Edit: I copied the return pipe and pasted two copies, one rotated to match the steam pipe angle, for an easier comparison.
(Both have the same scale as the original section.)
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We even have to remember.... the memo stating that pipe size was DN40, does not even designate where the pipe was in the system. Many are simply assuming it is the exit pipe shown in the photo. Can anyone truly confirm that is what Murray was discussing? The pipe could be anywhere in the system, in the container, the exit pipe coming out of the container, a pipe/fitting on the other side of the wall. There can be a DN200 pipe in the container and a DN200 pipe on the other side of the wall, but if there is a single value or small stretch of pipe between the two, that pipe becomes the restrictive element.
The memo probably is referring to that exit pipe. I cannot prove it nor I do not believe you can either. I am just saying that the peanut gallery is stating "We know what is really happening... We know the true pipe size" and yet none has been there, actually seen the facility and have no facts. Murray on the other hand was there, was hired to investigate and ask questions and was in a position to know these things. Which is most likely correct? The peanut gallery or Murray? hmmmmm....
The pipe described as DN40 is also described as being 6 m long on the container side to at least to the Customer wall.
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The 1MW plant had a large number spare units as usual for a plant that must be working 7/7 24h.
According to the Tests Plan, there was to be 4 spare reactors, not 52.
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I will agree that the inside upper steam pipe is probably DN80, at least, under all that insulation. Basically insulation as thick as the pipe diameter.
You can see that same pipe curve and cross the centre of the container in the profile photo of Rossi looking at the rack.
From the 6 m length of pipe that Murray estimates (just to the Customer wall), I would say that agrees with the steam pipe connecting near the middle of the container.
If they actually connected the Customer with a DN40 pipe somehow, we'll find out eventually.
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The third image is the Doral thing, above. The others for example, since we have similar shiny insulation outside both types of containers.
Try this one:
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Of course we have been here before.
Below, the pipes without insulation going to the radiators (probably mostly full of water, see Magic condensate pumps itself uphill against a vacuum )
and then the same pipes with insulation on. So it is possible to have what looks like a substantial pipe size due to insulation.
Keep an eye on those condensate hoses lying on the ground...
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After some discussing the condensers and steam-water, I had a look at the 2011 unit again.
How exactly does the condensate get back into the tanks here? I see no pumps.
(Big black hoses going across and up into to the reservoir from the bottom of the wall, begining from the radiator bottom, first photo.)
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Why is the internal isolation of the steam-pipe (see arrow !!) atleast 25cm thick ???
None of those small reactors were used. But yes, lots of insulation is useful. The below pipe (insulation) is even bigger I think.
(Note the Tigers are in the background)
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Cool. I assumed you were joking about your recursive ray tracer. Get it uploaded!
Edit: You're still joking, right?Sorry, it was on a different machine. Probably should have started this in the Playground, but since I started it here, I will finish it here.
Based on heavy interpretation, due to limited reflection behind the Doral Beast, so some angles may be wrong. Meter seems to be in a low spot...
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I have a preliminary grey logic augmented ray trace render of the view normal to the backside of the container.
But you aren't going to like it...
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Do you have photographs that clearly show the flow meter was installed incorrectly?
My recursive ray tracing program is still chewing on the reflections from the foil on the steam tube. Should have good 3D modeled results for the backside of the red container within a few days...
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But the final report lists 0.0 bars every day.
Do you believe the report that Rossi claims is Penon's?
If that is to be believed then the "vacuum" you claim from a heat exchanger could not be more than
-0.1 bar (g). (Assuming he is using gauge)
If the outlet water is cooled to around 68°C, then the condenser vacuum can be no more than around 0.28 bar absolute (-0.72 bar g) , or the steam cannot be condensed to water.
So, can the condenser actually "suck" the steam in and still condense it, both, if the steam comes out of the Plant at 1 bar g?
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the talk of absolute vacuum is unfounded and just plain stupid
Of course it is. The water would boil on its own well before an absolute vacuum was achieved.
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The heat exchanger can create enough of a vacuum and pressure differential to move the steam from the reactor to the heat exchanger. I'm not the only one stating this. Others on ECW and elsewhere have explained this.
The heat exchanger could make a vacuum upon steam condensation, but if the supply is via a large diameter pipe, the pipe pressure will obtain equilibrium throughout the steam path. Something must restrict the steam flow to the condenser in order to maintain negative pressure on that side. This puts limits on pipe sizes throughout the steam system.
Not the same as plugging numbers in calculator.
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I assume that you mean the atmospheric pressure comes from here:
"You stated that the pressure of the steam that was available to J.M. Products (JMP) was nominally atmospheric pressure (0 kilo Pascals gauge (kPaG) or 14.7 psia)."
-Murray letter, Exhibit 5
(To which there was no reply.)
This is the same source as the 40DN pipe. Why should this document be any more reliable for pressure than pipe sizes?
How does the steam flow anywhere without a pressure differential? How is a large open pipe sufficient to prevent pressure equalization between JMP and the Plant? There must be a local restriction in order to maintain a relative vacuum somewhere, so that steam being made at the the Plant at atmospheric pressure (at a rate of something like 0.7 m^3/s) will move along and not pressurize.
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As far as I'm aware, Penon/Rossi have never claimed such a thing (perfect vacuum). Can you provide a reference?
See the pressure column:
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So the Plant is essentially a giant Drinking Bird ?